View Full Version : Creative Assembly Time Commanders 6: Oct 9th
Lord of the Isles
10-01-2003, 18:33
Every week I've got advance notice of the TC episode on BBC2 from my TV Guide. This week however, it merely describes the 6th TC programme as (not direct quote but from memory): Julius Caesar takes on a Republican army in a fight to rule Rome. WARNING, speculation follows, not hard fact: If I had to guess I'd go for Pharsalus: Caesar with 22k legionaries and 1k cavalry against Pompey with twice as many infantry (legionaries and auxilliaries) and 7k cavalry. Caesar's troops were better quality and he won. But of course, I could be wrong.
Whatever battle it is, it'll be interesting to see Roman v Roman.
One last thing: the standard length of a series on BBC is 6 episodes. Does anyone know for sure if this is the case with TC?
The Blind King of Bohemia
10-01-2003, 18:38
I heard somewhere there were 16 episodes, which will be cool if its the right info. Its the Romans against the Armenians tomorrow night which will be good. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
o_loompah_the_delayer
10-01-2003, 20:03
Hmmm Roman v Roman
anyone read "Asterix the Legionare" when they were a kid? My favourite one after asterix and the Normans.
Legionary 1: shhh there are Romans over there
L2: so waht? we are Romans too
L3: thats waht I hate about civil wars
Ohhh yes, that is my fav Asterix too. It has the most refined humor in my oppinion. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Pharsalus... Didn't Ceasar have more cavalry? I mean 1k vs 7k cavalry, only Alexander faced worse odds than that and won. And these cavalries were supposed to have been equal in terms of equipment.
JANOSIK007
10-02-2003, 00:10
Quote[/b] (o_loompah @ Oct. 01 2003,14:03)]Hmmm Roman v Roman
anyone read "Asterix the Legionare" when they were a kid? My favourite one after asterix and the Normans.
Legionary 1: shhh there are Romans over there
L2: so waht? we are Romans too
L3: thats waht I hate about civil wars
It was actually Asterix and Obelix. They were Gauls not Romans. Very funny indeed. There were movies and cartoons made based on the comic books. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
It makes me laugh just to think about it.
Lord of the Isles
10-02-2003, 00:32
The text in the TV Guide is:
Quote[/b] ]A team of Nottingham University graduates takes control of the republican forces of Rome in a battle against Julius Caesar's rebel army for control of the Roman republic in 48BC.
That sounds like Pharsalus to me. The only other candidate is Dyrrhachium but that was a seige more than a battle. More info at: Battle of Pharsalus (http://heraklia.fws1.com/battles/pharsalus/)
No idea if the troop numbers at that site can be trusted. I found another source that merely says Pompey had a great advantage in cavalry. Casear seems to have tricked Pompey's cavalry into engaging with some of his legionaries but another explanation that makes sense to me now is that Caesar had persuaded Asterix and Obelix to fight on his side. Yes, that must have been it. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Knight_Yellow
10-02-2003, 02:03
Quote[/b] (Lord of the Isles @ Oct. 01 2003,18:33)]One last thing: the standard length of a series on BBC is 6 episodes. Does anyone know for sure if this is the case with TC?
to my knowledge a bbc series is 90% of the time longer than 6 series.
dont know where you got from.
Captain Fishpants
10-02-2003, 09:37
There are more than 6 episodes.
The second batch for this series was filmed/taped last week, and even as I type thousands of loyal Lion TV worker bees are covering it in honey and editing the footage. Or something. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Rocket_Boy
10-02-2003, 10:31
Quote[/b] ]There are more than 6 episodes.
The second batch for this series was filmed/taped last week, and even as I type thousands of loyal Lion TV worker bees are covering it in honey and editing the footage. Or something.
Nice any chances of a siege battle or two capt.? I really want to see these.
Hey Capt what happens in the naughty cupboard? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
Captain Fishpants
10-02-2003, 14:06
Quote[/b] (Mak @ Oct. 02 2003,04:43)]Hey Capt what happens in the naughty cupboard? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
Naughtiness. Obviously. In the dark. Unless someone remembers to switch on the light before they go in.
Look, it's a naughty cupboard... how else can I keep people in line when they are badly behaved in my office? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Barkhorn1x
10-02-2003, 14:18
Quote[/b] (Lord of the Isles @ Oct. 01 2003,18:32)]No idea if the troop numbers at that site can be trusted. I found another source that merely says Pompey had a great advantage in cavalry.
More fun w/ numbers….
The site quotes the numbers listed by Caesar himself in his Civil Wars commentary;
Caesar:
22,000 legionaries
1,000 cavalry
Pompey:
45,000 legionaries/light troops
7,000 cavalry
Caesar goes on to state that Pompey had to be almost forced into engaging. IMO, and I’m not alone, the numbers stated by Caesar cannot be easily reconciled with Pompey’s state of mind or the course of the battle. Consider;
1. With a 2:1 advantage in infantry and 7:1 in cavalry why would Pompey be at all reluctant to engage? History shows him to be no coward. I know that the Caesarian army was more experienced but not all of Caesar's troops were veterans and not all of Pompey’s were raw recruits.
2. How could an already heavily outnumbered Caesar afford to strip away 6 cohorts (about 4,000 legionaries) from his third line?
The simple answer is that Caesar is being less than accurate with his numbers. Historian Hans Delbruck believes that Caesar had closer to 30,000 infantry and Pompey about 40,000. Similarly, the numbers of cavalry were probably closer to 2,000 and 5,000 respectively. If these numbers are used then the battle narrative makes much more sense;
a. Pompey was reluctant to engage because he did not enjoy a great superiority in numbers and his army, on the whole, was less experienced than Caesar’s.
b. Caesar was still outnumbered by more than 2:1 in cavalry and so stiffened this wing w/ 4,000 legionaries which he rightly figured would decide the battle in his favor on that wing.
c. His remaining infantry (24,000) were enough to hold off Pompey’s infantry (as some of these were back guarding the Pompeian camp).
A note on ancient sources; Appian, Livy and Plutarch are almost useless as they quote earlier authors – often out of context – and then they make stuff up. Much better are Polybius, Tacitucs and Caesar, but even these have to be treated w/ caution at times. Josephus falls somewhere in between.
Barkhorn.
Bark, that sounds reasonable.
Pompey was a good commander, almost as good as Ceasar, so there is no reason to believe he would have lost with such an advantage in numbers (2:1).
Intrepid Sidekick
10-02-2003, 17:41
The battle, between Romans, that we did for Lion TV was Pharsalus.
I am guessing that will be the battle they show for that episode.
I can't be certain as the Beeb and Lion could change their minds.
On a history note - IIRC - Pompey was unsure of the quality of some of his troops and felt loathe to commit to a battle immediately as he had time on his side.
Dyrrhachium had been a partial victory for Pompey and Caesar had been on the move looking to get away from Pompey.
Caesar was the one who needed to fight. His troops were getting tired. Caesars troops were forraging for food while Pompey was well supplied. Caesar presented himself for battle each day. Pompey declined as he knew he had time.
The Senators with Pompey were however apparently goading him to fight Caesar even though Caesar had the river to one flank and was thus able to defend against the larger force of Pompey. They were over eager as they had won the battle at Dyrrhachium.
Pompey gave in to their demands and the rest is history.
Unfortuneatly we can't be absolutely sure of much as the only surviving eyewitness account is Caesar's http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
Jochi Khan
10-02-2003, 23:54
Before the start of the series it was advertised that there was going to be NINE episodes of Time Commanders.
If there are going to be more to follow, it would be interesting to see if MP players would be given the opportunity to compete http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif
From what I have seen to date, the people taking part do not appear to have much idea about playing this type of game. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif
.......Jochi
todaswarriors
10-03-2003, 00:22
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ....
HeHe....if we played a game on time commanders,they would need to make a new battle for us...or a very hard 1 with active Ai,,
The presenter's would be a quivering mess in the corner,hiding behind a large camera from 1 of orda's or CBR's cav charges. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif imagine a Mizu take over for the evenig...
if we got on that t.v show...we would not be leaving..they would have to find a team to beat us first...
Quote[/b] (Jochi Khan @ Oct. 02 2003,17:54)]Before the start of the series it was advertised that there was going to be NINE episodes of Time Commanders.
If there are going to be more to follow, it would be interesting to see if MP players would be given the opportunity to compete http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif
From what I have seen to date, the people taking part do not appear to have much idea about playing this type of game. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif
.......Jochi
GAH
Who would want to watch that? The principles of Schadenfreude clearly dictate that for 'reality' and 'contest' type shows to succeed, it must bring out the most pathetic losers the producers can find so that we can all get a fix of superiority complex by relishing in the misery and anguish of losers with no socially redeemable skills.
If the show had good players on, it would have been shut down already
Why do youz think Jerry Springer is still on? Because seeing those low-class redneck bottomfeeders slap each other makes the viewer's problems seem miniscule. This brings them comfort and even joy
Thus, Vanya sez... we should bring on even MORE dumb asses to the show. Given them MORE perilous missions.
Give the user the caledonian army, and make them face the Romans... on expert, so the Romans get the morale bonuses and they don't http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif .
VANYA'S TIME COMMANDERS II
The current program (though Vanya has never seen it) is clearly a flawed gem. These changes will make it better and more palatable to the masses. They will bring TV ratings and exposure for the game. And, they adhere to
Schadenfreude.
1) Have a pool of contestants. Do away with "experts"... all they do is talk. Everybody knows American don't know where they are on the map. What makes youz think they know anything about history? Most kids are juiced up on drugs or alcohol to care about such trivial nonsensical things as studies of any kind.
2) Have a quickie 'quiz'... First time, top two move up to game podiums. The two duke it out in an 'even' battle. You can make 'them' teams if you want more dynamics. The winner gets to stay at their podium, loser must leave.
3) 'Quiz' then picks next top winner. This sap plays current 'champion'. If he wins, he gets to stay.
4) For each victory, a playa gets certain number of points, say 100. If he beats the current champion, he gets the champion's points plus his 100.
5) First player to reach 1000 wins 1 million dollars. (See #9).
6) With 'team' play, extra dynamics can be added. Each team can have bags of rotten fruit to throw at their enemies to distract them. They can mount 'raids' on the enemy booth to distract them. They can yell obscenities (bleeped out unless on cable) at the other team to distract them. They can verbally support themselves and figure out what to do. You can see them wallow in anguish when they are losing it... or see the elation when they take the enemy general's head.
7) The quizes... could be trivia things or could be mini-games. Like, who can charge his cav across a bridge in a hopeless battle and do the best... most kills advances. You change scenarios for each quiz, of course, so nobody gets real good at it. Could be who captures the most fleeing peasants... whatever.
8) Have that funny Japanese feller from the show BANZAI as the host. Host can talk in funny tongues and spew wisdom from his arse to confuse the morons at the helm. He can enlighten them with useless information.
9) When team is competing for the million, if champion wins, he get the dough. If challenger wins, he becomes champion and must win next battle to win the million. So, just reaching 1000 points makes you ELIGIBLE for the money bout.
10) Allow gambling on odds of players winning, etc. Nothing will get the crowd into it more than if they have bets on their favorite playas. So, the show would have to be filmed in Vegas or something.
Well... Vanya not sure this show would be a "hit"... but it would punch somebody in the gut... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif
GAH
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