View Full Version : Polish retainers
DemonArchangel
10-06-2003, 22:10
why not just get chivalric knights instead of these useless polish retainers?
Because you're polish and need retainers. I think it has something to do with teeth.
Mega Dux Bob
10-06-2003, 22:37
Yes, sadly the Polish nobility suffered from small jaws in comparision to thier heads, this resulted to horrible dental problems. This forced the Poles to maintian vast groups of retainers who followed them on to the battle field so desperate was the need. It is sad truth that the Grand Master of the Tetonic Order of Knights was garroted to death by dental floss at the battle of Tannenburgh.
DemonArchangel
10-06-2003, 22:51
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
Cousin Zoidfarb
10-07-2003, 00:02
Mod them so they can be available in all periods, which they should be.
I suppose you are talking MP?
MP:
1. Polish retainer is useful if you play CWB with 2-max rule. You are only allowed 2 CK and if you want more cav, you need PR.
2. Playing as Poles in MP games, I found the retainers could make the Poles a super fast, cav oriented army. Of course, you may say why you want that, but it is always fun to play with horses http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
SP:
Polish retainers only costs you a Horse Breeder 2 and you can breed an army of those quickly. In order to breed CK, you need baronial palace, upgrade swordsmith, armoror and horse breeder to the teeth, meaning you won't have CK until a lot of dental floss are already used and only in a few provinces.
Polish retainer is also quite cheaper to maintain.
It is the "breed on demand" kinda quality that I love Polish retainer (and many Muslim cav too). Give me half-a-dozen provinces and I'll equipe them first with Horsebreeder Workshop. Within a decade, I can have a super cav-oriented army that can rival the Horde.
Annie
mystic brew
10-07-2003, 01:43
Why use 'em? Because you can get them quick-quick, and they are fast and hard hitting in the early game.
It's not comparing like with like to say why not use CKs instead. they are more like mounted sargeants. But better in every way. Think of them like battle cruisers. I've taken on spears and won with these boys. they'll beat anyone up to the knights, and that's a good card to be able to play.
All cavalry is useful just for the fact if they suck in battle because of poor attack and armor they are super fast on the battle field. I've often used the worst cavalry that that faction could have just to stand in the back of my army and let them go to town once the enemy is routing. But I will never forget that I had some Saharan cavalry routing that was chasing a completely routed army well I guess they were just mocking my general for running off the battlefield screaming like a girl
Polish Retainers are good medium cavalry. Just like Armenian Heavy Cavalry (don't let the name fool you).
But sadly they are no longer available in Early and that cuts down on their effectiveness as you should be able to train knights by the time they are unlocked.
If you start campaign in Early, yes, you would be able to train CK or FK. But if you start as a two-provice-Pole in High, there is no time to rev up the infrastructure before you face multitude problems. Polish Retainer allows you to stay afloat, even expand a bit more before you could hold-on to your own.
Even in Early, I devoted only a few provinces to produce CK (bloody Baronial court costs me 1000 bucks already) while the rest just have HorseBreederGuild and I am in business.
You should never attack spears head on with cav. But I have used two retainers to make spearmen routed (opponent general should not have high stars or already dead), the deadly blow always come from the behind of the spears.
Annie's take:
Annie couldn't survive as Pole without Retainers in High or Late. If you play Poles without Retainers, you are handicapping yourself and is better than Annie.
Annie
Ohhh, I totally agree Annie.
I only reply in Early because everybody seems to play that period the most.
Why didn't they get the +1 Valour bonus from Poland? That is the only province they can be built in in v1.1. Genoese Sailors got +1 in Genoa. Seems a little unfair to the already handicapped Poles.
In MedMod they are available in all Polish provinces, get the bonus in Poland and are available in all eras. This makes them much more useful and a much better option than Mtd Sgts.
I prefer Lithuanians. Cheaper and eager in a way.
Quote[/b] (pr Fire @ Oct. 08 2003,03:42)]I prefer Lithuanians. Cheaper and eager in a way.
*Cough cough*
Say what????
MizuKokami
10-12-2003, 07:57
well, i just got done reading a web site that gives mention of polish retainers. and as far as i can tell, mtw has them a bit wrong. the knights of feudal poland were required to serve, along with any retainers(mercanaries) they could afford. the knights and retainers were equiped in one of the following four calvary types
1...fully armored knights
2...lancers in half armor
3...crossbow man in cuirass
4...swordsman with helmet and shield
they were specifically equipped this way for two reasons
1...to defend against the teutonics
2...to defend against the mongels
the polish retainers, the system they used with knights and mercs, not only succeeded in eventually defeating the teutonics, but became the backbone of their entire military system.
Leet Eriksson
10-12-2003, 14:46
The game lacks winged hussars for the poles... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
MizuKokami
10-13-2003, 03:33
as well as more valorous peasants, since in cases of extreme emergencies, they served in the military.
but back to the retainers...they also were larger units then most cav units, rangeing from 60-100 men. also, their total numbers of all their cav were, in it's prime, 50000 total, with more from lithuania that was with poland, an additional 20000. it would seem to me that poland should be a much stronger force to contend with then our game gives credit. one final thought, since the purpose of the retainer system of the poles was to be able to defeat the mongels and the teutonics, wouldn't it stand to reason that they should have anti-cav capabilities?
Orda Khan
10-13-2003, 17:58
Yes Poland and Hungary were two strong mediaeval nations
....Orda
Kristaps
10-13-2003, 18:15
Quote[/b] (Orda Khan @ Oct. 13 2003,11:58)]Yes Poland and Hungary were two strong mediaeval nations
....Orda
note that, before the Lithuanian king married a Polish princess in the XV century creating the Polish-Lithuanian union, it was actually Lithuania that dominated the eastern european map http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
neogerry
10-13-2003, 19:24
Quote[/b] (Kristaps @ Oct. 13 2003,12:15)]
Quote[/b] (Orda Khan @ Oct. 13 2003,11:58)]Yes Poland and Hungary were two strong mediaeval nations
....Orda
note that, before the Lithuanian king married a Polish princess in the XV century creating the Polish-Lithuanian union, it was actually Lithuania that dominated the eastern european map http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
really?
Quote[/b] (neogerry @ Oct. 13 2003,13:24)]
Quote[/b] (Kristaps @ Oct. 13 2003,12:15)]
Quote[/b] (Orda Khan @ Oct. 13 2003,11:58)]Yes Poland and Hungary were two strong mediaeval nations
....Orda
note that, before the Lithuanian king married a Polish princess in the XV century creating the Polish-Lithuanian union, it was actually Lithuania that dominated the eastern european map http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
really?
Yes.
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