View Full Version : Medmod IV v3.11 Update/Patch
I have posted the 3.11 text update/patch at my website.
You don't need to get the graphics portion again.
It corrects the formations glitch. All I did for the formations was move my version, Three Line Balanced, down in the file so that it's no longer at the top. I still can't understand why it puts the units where it does sometimes, but it still often works better for me as a starting formation than any of the others.
I also converted the game's grammer usage to replace mention of the Novgorods with the Swedes. I was not able to convert the Danish names for use by the Swedes, so you still have Russian names and shields, but the rest of the game should read better, including the Swede name on the faction selection screen.
I also finally corrected all the grammer syntax errors in the game, like using the adjective version of faction names where the noun was called for.
I made all of the changes mentioned in the Public Release thread, plus others for almost all the rebelling troop settings for every unit in the game. I hope this helps the Crusade and Jihad units that were created, and the Mongols when they form rebellions to try and re-take territory.
I also made some changes to unit suitability for producing military generals, along with other small, miscellaneous changes.
I have included files to use if you want to un-install the mod, and provided instructions for using them, as well as instructions for converting the mod to use with non-english versions of the game. These instructions are included in the 3.11 Readme file, which is also posted at my site if you want to review it before downloading the mod. I also noted that you cannot use Huge unit sizes with the mod.
All known bugs with the mod have been fixed now. I checked out the Muslim factions in my current High game, circa 1275, and they were producing both sons and daughters. I think this is actually an improvement to the game, by eliminating the bonus the Muslims enjoyed in that they had offspring just as often as the Christians, but they were all sons.
Great Good job
Downloaded and installed it, now I'm gonna play it soon
Lancer6969
10-07-2003, 14:44
You should give a overall readme update telling everyone, what all your mod has to offer. I have been following your mod since 1.85, and I have NO CLUE what it includes. You have so many updates, I refuse to look through all the posts. Please post all changes from your mod, and the game. I want to download your mod, but with so many choices I dont know.
Lancer
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif
Seems good, there is still the problem of the picture in Rum and places when you click on the provence (but you probably know that), and also, the name of the Start Menu folder still shows version 1.85 Great otherwise. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
Quote[/b] (BDC @ Oct. 07 2003,15:26)]Seems good, there is still the problem of the picture in Rum and places when you click on the provence (but you probably know that), and also, the name of the Start Menu folder still shows version 1.85 Great otherwise. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
You must have something installed incorrectly. I re-installed the game and unzipped the 3.11 version onto it, and everything went perfectly. You should see 3.11 on the Main Menu.
Several people wrote today about a bug with the Russians being Catholics in Early. Funny, since this had to have been in the mod since its release last Thursday.
Anyway, it's a snap to fix. Open the MTW\campmap\startpos folder, and you'll see the MM_Early campaign file. Go to lines 1939 and 1965, and change the Russians from Catholic to Orthodox.
In other news, I have spent the day working on some remaining balance issues with the mod. Dan Quick, a modder like me who has recently discovered MTW and my mod, has been sending in some excellent feedback via email. He wrote in yesterday about a Late game he started as the HRE, and how it was impossible to win. I kind of shrugged most of it off at first, but then I looked into the campaign file and made a few changes to strengthen the HRE.
Then I started a Late game to see for myself how things went, and I lasted all of 7 turns before throwing in the towel. I am about convinced that there is something wrong in the diplomacy routines regarding the HRE, since it is simply impossible to make any kind of alliances, or even to get the AIs to be civil, not even at the very beginning of the game.
I had given the HRE extra princesses and diplomats to use in getting alliances right off the bat, to try and deter being ganged-up on like always, but they had absolutely no effect. I had given the HRE extra ships to try and get some trade income, and in my game, on the first turn, the Swedes attacked my ships and the Swiss tried to bribe one of my generals. After that no one would have anything to do with me. It may not have made any difference anyway, based upon prior games as the HRE.
The that got me though was that I didn't appreciate how much of an effect master-level buildings had upon unit stats, and the effect of provinces starting out with these buildings in order to produce bodyguard units immediately. The HRE is surrounded by more than half a dozen factions in Late, a couple of which almost have to attack them in order to expand. Every time I was attacked, it seemed like every unit had silver or gold armour. The two comparable provinces I had, after upgrading Bavaria to produce Teutonic Kns immediately, could not compete with the gangbang I was receiving on every front.
So, I reduced all master-level buildings to guild level to start the era with. This hurts the HRE in Austria, but it also hurts a few of their rivals, so the HRE wins overall. I also upgraded most HRE provinces to start with workshop-level buildings in all ordinary unit producers like Spearmakers, Bowyers, etc. Friesland and Tyrolia are exceptions. I also gave many of the provinces mines to start with, so that the HRE doesn't have to spent money on them at the start.
I removed the morale penalty that HRE units had, and I gave them some of the palace buildings like Marshalls Palace to help with making competent generals. I actually gave the buildings before I played my game, and I ended up making 2 4-star and one 2-star general in addition to the king's 4 stars. The first heir was also a 3-star, and I produced a 3-star from Bavaria after a few turns. This still left me at a big disadvantage when facing the Swiss, but it was better than before anyway.
Dan had also repeatedly mentioned that Huscarles were over-powered, and today he reported the same thing with Billmen. So, I looked in the files and studied them a while, and found that I had not factored some things correctly, and that the AP units were indeed generally over-powered, especially in the later eras and especially against heavy cavalry. Knowing what I do now, I think maybe halbard types have always been too strong versus cavalry.
So, I took a little off the attack of the strongest AP types like Gothic Ft Kns and Varangian Guards, and I took one point away from the attack bonus versus cavalry for halbardiers. I took a point of defense away from most AP units like halbards and huscarles, and I took two additional points from Billmen, who had been almost as armoured as regular halbards.
I also looked into the Italian units, and decided to make the Light and Heavy Infantry units 60 men instead of 100 or 80. They had been getting the extra men for free like regular spear units, but these weren't regular units anymore with the Light being available in Early and the Heavy just being so damn strong. This should weaken the Italians by reducing the amount of men they can bring to the battlefield. (I still want to play as the Italians one day and build some Heavy and see what they can do.)
I also took a point of either attack or defense away from some of the other 100-man hybrids like Bondi and Outremer Infantry.
Lancer, if you want to see what the mod includes, all you have to do is go over the readme, which is posted at my webpage. It covers all the general topics, and the other files provide more detailed info on certain parts of the game.
When I make updates, I update the readmes so that they provide current info for someone new to the mod, and then I post specific changes in the threads for the beta-testers and current users who just need to know what's new, and in more detail.
Ironside
10-09-2003, 09:57
Here's bugs and things I noticed in Wesmod 3.10-3.11 as the Swedes.
The Swedes don't get their bonuses from building things like Royal palace, Admirality (confirmed), Cathedral (confirmed) I haven't got a single one of those on any of my generals and the Egyptians got them.
The cutoff of the seas hurts the northen parts 3 times (estimated trade difference between me and the Egyptians, empires are about the same size) harder then the south. And I'm trading with the Almohads in entire Spain (3 ports) in my own private northsea (that means that the Almohads don't build ships in the northen parts despite having shipyards there.
And my bondis is going to get alot of training consider that roughly 80% of the Egyptian army is cav. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
The Russians being catholics is appearantly already noticed.
Gregoshi
10-09-2003, 16:38
New patron Duncan posts the following problem in the Entrance Hall:
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Hi everybody,
I played with no problem with MedMod 3.03 beta, and I got 3.11 version yesterday.
I made a clan install of VI then I directly put 3.11 text then 3.11 graphics.
Then I got a superb black screen when I tried to launch the game and returned to the desk.
But If I uninstall graphic 3.11 it works??? I can boot the game.
Should I have install 3.11 after 3.03 or not?
As a matter of fact I tried several times over a clean VI. And I have no idea about a solution? Thanks.
Can someone help.
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His orginal topic can be found here: Help for MedMod 3.11 (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=15;t=11692)
Jeebus_Frist
10-09-2003, 16:41
My observations:
If the french sink the english ships the english never build ships which leaves them sitting in Britain doing nothing.
I agree with Ironside that trade income is unbalanced between the Atlantic factions and the Med factions. He is also correct that the Almohads never build ships on the Atlantic side.
The almohads and the mongols usually ally and always end up controlling 85% of the map between them. The mongols especially are waaayyyy to overpowered. They have scads of units in every single province. While it is historically accurate that they rolled over everything in their way they should eventually fade and disappear.
The increased unit size and relatively low cost of muslim units gives the almohad an extreme advantage which always allows them to quickly wipe out spain.
In my first game as the english, I took Leon and Castille from the Almohad and they took Provence from the french and now border my land in Aquitaine. I had roughly fifteen hundred troops in each of the three provinces while they are sitting in Portugal, Provence, Valencia, and Cordoba with around eight thousand troops in each of these provinces. Their huge trade advantage and low cost increased size units means I have to face a ten or twelve thousand to two thousand battle each turn. The only reason this is a problem is trade in the Atlantic doesn't support larger armies and my personal schedule means that I can only play ONE TURN per night since 12000 vs 2000 takes close to the full 205 minute time limit for battles So far I have fought four such battles in consecutive turns and have won each one destroying over half the opposing force only to watch the almohad bring more reinforcements from the eastern med to more than replace what I destroyed. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
Limiting faction specific units to homelands means that the only commonly produced units in conquered territories are missile units. Consequently, the almohad forces are usually sixty percent or more archers and handgunners, so while their stacks are enormous they are mostly filled with troops set to skirmish that run around the map for the entire battle tiring out the precious few cavalry troops the english can produce. This also makes iron an extreme advantage for factions that have it in their homelands. For instance the Swedes have upgraded weapons for ALL of their troops but if I go and conquer Sweden the best I can do is build arbalests and archers with upgraded weapons. This removes iron as a strategic target when planning invasions for any factions, but especially the english who should be training longbows and ignoring lesser archer types.
As it is my campaign which began in 1205 as the english is nearing 1320. I have the isles, Norway, Sweden, Aquitaine, Normandy, Castille, and Leon. The Pope controls Italy, the Sicilians have Sicily, Naples, Malta, Greece, and Genoa. Swedes have respawned in Finland and are simply sitting there. Byzantines have Corsica and Crete. France has Brittany, Anjou, and Flanders. Aragon controls Aragon and Sardinia. The Almohads control all of Africa, the southern half of the Iberian peninsula, all of the Egyptian homelands, and southern France. The Mongols control everything else All of the Baltic, Germany, Poland, Hungary, Byzantium, Russia, Turkey, Denmark, and they have yet to build a single ship anywhere. The only rebel province is Arabia which the Almohad are ignoring for some reason. The only area I can easily expand is into the French territories which I won't do because they are my allies and serve as a temporary buffer against the oncoming horde of Mongols. I can't attack the weaker almohad provinces because I have no access to the Med. The huge glut of Almohad troops is preventing me from invading their heavily defended provinces because their number will exhaust my troops before the battle is half through. Traditionally I would wait for them to attack me two or three times and after I had destroyed those attacks I would have been able to advance against lesser forces, but their ability to replenish their losses instantaneously is unreal. It is a stalemate right now since they can't drive me out of Spain and my forces are too few to attack them. If (when) the mongols decide to smash the three remaining french provinces I will be driven back to the isles in short order.
I am having loads of fun and will be trying a new faction as soon as the Mongols finish the rest of us off. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
I think that maybe reintroducing unique area units (ie Basque Spearmen) would be a good idea, as it make some provences stratregically more important and provides a bit of variety. Also, without the abilty to build ships in the opposing bit of ocean (ie Atlantic to Byz, Med to English) means that actually winning a game is impossible.
Interesting post Jeebus. I find in all of my games that playing against the mongols is damned near impossible. I had a game in High with Egypt, and they just don't have any units that can fight against the mongols, so I abandoned that one after they started crushing me. Russians and Turks can sometimes survive but it's insanely hard. Now hard is a good thing, however Mongols are just so damned annoying to fight, that picking any of the non catholic factions not including almohads is a bit weird for me. Because I know that all game long I'm gonna be fighting the evil Mongols http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif Nevertheless I'm playing as Turks in Late right now, trying to have fun with all them unique Turkish units...but of course I have to fight the mongols Anyways, I haven't found anyone else overpowered other than perhaps the Italians, who do well every single game. Also while the trade may be unbalanced from Atlantic to Med, I like the way it's set up right now. I've played factions from either side, and you can get a good economy going either way.
Howdy...got some comments on the mod Wes. In my latest Turkish campaign I've detected a glitch. Janissary Infantry require a Country Militia to biuld, however the Turks don't have access to one No matter, I prefer the Heavy Infs anyhow, but still this is a bug. Also, isn't it a bit weird that Armenia doesn't count as a Turkish homeland in terms of units, but everything around it does. I find it kind of bizzare, although I understand you may be trying to be historical, since armenians are christians and all... On another note, Turks are very limited in their generic unit selection in late age...only gunpowder units are generic, and the muslim handgunner and naptha throwers are the only ones i can make. Maybe give Turks more access to regional units to make up for this, or at least add some other generic unit. I'm not certain but I think that all other factions get a good bit more generic units that they can make anywhere... Just my observations...thanks again Wes http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
ToranagaSama
10-10-2003, 08:40
Wes,
Finally, getting a chance to put the MedMod thru its paces.
BUG: Prior to First Turn, Right-Click on King (forget island name), while Parchment still open, right-click on Knights located in Scilily: CTD
REQUEST 1: Scilian King always originates on that little island (forget name). The King of Sciliy should originate in Sciliy--No?
REQUEST 2: Sciliy starts with 3 ships. 2 in Scility, one in the Sea between that "little island". The ship in this sea cannot be moved to the "little island" prior to the first turn. Can this be fixed?
Request 3: Can Sicily start with the 3 ships in a "chain" leading to the "little island"?
The above will save 2 to 3 turns, allowing Sciliy to get going a bit quicker. This can be significant (specifically playing with "Hardcore Rules", given the two Knights have ZERO Acumen).
As it is, its a bit of an irritant and somewhat illogical, sense the King would normally be in his Capital and having already established the little island as part of his kingdom, travel by ship would, naturally, have been established as well.
Playing Expert, MM Early Period. I presume I installed things correctly, Fresh install: MTW, Vikings, Medmod 3.11 "Texts, Graphics.
Again, thank you VERY MUCH for your efforts, and between now and Christmas expect a "care" package from ToranagaSama.
----
P.S., have you gotten your PC problems squared away?
P.S.S., Have you ever played Homeworld by any chance? Homeworld 2 is out, and soon will have some good modding tools provided by the developers. They also provide EXCELLENT modding support. HW2 needs your attention
Thanks again.
ToranagaSama
10-10-2003, 09:10
OK,
Tried again. Prior to First Turn, after "re-arranging" things a bit, attempted to re-create the above "bug". No CTD this time.
But, click on the "unit" (at least I believe it was the "unit" could have been either one) build icon: Game Freeze
Rebooted and tried again. Immediately right-clicked on Siciliy and clicked the "unit" build icon: Error Message
Error Message: Popolo Calvary has been declared as Generic, Pagan, Catholic, Orthodox, Muslim, Christian, but its Imagetype_Iconic was requested from Campmap\preview_panel\units\catholic\ and is not present there or in the root directory. ***using default image***
On the "unit" build Parchment, Contadina Calvary has a little black square icon as representative.
Awaiting response, loading HW2...hehehe....
Quote[/b] ]Nice http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Now I just hope I can install the patch over MedMod and that MedMod will still work.
Quote[/b] ]Will this install over MedMod without problems?
We seem to have the same question http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Incase you haven't read the "PATCH" thread in the Main Hall.
Hopefully I won't have to start a new campaign again, seeing as I like my current HRE campaign http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
Hamburglar
10-10-2003, 17:50
The Patch: I think I heard a CA rep said the patch won't screw with any mods b/c all it changes is the .exe and none of the "real files" or whatever. So everyone should be OK.
Aboot the mod: (I've been testing 3 different mods as of late, hard to keep track which ones which now hahah)
I agree the HRE is definitely too weak in every era - those changes you added WesW should help them a bit. I'm gonna try playing a few camps on them as Expert, b/c if I can survive on expert then maybe the AI can too.
English seem like the always never ever do anything, but then again, the regular game is like that too so its not like its your fault.
Now a biggie:
Because of HomeLand units, it seems like the AI is making WAY too many missile troops. As others have said, usually 60% of their army is missile guys. When you play a Late campaign this gets absurd because they get even MORE missile guys all over the place. They have huge armies but they are paper dragons. Their missile guys just skirmish around all day until they eventually lose but the battles take freakin forever.
About the missile troops and the English: I know the English suck as the AI anyway, but having Longbowmen as their Bodyguard unit you wouldn't believe how easy it is to wipe them out. The AI never properly protects its archers so it is ALWAYS very easy to charge straight into those longbowmen with cavalry. Typically this results in dead royal troops. Even if the King is being a Jedi and fights a lot, he always routs eventually and being a routing Longbowman he doesn't escape the map EVER. I really think the English BG unit should be cavalry or at least heavy infantry like foot knights because the English royal family seriously just dies like flies when you play against them.
Possibly the English should have a mounted knight bodyguard unit (but not too good), but when dismounted are very good at defending against cavalry and armour? Thinking of some of the battles in the 100 year war...
ToranagaSama
10-10-2003, 20:57
Can someone please confirm a) whether I installed correctly; and b) the bugs in Sciliy? Is it just me?
Thanks.
Hey this past campaign for me as Turks I found that Muslim handgunners will absolutely massacre all those really slow European heavy infantry units. I mean, I won a battle because of them taking http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif NO casualties http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif Have they been ridiculously beefed or something? I've never gotten much use at all out of the gun-toting units before. Not that I mind, since they were the only generic unit I could make, they may as well be useful http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
ToranagaSama
10-11-2003, 06:41
I think I figured out my problem. Apparently, surmising, for some reason the Graphics didn't load properly. Reloaded the graphics to x:\program files\Total War\ and whalla
I guess the caveate is, do not have too many Mike's Cranberry Hard Lemonade prior to loading software. Coulda sworn I loaded the grahpics.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif
Heading out to get more Mike's....
Really enjoying this mod and admiring the work that must have gone into it. Being restricted (sometimes saddled) with your faction's particular troop types makes things far more challenging and realistic.
Agree with those who posted about English BG's though. Don't think that the Black Prince, Richard etc. would have hung out with "lowly" longbowman although they won their battles for them. Also think that I saw Richard returning to England mounted and in full aromor in the last Robin Hood movie which should settle the argument. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif
Well, a certain significant other is sleeping so it's time for Ile de France to fall
i started a new english campaign GA early. ive noticed a consistant CTD when i click on the penultimate faction shield in the GA window. (i think it is the russians, but it could be kievans) i have no idea if this will be a problem for the game besides the obvious.
Quote[/b] (Hamburglar @ Oct. 10 2003,11:50)]Because of HomeLand units, it seems like the AI is making WAY too many missile troops. As others have said, usually 60% of their army is missile guys.
Yeah, I've noticed this as a big problem even with 3.07 - Byzantine Empire covered 2/3 of the world playing from early into late, but was all handgunners and arquebusiers. Once the Byz emperor suicided on my spears without heirs, the empire fell apart and all the rebel stacks of missile troops posed no threat whatsoever. Surely a generic spear unit of some kind should be available along with generic missle troops?
The GAs don't work because they are wrong for the factions now, you will just have to either not click on the GA tab or not play GA games. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
Jacque Schtrapp
10-11-2003, 18:45
Started a new MMHigh campaign on expert as the Italians. I can't build ships anywhere. I took a look at the UnitProd file and they are listed as capable of producing Galley and War Galley. I verified that the correct provinces are listed. I then proceeded to play around with adding the Barque and Dromon class ships to the Italians along with Venice as the production capable province for the Dromon. They are still unable to build ships of any type. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif I'll have to leave this up to your expertise as I have yet to dig any deeper than the Prod and StartPos files. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
I also agree with jas that some type of generic spear unit should be available in every province to counteract the missile armies that the AI is producing. Since every lord was capable of raising a company or two outfitted with spears and basic armor of some sort, how about Armored Spearmen? They are fairly generic but capable of putting up a decent fight as long as any morale penalties are removed. Just a thought
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
Quote[/b] (BDC @ Oct. 11 2003,06:04)]The GAs don't work because they are wrong for the factions now, you will just have to either not click on the GA tab or not play GA games. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
Of course the new factions dont have GAs; im an idiot. i guess thats what i get for posting at 4:10 am.
im guessing that the GAs cant be modder either, right? suck.
Yeah, sadly. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif I think they can be renamed, but not actually changed.
Happy birthday WesW by the way http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
A couple of observations from my campaign:
Denmark went from worthless (zero expansion) to mega world power. they are expanding far faster than anyone except myself. they need to be tuned down a bit to make them more equal to the other factions.
As english, i keep encountering armies of 80% archers, fielded by france and aragon. im not sure why they love archers all of a sudden, but with my norman knight production, im cleaning up on them.
I can't seem to insatll the mode properly.
It installs itself in a seperate folder withinthe Total war folder.
My Total War Game is installed in C:\Program Files\Total War
What path should I install the mod to ?
Just cut the files within the new folder and paste them in the real MTW directory. You'll get a question about whether you want to overwrite the older files or not, so do "yes to all" and after all is said and done try it out again. It will most likely work.
ToranagaSama
10-13-2003, 13:26
Quote[/b] ]REQUEST 2: Sciliy starts with 3 ships. 2 in Scility, one in the Sea between that "little island". The ship in this sea cannot be moved to the "little island" prior to the first turn. Can this be fixed?
Request 3: Can Sicily start with the 3 ships in a "chain" leading to the "little island"?
Forget the above requests
I play with my "Hardcore Rules"; and still with this new mod, I've got more money than I've EVER had since the game was released. I would normally find this rather dissappointing, BUT with all that this mod accomplishes I am STILL being challenged. Its around 1140 or so, I haven't had a major battle, as yet; but the Italians and Byzantines have many ships in the Med and Black Sea and are developing their buildings quite well. The Italians have the most money and the largest Army.
Initially, as always, the AI ships were build and placed with the purpose of "guarding" coastlines, but in due time the Italian and Byzantine ships have spread out and Trade Networks have developed. Wonderful. So, obviously, with the MedMod and utilizing HardCore Rules *I* don't appear to be out-earning the AI (or at least a couple of the factions).
The Almo, while having several ships have not spread them out into a Trade Network. Choosing to stack them up into 3 or 4 stacks with 2 to 3 ships a piece, guarding their coasts. Not sure how much this effected Almo, but I thought to attack him, and started to stack my many ships into stacks of 3 and 4, 5 to 6 stacks or so. Almo apparently notice this and re-acted as described above. I decided against the attack and spread my ships back out re-establishing my Trade Network (money starting to get rather low). As yet, Almo still has his ships stacked. Its been 5 turns or so. Previously, I don't believe I notice the AI to re-act so pre-emptively Wonderful.
Spain has died for lack of an Heir, after taking Aragon and tusseling with Almo a slight bit.
One thing I find curious is that I can't seem to keep an alliance with Spain. After several turns the alliance just seems to evaporate without notice or cause. Yet, I can maintain alliance with others. Curious.
Another observation, "Peace" seems to be lasting longer than Iv'e previously notice. This is Good The only Factions doing any "serious" fighting, for most of the time, were the Italians, Germans and British. Oh yeah, the French bit the dust rather earlier. The Italians after seesawing quite a bit against the English/German Alliance, seem to be pushing them back, re-taking and taking Genoa and Provence, while defending Venice. The Germans and English have worked well as allies with several mutually supporting attacks upon the Italians.
The Egyptians are STILL as territorially defensive of their Seas as ever. Stupidly attacking my ship near Antioch, with their SINGLE ship. I, Sciliy, have a few dozen I doubt anything can be done to alter this behaviour, appears hard-coded. Too bad.
The Byzantines are the Byzantines, still having incredibly powerful Generals. Though they've been relatively peaceful so far. Still stacking too many stacks in particularl provinces. They bribed their way into Kiev; and as my Ally, to my surprise, assited my attack upon Hungary. Needless to say they came with too many stacks, and, as a result, the attack was successful with the Hungarians withdrawing without a fight, BUT the Byanztines having the greater number got possession of the province.
This little "game rule" needs to be adjusted, as I didn't want, need, nor ask for their assistance; and only allied with them because the Byz King offered his daughter @#$?@
For the last 5 turns or more the Swedes have been attacking the Russians in Khazar. The defense of which caused the Russian province of Kiev to go Rebel, and, subsequently lost to Byzantinne Bribery.
The Turks have quietly faded, having only two provinces remaining off of Cyprus (forget province names). Don't know how they wilted so. The lost provences split between the Byz and Egyptians. Oh yeah, I believe the Turks invaded Antioch, apparently an unwise move.
Almo has most of the Spanish penninusula, though I, Sciliy, bribed my way into Cordoba.
Well that's how my campaign is shaping up, so far. I have more money than I could have imagined, even though using ONLY Knights as Govenors (HardCore Rules). Yet, at this point I'm not dissappointed in the challenge, as yet. My AI opponnents appear well developed with the Byzantines THE most developed faction. There are FEW, if any, obviously weak factions and/or provinces to exploit. Rebel provinces when they appear don't last, as rebel, for long (bribery being the main method of conquest). The French have reappeared and so have the Aragon, both apparently strong enough to forestall attack. The Argonese have gotten two ships in the water, after building up a handful of additional troops. Surprising, yet, intelligent behaviour. Its been awhile since any further developements, so I believe they must be out of money.
I, Sicily, in addition to Cardoba, have taken, without bloodshed, the two Hungarian provinces off the Adriatic (don't remember names) one with Gold/Silver mines, the other with Silver/Coopr mines. After re-establishing my trade network, I have approximately 10,000 Florins, 4 Full stacks--plus, and yearly income (at the moment), of apprx. 2700 Florins.
More than there ever was, More than there ever was.....
Things are about to EXPLODE
Overall, my impression (playing Sicily), is, while, I have not experienced the tense sense of impending doom, due to lack of funds, I normally would experience from the onset of play, given the Hardcore Rules, I have the new and interesting experience of a "Powder Keg" situation. I have never experienced this so early.
Approx. year: 1140 Sicily MM Early Period Expert [HardCore Rules]
ToranagaSama
10-13-2003, 13:45
Quote[/b] (monkian @ Oct. 12 2003,13:51)]I can't seem to insatll the mode properly.
It installs itself in a seperate folder withinthe Total war folder.
My Total War Game is installed in C:\Program Files\Total War
What path should I install the mod to ?
monkian,
Prior to install you should have a folder entitled:
Medieval - Total War
do you?
If so, then your string s/b:
c:\Program Files\Total War\Medieval - Total War
Point the installer to: c:\Program Files\Total War\
If not, the do you have Medieval: Total War AND Vikings installed? You must have. Were both install to:
c:\Program Files\Total War\
If so, then you can try as I previously instructed and point the installer to c:\Program Files, but that might not work as the install may be looking for "Total War".
If it doesn't or isn't working, then find the "zipped" version of the files. Its either at Wes' site or at the Org's download section. The zipper version does not have an installer and you must manually place the files.
Presuming you have a working copy of Vikings, then Extract the files to a temporary folder. The Copy and Paste the files to:
C:\Program Files\Total War
If that doesn't work, then I suggest you, simply, start fresh. Uninstall the Medmod, Vikings, then Medieval; and re-install Medieval and Vikings paying careful attention to where the files are being installed. You should have a folder entitled "Medieval - Total War. Then try the above again.
Good Luck
Maybe it's me but anyone else having trouble building Chapter Houses? Had the same problem with 3.10.
They seem to be available for the first few turns but then disappear. Built one early on in Aquitaine as English and wanted to build one in Lorraine but no go. In fact, the CH that was able to be built in Mercia on the 1st turn is no longer available...hmm. Also noticed that no other factions have launched any Crusades yet (year 1150)so maybe the AI's having the same problem...SO, looks like I'm stuck with one CH in Aquitaine which will make it a long road to Antioch.
Are factions limited to one? Just curious.
Yeah Cid I think factions are limited to just one. Hey ToranagaSama...what are hardcore rules exactly? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
Jeebus_Frist
10-13-2003, 21:15
Quote[/b] (Hobot @ Oct. 13 2003,14:59)]Yeah Cid I think factions are limited to just one.
Yeah and the crusades are really expensive and take a long time to build.
New campaign as the Danes. Observations:
Huscarles roll over everything
There is something called a Royal Bodyguard that shows up in building capabilities but never in the unit screen.
The mongols never build ships and I have yet to see one of their emissaries or princesses.
I've seen three peasant revolts in 100 years. Each time, Navarre (Aragon), Pereyaslavl (Monagols), and Chernigov (Mongols) have resulted in three stacks of chivalric foot knights http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
I raised the unit prod cost for MonHCav and MonHorArch along with doubling their support costs. They still took over everything east of Poland and down south as far as Antioch. They haven't been able to advance further due to heavy resistance from the Poles and the French who control the ME.
The French and Spanish are engaged in a war of attrition which basically involves province swapping every year.
All of the remaining factions are building large stacks of troops but no one seems gung ho to invade anyone else. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Is there anyway to lower the probability of a port being destroyed when a province is captured?
I'm going to launch a major invasion against the GH tonight
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
Hi everyone, and thanks for the birthday wishes. I have been having really bad headaches since Friday morning, and that is why I haven't posted in a while. I wrote this post Sunday night, but Explorer was on the blink again, and wouldn't let me reply to anything.
I have read through the posts and emails tonight, and I spent several hours making changes to most all of the things you guys have mentioned lately, since I am also running across the same things. Whenever I have felt like doing anything, I have been playing as the HRE in Late to see how my changes worked out. I am quite pleased from what I saw, though I only played about 20 turns. I let it autorun for another 20, and I just couldn't be happier, really.
Monikan, the installer is set up to create a mirror of the default game directory, thus over-writing the existing folders, and some files. If it didn't over-write your files, then you must have set the game up in another directory, or else directed the installer to install its files somewhere else.
Just to note, since I get emails pretty consistently on this topic; my mod's are NOT set up to install into the Medieval subfolder. They always are put inside the Total War folder, which contains the separate CA games, including Medieval.
I know this is not intuitive, but I couldn't figure out how to zip up the mod without using the MTW folder as the one to be zipped. Thus, it is the highest folder created when the mod is either installed or or unzipped.
Also, if you experience CTD's at game startup, it's because there is a conflict with the mpeg-2 file that I inserted in place of the TotalWar intro file. I had no idea that this would cause any problems, since I am pretty sure that this was the format of the original file.
You can delete the file with no problem. It is in the Credits\Legals folder, inside the MTW folder.
You can also create a blank text file in the MTW folder named "skipcredits", and you won't have to bother with them any more.
I agree with the overall opinion that the Horde is too powerful after my last two games. They were building troops like crazy in the late game, when they should be stagnating, imo.
Therefore, I eliminated half of their 67% price discount on unit cost and upkeep, and I also removed about a dozen of their Late starting units.
The price changes will mean that they go in debt faster and farther in Early and High games, but I don't think they would ever be able to back in the black even with the 2/3'rds discount.
As far as new GA's, I want to insert the Homeland provinces as goals for all factions, and I would be happy to include GA's for the new factions. I guess they would have to be copies of existing ones.
The problem is that I need someone who wants GA's in the mod to try and figure out what needs to be done to work them into the mod. I have gotten a number of requests from people wanting them, but so far no one has wanted them bad enough to spend any of their time on them. I don't mind working them into the mod if someone can give me instructions on what to do, but with all the modding I have done these last couple of months, I don't have the desire to take on something new that I might never even play, since I don't normally play in GA mode. I heard that they fixed the scoring bugs in the patch, so I might try them out one day, but right now I still keep finding all I care to tackle with the general game.
I'll try and answer all the guestions posted tomorrow, along with the other stuff I have done. Right now, though, I would like to lay this proposal out for you to think about and comment on:
For the 3.10 version, I took the advice of YG and made Muslim Handgunners the equal of Arquebusiers, which means I simply changed their projectile type in the units text from hand to arqb. I also made them available in the High era. This reflected the technological edge the Muslims had over the Christians at this time. This also allowed me to take Crossbows and Arbs away from the Muslims, so they would use their native units.
So anyway, now the gunpowder units are divided by culture, though not yet by Homelands. What I am proposing is to split up the gunpowder and bolt units by both factions and Homelands, like the regular units.
For the gunpowder units, the Muslim HG would be restricted to the Almohad and Egyptian homelands, which stretch from Leon to Antioch. Those two factions would share this weapon with the Spanish and Aragonese, in the areas where their homelands overlap. The Sp and Ara would not be able to build any gunpowder units outside of the Muslim homelands.
Naptha Throwers would be available for recruitment in Asia Minor, the Italian Peninsula and the islands of the Mediterranean Sea. The factions there would share this weapon ala the Muslim HG. This means the Sicilians, Italians, Byzantines and Turks.
Arquebusiers, which the Russians historically used to finally drive off the Mongols, would be restricted to eastern Europe, generally from Khazar to Finland to Austria. They would be restricted to factions whose homelands are located there, namely the Russians, Poles, Hungarians and the new factions of the steppe to be added to the game later.
Handgunners would be restricted to central, northern and western Europe, with the exception of the British Isles, and the factions located their would all have access to it, except for the English, who would still prefer to have their English Longbowmen.
I think this will really work out well in gameplay, since you find few provinces other than capitals anywhere close to being able to produce gunpowder units after to conquer them.
For bolt units, namely crossbows and arbalests, they would be split up between the Christian factions just like the gunpowder units.
The Italians/Sicilians have superior crossbows of their own, so they would simply be excluded from all other types. The English would be excluded in reference to their longbows. The Spanish/Aragonese would use plain crossbowmen due to the hotter climate of their homeland. The French would prefer pavises added to the armour of their crossbowmen. The Germans would pick Arbalests as their choice, while the Poles and Huns would need a pavise for protection from the arrows of the Horde, among others. The Danes and Swedes would use plain Crossbowmen, while the Russians and Steppe factions would need to add a pavise for missile protection. The Byzantines would want the pavise as well for protection from Muslim barrages, but would need the penetrating power of arbalests if their native archer units proved inadequate.
All bolt units would be available in both the High and Late ages. I may enable pavise crossbows in Early along with plain crossbows as well.
Here is what to do about Archers, since if you started an Early game, plain archers would be available for over 230 yrs, until the Late era started. Factions bordering the Mediterranean could use one of their unique archer units instead of the generic ones if they had at least one province able to produce them immediately. This can also work for factions perferring crossbows, since I can enable both varieties of them in Early.
If we used the faction preferences as I laid them out above, then the only problem faction left is the Germans, who would receive the generic unit.
Well, that seems to have worked out nicely, huh? I was figuring it out as I went along typing. This should be the last major hurdle in the Homelands concept. If the AI starts building too many artillery units, now that generic missile units are taken away, we can split up the artillery like we did the missiles.
So, what do you think?
Sounds great. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I think the idea of being able to build arbalests anywhere, but not melee units, silly. Will there be a generic melee unit avaliable anywhere as well? Maybe something like feudal men-at-arms (not called that) with less armour, but quite cheap, countered by high upkeep to show they are mercs.
Below is a copy of a post I just made in the .com mod forum. And no, I don't like the thought of carrying on simultaneous threads, since it means I often end up saying things twice. I have spent all night and much of the afternoon typing.
I have meaning to ask everyone if they think there are too units being built now, and/or too much money in the game?
I just played as the HRE in Late, and even having an income of over 14k per turn, I didn't have nearly as much money as I needed, due to the huge armies I had to base all around my borders.
I have removed some of the trade items from coastal provinces so that only some capitals like Venice and Constan have two goods, and all others have only one now.
I also reduced the priority of Ports for provinces without Merchants, since it is the number of ports you can trade with that is the key to trade income.
I am going to switch the goods around somemore from mainland provinces to islands, so that all the islands have one, in order to promote ports and keep them from being cut off. (I still remember VC games where the Pictish king got stuck on an island with almost his whole army early in the game, and never would build a port or make a ship to get off of it, thus being stuck there for good.)
I looked into raising ship prices early in the beta, and found that the upkeep on even a large navy for the Italians was insignificant when they were in almost every sea in the Med. I mean like 1 or 2 percent of their trade income was used for ship support. To raise it high enough to have an effect, you would have to make ships prohibitive for factions with smaller trade networks.
I think that the only real way to tackle the abuse of the system by trading factions is to somehow reduce the number of ports they can trade with, without causing provinces to get cut off, or the AI to get stuck.
BDC, I have been going in the opposite direction for some time now regarding generic units. In my initial mod proposal, factions had fewer units than they do now, and there were more generic and buildable mercs to fill in the gaps. I was thinking of creating the historical situations where a large part of most armies were mercs.
The concept didn't play out very well, especially concerning the AI, so I have gradually been adding unique units back to the factions to fill in the significant holes in their lineup, and trying not to lose their uniqueness in the process. Making missile units unique is the final step in the process, I hope, after the restrictions on ships in the last release. This will leave only special attack, artillery and maybe ships to be built in non-Homeland provinces, and I think we will come to really like the strategic elements this adds to the game. Myself, I don't think the English had much luck recruiting French citizens into their armies as Richard III marched through, and this will now be reflected in the game. I think that if this concept had been designed into the original game by CA, we would have accepted it as natural for the most part.
Wes, I've played your mod so much over the last month man http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Anyhow, here's some more observations, thoughts and ideas gathered over an absurd amount of hours of playing...
I think that "generic" units should either disappear almost completely or be far more common. My reasoning is this: The AI will conquer massive empires, whereby they should become much much stronger right? Well they don't I've noticed that huge AI empires become vast carcasses of bloated armies that have way too few quality troops. Right now generic units are ranged or siege units for all factions. This means that the an AI controlled side that has 20+ provinces outside of their homelands will have vast armies of useless units. Archers and siege have their place but they should at most compromise 25% of an army, with the AI it's something like 80% in a huge empire. Thus while AI's are now adept at conquering large territory they are completely incompetant in fighting to keep it. I can go in and massacre their forces with little resistance, disregarding their size, since I am far more selective with my units. This brings us back to what you just posted, and my idea about generic units. If there are no generic units (units buildable everywhere), then an AI side controlling a large empire will be forced to produce garrisons from its homelands. Ships should still remain generic, as this will free up their homelands for troop production. OR, generic units should be much more versatile than range/siege, add merc-type spearmen and men at arms style units to the generic mix, and maybe a weak horse unit as well, and the AI will be able to retain a good army balance. I'm more in favor of the lack of generic units idea, as this makes some sense for one thing, and although it is concievable that a new ruler would be able to recruit low class troops in a distant land, the AI just handles it so poorly, that I say leave em all out
So, the theoretical effect should be thus: The AI sides will begin to function in a fashion far more similar to the human player, producing all their forces from their homelands, thus keeping all factions unique, and armies balanced. There would be FAR fewer units around on the map...but that's a good thing While your mod is lots of fun, it's also massively time consuming, as all the battles become of gargantuan proportion after the first 20 turns or so. Empire building would have to be a far slower and more careful process, since homeland production has to stay ahead of the curve, to allow more lands to be garrisoned. All is not so simple of course. Reappearing factions would have serious trouble now, as they often reappear outside of their designated homelands, thus being unable to produce units using this idea http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif I'm not certain what can be done about that, but I think that gameplay will be far improved anyhow, and screw the factions that reappear in the wrong place, they die off more often than not anyhow. Most otherwise the gameplay is great, and I truly believe that a lack of generic units can fix most of what I don't like about gameplay as of now.
Errr....just my rambling thoughts...peace http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif
Cheers Toranga, can anyone give me a link to the zipped version of this mod ?
I cannot seem to find it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
*edit*
Found it.
Do i simply just extract the entire zip file into my Total War directory or do certain files go into certain folders ?
Jeebus_Frist
10-14-2003, 17:19
I totally agree Hobot. By eliminating generic units and confining troops production to homelands you will in effect dramatically slow the pace of empire building. This should cause an increase in quality troops being produced and make invading foreign territory much harder. On the other hand, it will also reduce the chances of a faction being eliminated which slows the "reappearing faction" problem as you described it. I would even go so far as to eliminate lesser units by period such as having generic archers disappear in the high period and generic crossbow disappear in the late period. By limiting unit production you also remove money as a supreme advantage in troop production and could likely funnel the extra cash into province development, something which is still somewhat lacking. I think it would also become necessary to pair smaller factions with larger ones so that a faction like Aragon wouldn't be limited to one or two provinces in which unit production can be accomplished, but could also take advantage of conquered Spanish lands not unklike the Swedish/Novgorod and Danes already can do.
Quote[/b] ] Myself, I don't think the English had much luck recruiting French citizens into their armies as Richard III marched through, and this will now be reflected in the game. I think that if this concept had been designed into the original game by CA, we would have accepted it as natural for the most part.
I think several of us are thinking along the exact same lines Wes. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Hamburglar
10-14-2003, 17:37
I agree with many of the above posters. The AI does fine fighting each other and expanding and getting huge armies, but when they fight me I utterly obliterate them because their army is made up of almost entirely missile troops.
As a result, I never even produce missile troops because they will always outshoot me and I just mass lots of horse-melee units and just wipe the floor with AI archers.
I think making Archers stuck in homelands or making more generic melee units to be built in other provinces would do it. Other people started this idea, I'm just posting my agreements.
RabidMonkey
10-15-2003, 03:10
I have just had a bug playing the latest version of this mod, but it appears to only be me? When i enter a battle with the italians it always comes up with this error: Cannot find file Textures/men/actionsPage/ItalianHeavyInfantry.txt This is very strange and some help would be appreciated. im happy to fix it myself if someone with a little knowledge could point me in the right direction.
This happened when playing as Turks Early, the other thing i noticed was the Turk Sipahi horse on the battlefield appeared wrong. The rider was all over the place at the wrong angles and floating above the horse. I looked in D:\games\MTW\Textures\Men\ActionsPage\OttomanSipahi.txt and noticed the numbers were all over the shop. So i pasted in the original MTW OttomanSipahi.txt which has fixed that problem. Dont know why these strange things are happening. Its ruining my enjoyment of a great mod
ToranagaSama
10-15-2003, 10:18
I still need to play a lot more, but in concept I concur with Hobot and Jebesus_First--eliminating generic units. Though,I fear, doing so might need a rebalances of Costs and Maintenance.
Quote[/b] ]I looked into raising ship prices early in the beta, and found that the upkeep on even a large navy for the Italians was insignificant when they were in almost every sea in the Med. I mean like 1 or 2 percent of their trade income was used for ship support. To raise it high enough to have an effect, you would have to make ships prohibitive for factions with smaller trade networks.
I think that the only real way to tackle the abuse of the system by trading factions is to somehow reduce the number of ports they can trade with, without causing provinces to get cut off, or the AI to get stuck.
Does anyone know what Criteria the AI uses in choosing Govenors? Does the AI tend to choose, like a Human does, a Unit with the highest level of Acumen?
Is there a way to restrict the Unit type allowed to be Govenor?
IMO, this is the key manner in which to control income in the game. Restricting Governorships to a particular designated Unit Type would limit the available Pool of Units with HIGH levels of Acumen (4 and above). In my experience, when using a single unit type (Knights), most trained units arrive with 0 - 1 Acumen. Resulting in the majority of govenors with 3 Acumen or less.
Additionally, if the restricted unit is one with rather high "build" requirements and cost, this results in very few eligible candidates available to place as govenors, leaving some provinces without Governors---effecting income negatively.
Also, using an advanced unit, such as Knights, who normally have a HIGH maintenace cost, would additionally place a burden on Income.
The above is EXTREMELY effective in reducing the Income Advantage/Imbalance; and, adds an additionl strategic element.
---
The question then would be, how would the AI react by being saddled with such a restriction?
To that, is the AI "selective" in choosing units to be placed as Govenors? Does the AI place its highest Acumen units in provinces with the greatest income potential? Or, does it place high Acumen units randomly? Or, is it selective, yet place them on a first come, first place basis; or, does it ignore Acumen levels altogether?
Importantly, is the AI capable of swapping out a low Acumen unit for a higher Acumen unit, as they become available?
---
*If*, the unit type can be restricted, that'll be great, but the above questions, probably need to be positive for it to work well for the AI; then, again, maybe not.
Toranaga, as far as governors go, I've noticed that the AI now does extremely well in its selections. High income provinces have high acumen gov's and provinces that give general's stars go to governors who are already decent generals, so that the AI does well. Also it will bring its governors along on campaign with its armies, so it will not be saddled with anything should you restrict the types of units that can be govs. Though I don't see why you want to control income like this anyhow? If you play a rich side like you did with Sicily then it may seem you have too much money too easily, but this is not the case for all other sides in the game, especially ones that don't rely on trade income. Wes is right I think, in wanting to curtail trade a bit more to chill out the massive incomes that come in from that, I don't think governors need to be tinkered with. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif
ToranagaSama
10-16-2003, 01:18
Thanks for your comments. Guess it s/b workable, now I just need to see if its possible. Anyone have thoughts on how this can be done?
---
Quote[/b] ] Though I don't see why you want to control income like this anyhow? If you play a rich side like you did with Sicily then it may seem you have too much money too easily, but this is not the case for all other sides in the game, especially ones that don't rely on trade income.
I find that the game allows for WAY TOO MUCH MONEY I can't emphasize this enough. In most RTS there is a built-in method of increasing difficulty by decreasing "resources". With TW, its a bit more complicated, but, in relation, Florins equal resources. There really isn't any other way, except to fiddle with Govenors.
Why?
Well, think about it. Look at all the work Wes has done. The basic purpose is to "balance" the game. Unmodded and played w/o restrictions, the game is ridiculously "unbalanced". For instance, the Human can create extensive trade networks; raking in HUGE sum of Florins. The AI, on the other hand, is woefully inept, leading to the type of relatively one sided game---the Human beating up on the AI.
After awhile it becomes not a challenge
Reverse the situation, where the AI is raking in HUGE sums, while the Human is struggling, then you've got an interesting game.
The MedMod goes a very long way toward improving the ability of the AI to earn Florins, BUT little has been done to, conversely, reduce the Human's ability to earn.
The way I do it, is by utilizing a set of Rules I've developed for myself. These Rules, along with the MedMod have made for some rather challenging Campaigns.
Even with the MedMod, the "Campaign game still is imbalanced, in favor of the Human. MUCH less so thanks to Wes. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif
I normally play by restricting Govenors, as I described in my previous post. Of course, that's just for myself, not the AI.
With little money, you have to be more creative; and every Campaign is different. I ALWAYS find it curious, reading how some people will have like 300,000 in the bank and 5,000 income, and, yet, are having trouble beating the AI. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif
With a LOT of money, the game becomes pretty much like a run of the mill RTS type game. Where it turns into a "Race" to tech up. With fewer funds, a player needs to be more "Strategic" in his choices of what to build, where to build, how much to build, etc.
Quote[/b] ]Wes is right I think, in wanting to curtail trade a bit more to chill out the massive incomes that come in from that, I don't think governors need to be tinkered with. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif
Hmmmm...how long have you been playing?
Simply on a "realism" basis, I find it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif to have a Peasant as a Govenor
The ONLY reason for it, is that one wants to maximize one's income versus an AI that's ridiculously hampered in doing the same---maximizing income.
You consider the Scilians to be "rich", I consider them to be rather poor:
1) They start with only 3 provinces;
2) Utilizing a rule restricting Govenors to Knights only, then the Scilians have, a King and 2 Knight units. In most Campaigns, one Knight unit will have 2 Acumen and the other will have ZERO. This means that ONE province will have NO Govenor at all; one will have a Govenor with NO Acumen; and the last will have a Govenor with LOW Acumen. If the King is poor, having low Acumen, too, then you're in a good bit of trouble. I've had Kings with 1-2 Acumen.
Now, imagine, previous versions of the MedMod or the non-Moded version of the game. In order to get a Govenor for your third province, and to possibly swap the present Govenors for ones with better Acumen, you've got to "Train" them. That means teching up to building Knights A lengthy and costly process.
So, bascially, in the above scenario, you've little money and NEED to train Knights and, in the case of the Scilians, build ships, in addition to doing the "normal" things necessary for a Campaign. All this with the Florins you start the game with and an income of 300-400 Florins, which steadly descrease as you Train and Build. Meanwhile, the AI is steadily churning away, operating w/o the same restrictions.
I find this challenging, and don't comprehend why everyone else doesn't.
But, now there's a new version of the MedMod and the Scilians are "teched-uped" from the outset. Yet, the MedMod has the AI factions operating so much more efficiently that things seem to be developing quite interestingly so far.
Give it a go, if you care to, you may not like it, but I do. I'd be truly interested in your opinion.
~ TorangaSama
hellenes
10-16-2003, 04:07
I like the removing the generic units from conquered land idea. That would make the expanding harder and the homelands easily defendable, now about the tornangas restrain i have one question how do you restrain in case of orthodox or muslim factions?(i like the idea but im playn whith orth mus most of the time so no knights lol)
If it was possible the best idea would be if the faction defnding the homeland province before the date that it loses it historically it would be realistic to have to all the troops increased morale and valour(depending on the importance of the province) thus leading to more accurate map in 1453 and making thhe spawn of huge empires nearly imossible.And also for the attacking part if the turks are attacking trebzond before the era that byzantines losin it they (the turks) wont get any valour bonus but the byz if they attack greece in 1362 (iirc) they will get a bonus and not the faction defending it they would get higher bonus if the province wasnt held by the historical owner...
IMHO this way the human player would prefer to follow the historical path and would face the other parts of the map recembling more closely to the historical time.
Interesting thoughts Toranaga, I thought you were talking about AI governors primarily, but you meant yourself http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I think I'm gonna take your advice and come up with some restrictions for myself. Try to give the game a more personal feel. And personally, i've played a whole lot, campaigns have become soooo trivial, even in Wes's mod. I can rule with the Swiss for god's sake http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I'll post on my new restricted results later.
I like the idea of removing missle type units from conquered lands, and making them all regionalized. I think more will needed to be added though, not just splitting up the current ones among factions. The Italian, english, Byz, and Muslim already have theirs.
What about limiting regualar Archers to the European territories, in early only, and then starting with the Crossbow units split out to the different factions? You may still need to add a few more.
I think coucquored lands producing generic spearmen should be ok, or maybe just Peasents. Of course, this may SOUND ok in theory, but if the AI doesn't handle it well, then it won't work.
Outremer units available to all christian factions also seems an unfair advantage. I think they should wait and be used with a seperate Outremer Faction.
Also, Outremer Infantry appear to be SUPER TROOPS. They are ANTI CAV, ARMOR PIERCING, Fight in Multiple Ranks, and have an great attack value. I think they need to be looked at.
Can no one help me with my question ? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
Jeebus_Frist
10-16-2003, 18:25
I didn't see your question. I unzipped the file into the folder where I had installed my fresh MTW:VI copy. For some reason it created a new folder called "Total War" so I simply copied the files and pasted them into my existing TW folder choosing yes over-write all. Works fine. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
I still think some units should be able to be raised. Problem is they should maybe only be able to stay in the province they were made in - but I don't think this is possible with MTW. For example, citizen's helping to defend cities, or whatever.
ToranagaSama
10-17-2003, 09:02
Quote[/b] (Hobot @ Oct. 16 2003,02:07)]Interesting thoughts Toranaga, I thought you were talking about AI governors primarily, but you meant yourself http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I think I'm gonna take your advice and come up with some restrictions for myself. Try to give the game a more personal feel. And personally, i've played a whole lot, campaigns have become soooo trivial, even in Wes's mod. I can rule with the Swiss for god's sake http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I'll post on my new restricted results later.
Yeah, I restrict myself, but I also think it would be interesting for a Mod to do the same for the AI. Specifically, the MedMod.
The Swiss used to be my favorit faction. The reason you can rule with the Swiss, is because the freaking game is hard-coded to keep the HRE from steamrolling them. Think about it, in the Early period, at least, the Swiss have potentionally very rich provinces and are virtually incapable of defending, in the beginning, from a land attack. Yet, the HRE NEVER attacks It drives me crazy.
Can't wait to hear your results. At request, next week (or so) I'm going to post a detailed outline of how I, generally, Campaign and Battle.
---
hellenes,
Interesting thoughts, requires some contemplation and probably not doable, unfortunately.
I've only played a Muslim faction once, in the beginning. I only play the Catholics, as I find it more interesting when I encounter the Muslims. By doing so, I keep from learning the Muslim units too well, and am often surprised. I still remember the first time I encountered those Spear throwing foot soldiers. Haha, I had a devil of a time trying to figure out who was hitting my units with "Arrows" Once I did I had an even harder time figuring out a way to deal with them. Nothing like when you're first learning a game.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Anyway, restricting your Govenors is just the same with Muslim provinces. Just use units that are the "Knight" equivalent(s). I think Gholum Bodyguards are the unit.
Let me know how your Campaign works out.
BTW, if anyone wants to make things even more difficult, get rid of those Border Forts and Watch Towers When the game starts I "Destroy" them immediately---gets you a few Florins as a bonus too. When you capture a province that has one, destroy it immediately
This way the Human is disadvantaged, but the AI is not and can use its Border Forts and Watch Towers. In order to "spy" the Human must use Agents, Emissaries, Princeses, "Spies" or Assassins. I also suggest you limit the number of each Agent allowed by the Human. 2-3 Emissaries/Assassins only and 1 Spy PER province.
Does anyone know if Border Forts and Watch Towers can be modded out? It'd be interesting to see how the AI would react without the use of BF/WT. My hope is that the AI would then turn to Agents in order to "spy".
Oh and that reminds me---THANK YOU WES Gosh, no more Assassin "madness" going on with the MedMod.
ToranagaSama
10-17-2003, 09:20
Quote[/b] (monkian @ Oct. 16 2003,12:38)]Can no one help me with my question ? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
I answered your question in my last post to you. Re-read it. In any event, I strongly, suggest you simply un-install and start with a Fresh install Less problems.
Ugh
Ok- I'll have to do a re-install after I've finished by Byzantine Empire GA campaign.
So here's what I came up with Toranaga... I decided to play the game as a mercenary faction. My services could be bought (unwittingly by the unknowing AI) simply by offering me one of their princesses in marriage. Thus I would have very few allies, and would fight exclusively with their enemies. So I chose the Byzantines in the Early Era for this. I gave up all provinces but Constantinople and the three islands of Crete, Rhodes and Cyprus (since I would need a huge navy to get trade from Constantinople and to allow me to strike anywhere in the Meditteranean). All my four governors were cataphracts, and I would not conquer any more land than those four province for the duration of the game, but simply help out my allies by beating up on their enemies. Well, lets just say this turned out to be great fun By 1131 I had an elite 16 unit army under a good general, and began to harass my Russian allies' Hun enemies. Then the Turks declared war on me, being allied with the Hun, and attempted to invade Constantinople. 4000 men to 1000, I kill 1000 + lose less than a 100, and they run. Two years later, both the Turks and the Huns invade Constantinople with an allied army number well over 5000 men total. I had around 1000. Well, this time I killed about 2000, losing about 115 and they ran http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif Anyhow, my point is, that this turned out to be a very fun way to play a campaign.
Then I downloaded medmod 3.12 and the save won't load...so I guess I'll have to start again. However I see that the factions' unit selection is vastly limited now, so i'm gonna try and play a normal campaign before I do this Merc-style thing, but damned it was fun. You basically exist as a chaotic faction that fights a lot and gains nothing...lol http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
Ok, I've re-installed Total War from scratch and the mod seems to have installed itself properly this time.
Just one question, are the Byz Kataphractoi supposed to have bows ? I'm just wondering if I've done anything wrong.
Cheers
They're supposed to have bows Monkian http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
ToranagaSama
10-18-2003, 14:53
Quote[/b] (monkian @ Oct. 18 2003,05:51)]Ok, I've re-installed Total War from scratch and the mod seems to have installed itself properly this time.
Just one question, are the Byz Kataphractoi supposed to have bows ? I'm just wondering if I've done anything wrong.
Cheers
Great http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
More questionsssssss......ahhhh http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
Enjoy. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
BTW, I hope you've installed the patch, otherwise you may have to do a "new" fresh install. Just thought you'd like to know. Anyone sure on this?
---
Hobot,
Not exactly what I had in mind, but gg
Glad you're having a ball.
BTW, the latest version of the MedMod doesn't really alter anything in the way of restricting govenors.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
Cool- do the Byz not have any super heavy cavalry at all now then ?
The Byz can produce Gothic Kns as buildable mercs in the Late era. I wanted to keep their other units comparable to the Muslims and Huns in the earlier eras.
As for the patch, it consists of nothing more than an updated executable, about 600k larger IIRC, so you can paste it over the existing one and keep right on going. You don't even have to start a new game, or shouldn't anyway.
I think the latest patch is great. I did have to start over, but now the AI produces FAR fewer archers, as they are only available to them in their homelands, and those of other sides who have the same ranged unit (at least I think this is how it's layed out now). So I got my wish http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Guilhabert de Castres
10-24-2003, 21:17
Some feedback on 3.12
Early Byz into High Period:
--ship types available are limited to 10/0, even with building upgrades--surely not intended.
--not one Crusade launched from Europe into the Middle East.
--I gather the Pronoia Allagion have an allowable build appearance later in the game? When did they historically first appear?
--Turks seem very much under-powered.
--VG units I think should be two turn builds. Men for these units came throuogh from Kiev and were, strictly speaking, mercenaries. Popping them out one per turn goes beyond what was historically possible; in fact, you might consider making them mercenary purchase only in Constantinople.
--towards the end of the test I had some massive Spanish armies all over former Egyptian provinces. None of these huge armies had much more than basic spearmen however...
Late Period HRE:
--much improved with stronger Swabian swordsmen; Dane and Swede armoured huscarls remain astonishingly lethal.
--this problem in not having the ability to build basic archers remains a problem.
--Swiss remain far too easy to snuff out with the mounted xbow technique. Some research needed to give them some cavalry and more archers. Perhaps mod the maps to have steep far more forested terrain.
--the number of factions attacking is even worse than in vanilla MTW. I would consider padding out the HRE with peasants and basic spearmen and archers to lower the likelihood of these mass pile-ons (by turn 20 I had 8 factions at war with me, none of whom I attacked).
GdC
I updated the ships section at the bottom of the unit stats xcel page if you want to look at it. It's about the only part that is up-to-date.
The Pronoiai Allagion are a high-era unit.
I had waffled some on the Varangian Guards. I guess since they are as strong as high-era huscarles that they should be two-turn units. They are only available in Constan.
I went in and gave Switzerland some more buildings for the Late era, part of a game-wide overhaul. I also set up Tyrolia to produce Arbs from the start, along with Mtd X-bows. The two provinces should complement each other nicely now.
I was surprised at how underdeveloped the Egyptians, Almohads and English were, so they should get going much sooner now. I also added level one versions of most all the troop producers to most all provinces, since you would think that the basic stuff would be generic by this time. I also added castle-level buildings to most of the advanced provinces, namely the "second-cities" of most of the major powers. Some other buildings were shifted around, especially the ones that are now unique, and I deleted odd stuff like merchants in provinces that no longer have goods and palaces in non-capital provinces, since you don't need them for courts anymore.
In my current game, which I posted on in the 3.12 thread, the HRE did ok, even though it was normally at war with about four neighbors the whole time. I am reluctant to give the HRE any more starting units, for fear that it may be tempted to rush its neighbors at the outset of the game.
I haven't started on the high era yet, as it took over two hours to do the late era. I'll try and get the high done sometime this weekend.
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