View Full Version : Turkish Delight
Hi all,
Now we have a patch http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif I'm going to start another campaign. As it happens however I'm going to go back to the main game and take the only faction I've not tried - the Turks.
My question is simple - is there a general consensus for the 'best' way to play the Turks? Take out the Byz first? Go for the rich Egyptian lands? Take it slow? Interested to see people's different ideas for what looks like should be a good faction to play (unit tips would be nice too!http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Cheers.
Snowhobbit
10-10-2003, 13:51
Im not good on units, but I can stress the importance to attack the Byzantines quickly, they get too powerful if you dont.
The_Emperor
10-10-2003, 14:08
If you look at the Turkish PBM Campaign thread in the Throne Room you can see how I did it.
Basically you should attack the Byzantines and Sack Trebizond and Constantinople ASAP.
Constantinople is the central point of the Byzantine Empire where all their unit retraining takes place, take it from them and they are left with little more than peasants and militia to train in the other provinces, while you have those well-developed training facilities for your troops
And of course you gain +2 command in those provinces bringing your generals up so they can compete with those rock hard Byz heirs.
Saracens and Turcoman horse are the units to have in Early, working your way to Turcoman Foot as your main archer units.
Hi,
Gracias both - I'll give it a shot
Cheers.
Pellinor
10-10-2003, 14:25
If you have any horse archers or Turcoman horse hanging around doing nothing, send them in to a Byzantine province to shoot up a few Byz infantry and then withdraw. If you do it right you take no casualties (Byz have nothing that can catch you unless you're careless), your troops gain a bit of valour, and the Byz end up that little bit weaker.
NewJeffCT
10-10-2003, 15:58
I've played the Turks twice now, and both times I was very aggressive early on... the first time, I attacked the Egyptians in Antioch (then Tripoli, then Palestine, etc...)
That went pretty well and I ended up stopping in Egypt and wiped out the Egyptians quickly. With control of good farmland in Rum and a few other places, as well as great trade goods in Antioch, Tripoli & Egypt, I just let my money grow and won pretty easily...
The next campaign, I attacked the Byzantines early, snagged Georgia, Trebizond and Anatolia... however, my attack died out after that before I got to Nicea and Constantinople, and I ended up making peace with the Byzantines, as you can seemingly only do in early. From there, I tried to build up my trade empire, and I also took Khazar from the rebels. From there, I would just try to snag stray provinces here and there - when the Spanish attacked my Muslim brothers the Almohads, I invaded and took Valencia... when the Sicilians sank one of my dhows, I snagged Sicily and Naples... and, I concentrated on building a military academy in Rum for the High era JHI. I managed to stay peaceful with the Byz until the Late era (they expanded West into Europe...)
Since the Turks are land-locked at first, I can only suggest being very aggressive early and going for either Antioch & Tripoli, or the Byzantine provinces.
And, get used to use horse archers and turcoman horse
de la Valette
10-10-2003, 16:00
Quote[/b] (The_Emperor @ Oct. 10 2003,08:08)]If you look at the Turkish PBM Campaign thread in the Throne Room you can see how I did it.
Basically you should attack the Byzantines and Sack Trebizond and Constantinople ASAP.
Constantinople is the central point of the Byzantine Empire where all their unit retraining takes place, take it from them and they are left with little more than peasants and militia to train in the other provinces, while you have those well-developed training facilities for your troops
And of course you gain +2 command in those provinces bringing your generals up so they can compete with those rock hard Byz heirs.
Saracens and Turcoman horse are the units to have in Early, working your way to Turcoman Foot as your main archer units.
I would second that line of attack. The only downside of taking Constantinople is that you will face wave after wave of Crusaders, so be prepared to keep a good garison there.
The Egyptian's tend to field a large number of troops, but they tend to be peasents and desert archers who are easy to rout and capture.
The only other major problem facing you will be the Horde once they appear and if you are not careful all your best laid plans will go http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
NewJeffCT
10-10-2003, 16:52
Sorry, got interrupted before I could finish above. With the Turks, you do have to get used to micro-managing battles. One of their most effective weapons – especially in Early – are horse archers and Turcoman horse. However, as they are normally skirmish units, they are somewhat high maintenance in combat situations.
Saracen infantry are also invaluable, I have found. Muwahid foot are good because they have higher morale and are better in the desert, but they are not armored and number only 60. The armor and numbers help them last longer against the Byzantine Kats and the Catholic medium & heavy cavalry.
My strategy last time around, techwise, was the not build any horse farmer upgrades in Rum – concentrate there on building up to a Fortress, Master Spearmaker and Military Academy… build horse farmer upgrades in Armenia to get the bonus on Armenian Heavy Cavalry and (I think) Lesser Armenia to get the Ghulam Cavalry bonus. Use Syria and other provinces to get your other troop types – Futuuwas and Ghazi, and any naptha throwers (if you like them). I like Futuuwas for their ability to launch a few arrows and then chop away enemy spearmen. Ghazi are good shock troops and I always seem to end up with like 11 or 13 of my original 60… but, they will have gotten 2 or 3 valor in the battle.
In all, I find the Turks one of the more satisfying factions to play because they have such interesting units and they do often require higher maintenance.
The_Emperor
10-10-2003, 17:09
If you do attack Constantinople, if it looks like you cannot hold it do the drastic course of action and Burn Everything http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
At the very least you will remove some very valuble training facilities from the enemy and make a ton of cash to boot http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
When in doubt, slash and Burn
If you are going against Byzantians, remember that their production is extremely centralized (constantinople). So that they can produce one advanced troop each turn. This is a good limitation against them. I suggest avoiding straight-on attacks and instead use guerilla tactics http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif
Which means; emphasize Turcoman horse production. Declare war, get into a province; as there will be less advanced troops, you should kill good amount of bulk troops. And Turocman horse are ideal kataphraktoi killers (YES!http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif, which means you can even take out heirs and emperors during guerilla incursions.
What use will this be? Simply war of attrition. Byzantian army will shrink thanks to this tactic and cannot even hold their provinces after a while. Go straight with alims to increase muslim population, which will increase the likelihood of rebellions.
The whole idea is to weaken Byzantians; before destroying them. If you weaken them enough, you can destroy without any casualties at all.
Hit and run in other words
I have tried the Turks twice. Both times I took out both the Byzantines and the Eqyptians only to have the Spanish roll me up with Crusades. Speedy desert troops are nice but my problems start when slow heavy troops catch me.
Funky Phantom
10-10-2003, 18:48
I found that a good tactic for defeating the Egyptians very quickly was to invade Tripoli almost as soon as the game starts, since the Egyptian Sultan starts in Antoich, thus isolating the Egyptian king and i think one unit of Nubians in Antioch away from the rest of the Egyptian lands, then crushing him from all sides before he gets heirs, thus wiping Egypt from the map and giving you time to either invade the Byzantines first or mop up the Egyptian provinces slowly.
Be wary though, they tend to reappear as the King will have an heir in the pipeline when you eliminate the faction originally, so their comeback may be rapid.
motorhead
10-10-2003, 19:42
Early/High turks: I've tried byz-first and egypt-first approaches. Both work well, but i'd say the path of least resistance is egypt. Byzs start each era with a small, but pesky navy that can allow them to launch sneak attacks, which ends up bogging down your troops. Head south (i usually wait 5 turns or so from the start until a few heirs have matured to lead armies) and don't stop until you come to Egypt/Cyrencia. Ally with Almos if possible, leave enough troops to keep almos from invading, then turn your attentions north. Start getting a navy in the water and farm/trade buildings up in the wealthier provinces you've just conquered. In high period i avoid taking georgia and hope that the GH goes to war with the russkies.
Late turks: Some interesting choices here for the turks, see this thread (http://pub133.ezboard.com/fshoguntotalwarfrm5.showMessage?topicID=9597.topic) over at totalwar.com. Enemies all around but the Turk unit roster is at its peak. I used a rum/treb/constan flex-army strat suggested in the thread and it worked great.
Since you've played every faction but the turks, i hope you're accustomed to the lighter/faster/flexible units that make up their army. The catholic spear/sword/missile/cav tactics don't work well with the Turks.
motorhead
10-10-2003, 23:09
Quote[/b] (jadast @ Oct. 10 2003,13:35)]I have tried the Turks twice. Both times I took out both the Byzantines and the Eqyptians only to have the Spanish roll me up with Crusades. Speedy desert troops are nice but my problems start when slow heavy troops catch me.
Some turk players swear by all cav armies, but these people are psycho-ninja-masters http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif . In desert battles catholic armies should be fairly easy as their armour tires them out and camel troops do very well against horse cav. Here's a rundown of my favorite turk units for those hvy catholic armies outside the desert:
1) Saracen infantry are carbon copies of chivalric sergeants, including the poor morale. Build mosque and ribat in your troop build provinces and the Sars can become your wall to pin down their spears/cav.
2) Build AHC and Turc horse in their valor bonus provs, (mosques/ribats too).
Turcoman horse: +speed. use to harass/disorganize enemy formations. Lure hvy cav away from their formations, dice them up if they stray too far or keep them running around the map to be dealt with later - use knights impetuosness against them. On attack use them as flankers to turn formations and draw them out. On defense, send them out and let your enemies leave a long bloody trail to your defenders. Once main battle starts, use them to chop up supporting missile units or do rear attacks where you need help. With their speed they are great for chasing routers.
AHC: Without a serious valor advantage, don't send them toe-to-toe with hvy catholic knights and expect them to win. Ignore the 'Heavy' in their name, they're in the middle ground between mounted sergeants and feudal knights so use them mainly for heavy hitting flank attacks.
3) Ghazis are your friends, high morale, very good charge and attack, +speed, someone called them 'fire-and-forget' missiles, which is pretty accurate. Target them at enemy foot units, even if they don't win the fight, they often fight to the last man and leave the winner in shreds. Turks get a build discount for them so crank them out and don't worry about their horrific losses. Keep an eye on them as they are impetuous.
4) Hybrid archer/foot units. Unlike catholic factions, these missile troops can do serious damage in melee. All of them have shields so they do fairly well in missile duels (set them in loose formation for +1 armour as they have fairly dense close formations)
Futuwwas - my favorite, good morale/charge/attack, impetous, all eras, excellent unit for flank attacks once the armies have engaged - their defense is poor so don't use them head-on unless you have no choice.
Turcoman foot - always build in their valor bonus province (anatolia i think), all eras, better defense than attack, not really a favorite. Need bowyers guild, but just add swordsmith and build futuwwas instead.
Ottoman infantry - rum build for +valor, late only, bonus vs. armored troops. I admit, i use them because they look cool http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif , but futus are the better choice. Their bonus against armored is nice, but charge/attack is weak.
5) xbows: I like them for their range and power against armored foes (like those catholic knights). No arbs except as mercs (i try and grab them when possible), but you can make do with crossbows. On attack i set them in 3-deep, loose formation, closely supported by saracens, and move them into firing range.
6) Janissary Hvy Inf: high/late period. these are your heavy hitters to counter most everything. Their polearms let them chew up both armored foot and mounted troops but don't let them eat a cav charge (they only get small defensive bonus against cav and no supporting rank bonuses like spears), they'll still win, but i hate seeing 10 JHI go down in the initial impact.
In sum:
- saracens counter their spears/cav
- turcoman horse to harass and disrupt before battle, attack missile or rear attacks during, chase routers after
- AHC flank attacks, not for meeting their hvy cav
- ghazis meet any foot (especially if armored)
- hybrid archer/foot: archers until main battle then use their good charge/attack for flank attacks
- xbows: standard anti-armor service
- JHI: Terminators. They are your hitmen to take out the toughest units. Good for killing generals.
Orda Khan
10-11-2003, 19:58
All you need do is think historically and you will do ok http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
....Orda
Marshal Murat
10-12-2003, 00:05
What i prefer with the Turks is to build a large army, and strike out at Byzantines, and take them, but be careful, once you build a grand mosque, you can not build another (unless in patch)
hellenes
10-12-2003, 00:56
I just will add to the aforementioned that:
Turn one move all ur troops down to edessa and syria (sultan in syria the 5 star gen in edessa).
Turn two move you sultan to tripoli and the 5star gen (with rum governorship) to antioch the egypt sult withdraws (there is no fort) and cause he has no heirs nice 9820 fl ransom.
note while doin this build INNS nothing else and the mercenaries will roll to the fresh turko-egyptian war you willl get any kind of merc u can imagine (ital light,feudals,vikings even byz cav etc etc).
Turn three you heir is at age and u can move ur sultan to antioch cause he has to be close to the new conquered provinces to keep the loyality high.Your 5 star gen goes to syria to lead the hired merceneries and your heir leads the national troops in tripoli.
Turn four your heir moves to syria and the 5 star gen to palist the egyptians will withdraw.
Turn five push to sinai and attack the egypt sultan in arabia if he has all his heirs there (happened 2 me many times) nice 11200fl ransom finish the egyptian forces in egypt the next turn and u have 23000fl to hire as many mercs as u want the crush the byz in 6 turns (ive taken the cost in 1100 and all the turkish empire GA in 1110)
Good luck... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Take Rum and tech up to nuclear missiles. Rinse and repeat.
Leet Eriksson
10-12-2003, 14:09
since the turks do not start with good generals(unlike the egyptians)try elimnating the egyptian sultan early,this will make all his territories rebel,wait a few turns until Shahinshah leaves the huge army of bediouns and saharans and goes into sinai and bribe him,this will give you a nice 6 star general to wage war against the "frankish crusaders" if you ever encountered one anyway,the bediouns can even rout chivalrics in desert terrain(just don't use them outside desert territories).
I second everything motorhead said about the units.
Build lots of Turcoman Horse and attack every turn to pick of their(whoever) good troops, just Turcomans. The Byz are infantry heavy and can't catch you and Beduoins are perfect pincushions and can't catch you.
Build lots of Ghazis, fire and forget. I save any scraps and after a few battles can usually put together a unit or two of V3 or V4 Ghazis. Fire those off and watch what they do to whoever they meet. Stick them under a good general for extra crispiness. Watch them they make Knights seem cautious.
I usually build up Rum and Armenia and build Inns in Syria and Edessa first. Mercs are needed to beat whoever you choose, especially the Byzantines. I like to attack the Byzantines first but almost without fail the Egyptians back stab even if allied so I would get rid of them first. They have extremely rich provinces to boot.
I've never tried the Tripoli cut-off strategy, but I just bought VI so I think thats coming up next.
Funky Phantom
10-12-2003, 19:31
Having read this topic and previously added my own thoughts to it, i felt inspired to start a new game with the Turks on easy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
On the first turn i used the army you start with in syria to attack Tripoli and took it without a fight (i think they get scared by the 4 star general) while also moving what i could spare from my other provinces into striking distance of Antioch. On the second turn i attacked Antioch with everything i had (amounted to about 485 troops i think, 2 spears, 2 desert archers, 2 HA's and 2 Bedouins) and successfully killed the Egyptian King a mere 2 turns into the game :P
Ive taken all the rebel provinces except Egypt and im still yet to see the return of the Egyptians http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Nice to get the Egyptians out the way early, i hate fighting in desert and i find the Elmoheads never have any interest in Egypt, even when undefended so theyre definitely better neighbours http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
I bribed that Shahinshah (6 star Egpytian general guy) bloke when he turned rebel with only his unit in Arabia so now i have two good desert generals should the Spanish take out the Elmo's and come knocking at my door http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I was also inspired to play the Turks and investigate who to attack first, Egypt or Byzantium? I think Egypt is the best bet because you can defeat them quickly, by 1103 they were history, giving you enough time to deal with Byz before they get too strong. You also have a good chance to capture the Sultan and snag a 10,000 ransom. With no threat coming from the Almo's you have a great stategic position and tremendous resources to expand against Byz. And even at this later date I faced only a handful of Kats and Byz Inf, and fewer Varangians.
When I attacked Byz first, I took Trebizond and Constantinople with ease but was interupted by a crusade before I could take all of Anatolia and then the Egyptians took Syria and I had a real dogfight on my hands with not a lot of cash to pay for it. This is only one example but since you have the tactical advantage over the AI I would go for the easy money 1st and attack Egypt.
Hi all,
Many thanks to all that have offered advice. Had a few problems obtaining the patch so have barely kicked off the campaign so far, but I can see there are two distinct paths even from the first turn. When I played as the Egyptians the huge financial boost from the coastal provinces gave me more money than I could actually spend and made for a relatively comfortable campaign. Whilst this might make this campaign a little easier I'm tempted to go take a path I haven't been down before and head for the Byz (perhaps cripple the Egyptians first rather than wipe them out). Thanks Motorhead for the unit run-down, most helpful. I've used Saracens and Ghazis in custom battles before now, and will definitely be recruiting plenty. Never really used futuuwas so it will be interesting to try them. As for the fast, flexible nature nature of the Turkish units - I'm definitely more used to the catholic style, and managing those archers/mounted archers is going to be a challenge
Cheers.
RJV, I was also Catholic in style but decided to follow some of the advice in the above posts and wear down the Byz with horse archer raids. Man was it a blast. And surprisingly succesful.
After Egypt's demise I had a mess of money and a lot of Turc horse and regular HA's. I sent a full stack of cav into lesser Armenia to harass the Byz. I had 10 HA's (mostly Turcs)and 6 med and heavy horse made up of Guhlams, Armenians and a couple of Merc Kwar's. I divided into 3 groups, 2 hunter/killer groups with 4 ha's and 2 spear cav a piece and a reserve/leader group with the heavy cav. I sent the two groups wide pulling the Byz line completly apart. I was able to avoid battle for the most part but a timely charge by a supporting spear usually freed up any snagged units. I was targeting his Byz Inf and Kats but started to notice his other units breaking under the arrow fire. By this time they were also extremly dispersered and I was able to gather my spears together and capture his exposed leader (those 6* Kats do take forever to die though). After that I overwhelmed any individual unit still fighting untill the army fled. Battle won.
I think the key is going in with numbers. You have to have enough arrows to make any unit that goes after you pay. It's also good to pick on armies without a lot of light cav.
Anyway try it. Even if you botch it you can retreat before they can catch you.
Hi,
Well I was going to go straight for the Byz, but that strategy of getting rid of Egypt looked too tempting http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Problem was I didn't have much left at the end of it - still getting used to all these light cav and I tend to lose one or two in the excitement... Still, it's all part of the learning experience (though tell that to my dead archers!http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif. Made the mistake then of attacking the Byz with too few units (over-confidence is a dangerous thing, and hindsight is always 20-20) and got creamed. Bummer.
But I shall return (with more units this time http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ).
Cheers.
I always take out the Egyptians first. The byzantines are likely to attack you, while Egypt always attack you. And I really like these early desert battles.
o_loompah_the_delayer
10-14-2003, 15:28
Quote[/b] (The_Emperor @ Oct. 10 2003,11:09)]If you do attack Constantinople, if it looks like you cannot hold it do the drastic course of action and Burn Everything http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Burn everythng but the castle Retreat one unit in there and wait out the seige. It should be able to hold out five years or more giving you time to raise the seige. You dont want to loose the castle, to get it back would require about 30 years and and 16000 fl that you simply wont have for a long time
About the genral strategy, attacking Egypt first is the better option in my opinion. If you are short of troops use mercenaries (Antioch, Tripoli, Palestine etc are RICH). Also if you leave the Byz alone they tend to expand into Russia and when you do attack the Emperor is usually of entertaining the Lithuanian woodsmen giving you an easy path.
Attacking Byz first is however much more fun, when I did it I barely pulled through by the skin of my teeth. The Byz kept landing troops behind constantinople as I had no anvy for ages, which made life very difficult, and then the Crusaders and the Egyptians with their hideous (but weak) hordes also attacked.
Doug-Thompson
10-15-2003, 16:57
Somebody should mention Jihad. I realize this is more of a starting strategy, "Byz or Egyptain" thread, but the combination of really good Turkish archer and cavalry units makes their Jihads particularly effective, in my opinion.
I tried both expansion options over the last two days and the Egypt first is definitely the way to go.
My first game as the Turks I went for the Byzantines first. I built up Rum so that it could build Turcomans and AHC, built a few of those, hired some Mercs and when the Byz moved a large stack from Trebizond north kicked off our war in 1095. The toughness of the Byz meant losses were fairly high and could only really be replaced by Mercs, which took a lot of money. I managed to push the Byz west past Constantinople and took Greece and Bulgaria. There was a lot of back and forth as they attacked from the islands into Nicea and Anatolia. They had also managed to take Moldavia and had a Port there so could attack anywhere along the Black Sea coast. Attacking Moldavia from Bulgaria is a River battle and I didn't have the oomph to do it. Then the Egyptians did their backstack in 1115 attacking Syria with 2800 Peasants. They even took Rum briefly with their Sultan and Heirs. I took Rum back and slowly pushed Egypt south and had them down to Sinai and Egypt and 2000 Peasants in 1125 when the game crashed and the last save I had was back in 1105. Not interested in doing all that again, so I started a new game.
I tried the Tripoli cutoff on the restart. I built Inns in Syria and Edessa and started Rum and Armenia towards AHC and Turcomans. I attacked Tripoli and Antioch in 1090, and won but missed bagging the Sultan as he moved to Tripoli in 1090 and could retreat south. The Egyptians were very weak and using mainly homegrown troops I was able to push them back and kill them off in 1096. I only hired Faris x2, Arab Infantry x2, Italian Infantry and Mangonel x2. This meant I had more money and could build up my Homelands without a break in building. The Byz didn't attack, they always seem to focus north, but I had to hire some more troops, Mtd X-Bows x3 and Mil Sgts x4, to bulk up my forces before attacking them in about 1104, when Armenia could build AHC. By this time Syria, Edessa and Antioch could all build basic troops and help out the war effort. Using large stacks of Spearmen I cut of retreat from Lesser Armenia and Georgia by attcking Anatolia and Trebizond, surprisingly capturing a Prince (he had no stars) and getting 5000 Fl ransom. The Mtd X-bows did their job and skewered the 7* reliever from Constantinople and the Mil Sgts ground up the Byz Inf, the only problem was the Kats who didn't want to die. Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia and Moldavia all fell easily as the Emperor and all his heirs are in Sicily
Getting rid of Egypt early meant that I could build Farm improvements and even a Ship building province early on. It also gave me time to build up my provinces a bit so that I didn't have to rely on Mercs so extensively against the Byz and I didn't have to worry about a backstab and only had to devote men to one border army in Egypt. Its now 1122 and I will have ships coming out of Sinai in 5 years which is light years ahead of the other game where everything was devoted to troops and the heavy reliance on Merc strength meant money was scarce and many provinces were sitting idle.
I would never destroy anything in Constantinople. Its easy enough to get another army together in a few years to retake the city but the infrastructure there would take 50+ years to rebuild. Leave it standing, sure the enemy can use it for a few years but when you retake it so can you, 4 years for a Mosque and you have +3 Armour Ghazis or Spearmakers Workshop for Saracens
ShaiHulud
10-21-2003, 02:56
I've played the Turks a lot in MTW and just launched my first game in VI. The same strategy pretty much applies.
Attack Egypt IMMEDIATELY. The few forces you have are enough to cause the Egyptians to retreat from Antioch and Tripoli, and this gives you the Egyptian King's ransom 10K from the start is super-charging your conquests. I build a Inn early, hopefully to atract mercs that I can finish off Egypt with, quickly.
After Egypt (it took me four years to take it all, (because Egypt REVOLTED ), I create infra to build Saracens and ports/shipyards to both get trade moving and to control the Eastern Med. This is vital before attacking Byz (who are next on the menu ). It seems a rather long pause, but, it's necessary to get Saracens and ships, to confront the better Byz units and to prevent Byz raids behind my lines.
Maybe the AI has gotten smarter or maybe they were just lucky, but, the Byz confronted me with a 5-star or better general in every province. The most important thing to remember when fighting the Byz is that any (Early ) Byz army with 4, or more, Byz infantry, and two, or more, Kats will likely destroy 4 times their number. When they concentrate armies around a province, worry hehehe
I re-learned that lesson this game. Two Byz inf and a Kat, no prob. Bring ALL the heirs together, in a grand army? Disaster for Egypt Anyway, the Byz are now solely in possession of Bulgaria and Rhodes. Their infra can't produce killer units but the King still propagates heirs so they have some Kats left. I just ignored them while I took Africa all the way to Gibraltar (courtesy of the Italians who took it from the Almos and, then, attacked me in Egypt) .
A slight detour into Khazar and Peroslavl... who knew the Steppe cav could be so tough? They've earned some respect (although I DID give them a two valor advantage in generals) . It's about 1163 now and things are humming. Constantinople was trashed (by me ) but, everywhere, my infrastructure is high and over 4K in gold is coming in.
What I can't comprehend very well is that why would you attack Egypt first ? This just means a far larger border and is militarily unsound. The Egyptians love their peasnats and stand no chance whereas the Byz can do some serious damage if allowed to grow.
hellenes
10-21-2003, 03:34
See my post in the first page the main reason is MONEY
Dfinetly 10000 fl 1st ransom + very probable 9800fl 2nd ransom 19800 so build inns in all byz borther and hire ANY merc you likeThe byzantine armies wont stand a chance in the face of your 100% mercenery and proffecianal armies plus antioch can generate up to 12000fl per year+4000 tripoli 4000 egypt 2000pal nad rum there you are with 300000 fl in the bank even before the horde shows up
AHA http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif
invalidopcode
10-21-2003, 07:02
With all this talk of the Turks, I decided to give them another try...
Taking Egypt first gives you an nearless endless supply of money to quickly build your infrastructure. Then, once you get the Saracean Infantry and some Armenian Heavy, the Byz are pretty much yours. I also found Napalm to work well against the Byz, especially since they have better armor than you do early on.
You do indeed need to make a navy to defend the black sea and the eastern med. If not, expect some backdoor unhappiness from the Byz.
As soon as you have conquered Eqyptians and Byz the game is pretty much over. As long as you control the east part of the Med water, you can easily guard the 3 land paths into your territory - Egypt, Constantinople, province on far right. The only threat is the vastness of the Golden Horde and that is just a battler of attrition that you can easily win due to your gold from the Egyption provinces.
HTH,
Invalid Opcode
The Wizard
10-21-2003, 09:46
Quote[/b] (Fragony @ Oct. 14 2003,04:59)]I always take out the Egyptians first. The byzantines are likely to attack you, while Egypt always attack you. And I really like these early desert battles.
I hate the desert... it's barren and ugly. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif
In my first (and at least up until now, last) Turkish campaign the Egyptians never attacked me, in fact they never attacked anyone, until I assimilated them into my empire. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif (that was somewhere in the 13th Century if memory serves)
Hi all,
I loaded up the campaign, took a look at the Egyptians and thought 'Easy pickings'. And lo, it was ever thus. A nice hefty ransom for the king in the second turn. Build inns everywhere and move south. A couple of victories and a few new provinces later (with inns built of course) and the Egyptians are left with the King/Sultan and his small army in Egypt, and their six-star Gen with 200 men in Arabia. I wade into Egypt, ransom the King again, then hit the remaining few troops in Arabia. Job done, no more Egyptians and I have more money than I can spend. A nice frontier in Egypt should the Almos become restless, a couple of provinces taking the port/trade route of development, and the rest beginning the speciality route for Saracens, Ghazis and AHC. Oh and a hefty stack of assorted mercs to boot. Next step, consolidate to get my troops of choice and it's Constantinople here we come. My only problem, and it's the same problem I had before I started the campaign, is that I'm using the Turks as a catholic style army - perhaps not a problem I suppose, but I was trying to expand my horizons and go for a more mobile army, but I keep losing track of the horse archers I will keep persevering, and in the mean time, thanks to all who have replied offering advice, it is very much appreciated.
Cheers. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
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