View Full Version : Creative Assembly Archers on the wall!
Snowhobbit
10-13-2003, 07:38
I would prefer option number six.
Now do you think we can get that in Rome?
Isn't it already possible?
I'm sure I saw a screenshot of some infantry on a wall and being attacked by the enemy going up the ladders.
Snowhobbit
10-13-2003, 09:19
It might be possible, I was wondering about the opinion here...
Sir Robin
10-13-2003, 15:19
From the vids it appears as if units can be moved to the wall tops.
While it may not have been possible at the time, MTW having arrows flying from walls and towers with no one there was really annoying.
If it will be possibe, I would like to be able to place any troops on the wall, especially archers.
For the initial attack but also to provide fire from either side of a breach. It would make a siege battle more realistic, being that the attacker would need at least a 2:1 advantage.
It would make the siege warefare really http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
DeadRunner
10-13-2003, 18:42
will be nice to put ppl in wall http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
beautifull
.. errrrrrrrrr only... tinking i.. stay..... without words .....................................................................
I would like some projectile reserves on the walls (stone-for slingers, arrows, boiling oil etc. which can be used by auxilliary troops when they are ordered on the wall.
I would rather use my actual troops and be able to put them up on the walls than have auto defenses like Arrow Towers, etc.
Skidrowpunk
10-16-2003, 10:19
You see, that's one thing I've always missed in the Total War serie. Real sieges. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif. It's not very realistic when 200 peasants stands in front of a wall and breach it. Rather I'd like to use stormtowers and for defence it's not very realistic that the archers stands on the ground when there's possible to kill more enemy troops if they stand on the wall. I would of course also like the infantry to be able to stand on the wall. I think sieges always been the weakness of TW.
We should be allowed only to put our own men on the walls. It is absurd to train units and keep them there consistently since every castle has a maximum amount of men to keep in and it is relatively low.
Intrepid Sidekick
10-16-2003, 15:03
You can place your men on the walls.
They will help prevent the enemy scaleing the walls and allow you to fire arrows at the beseigers.
An obvious downside to this is the possibility of the enemy bringing down the wall that your troops stand upon with seige engines. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Where did all the people with brains go?
One of the first couple of RTW videos showed men on walls.
Many screenshots show them too.
It really shouldn't have required a developer to answer the question of whether there will be people on the walls...
The_Emperor
10-18-2003, 11:29
Quote[/b] (Intrepid Sidekick @ Oct. 16 2003,15:03)]You can place your men on the walls.
They will help prevent the enemy scaleing the walls and allow you to fire arrows at the beseigers.
An obvious downside to this is the possibility of the enemy bringing down the wall that your troops stand upon with seige engines. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Sounds like Siege warfare at its best... Excellent http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Thankyou Interpid Sidekick http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
Lord Rom
10-18-2003, 14:16
YES Just what i've been waiting for Now give me ai opponents who act more like humans. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
The Wizard
10-18-2003, 14:34
Weren't Roman auxiliary archers on the walls firing at the approaching Armenian assaulting army in the Armenians assaulting an Egyptian city defended by Romans movie?
Same for the movie with the two Roman houses assaulting the Greek city. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Fifth option. Best i think.
The fifth option is exactly what we're getting.
I expect it was a primary feature right from the beginning of development.
You all need to realise that we are getting option 5 and always were going to.
Then this pointless thread can fade into oblivion...
Knight_Yellow
10-19-2003, 03:07
wait so if i put say a bunch of archers up on the walls and one of them gets hit by an arrow could he technicaly die and fall off the wall.
that would be so f***** cool.
if the little details like that get added i wont care if im winning or loosing as long as theres guys getting slaughtered all over the place.
*drools*
JeromeGrasdyke
10-19-2003, 12:50
Quote[/b] (arrrse @ Oct. 18 2003,22:35)]The fifth option is exactly what we're getting. I expect it was a primary feature right from the beginning of development.
Just to clear up any misunderstanding: what you can do is put any infantry troops (with the possible exception of siege artillery, which are things like catapults, ballista's and so on) on the walls, and if they are missile troops, you can direct them to fire at enemy troops which are in range. Any non-missile troops on top of walls will just remain there (they don't become missile-capable just because they're on a wall), and if any enemies make it to the top - say in a wall assault with a bunch of ladders - they'll defend the top of the wall. See the screenshots for how it works in action ;-)
Falling off was a required feature right from the word go - otherwise what would you do if a wall was collapsed by catapult fire and there were men on top defending it? In fact, what they do is go flying in all sorts of directions, and die messily on impact with the ground.
When you build archery towers and so on in the tech tree (as you can also do in Medieval), it places additional towers along the walls, which come with their own archers, ballista crews and so on. These troops are stuck in the towers - you can't move them around or use them to defend wall sections.
muffinman14
10-20-2003, 01:53
ah cool....not only can we have archers on wall but now have static archer walls http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
nice way of puting it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Quote[/b] (JeromeGrasdyke @ Oct. 19 2003,06:50)]
Quote[/b] (arrrse @ Oct. 18 2003,22:35)]The fifth option is exactly what we're getting. I expect it was a primary feature right from the beginning of development.
Just to clear up any misunderstanding: what you can do is put any infantry troops (with the possible exception of siege artillery, which are things like catapults, ballista's and so on) on the walls, and if they are missile troops, you can direct them to fire at enemy troops which are in range. Any non-missile troops on top of walls will just remain there (they don't become missile-capable just because they're on a wall), and if any enemies make it to the top - say in a wall assault with a bunch of ladders - they'll defend the top of the wall. See the screenshots for how it works in action ;-)
Falling off was a required feature right from the word go - otherwise what would you do if a wall was collapsed by catapult fire and there were men on top defending it? In fact, what they do is go flying in all sorts of directions, and die messily on impact with the ground.
When you build archery towers and so on in the tech tree (as you can also do in Medieval), it places additional towers along the walls, which come with their own archers, ballista crews and so on. These troops are stuck in the towers - you can't move them around or use them to defend wall sections.
GAH
Interesting. But, Vanya asks... can youz MOVE men to the wall top DURING battle? And, can you move them off the wall during battle, for say, plugging a rush through the gate or to chase the enemy from the field so they can relish in the lamentation of their womenz?
Can youz put CAVALRY on wall tops? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
Or can you only position them there during battle setup and never move them?
Vanya sez... fear not the wrath of god at the apex of battle and focus instead on the array of flaming pigs the enemy has waiting for you along the tops of the steep stone walls.
Vanya sez... Youz might charge a castle only to find a line of elephants, legendary armored Chihuahuas and flaming pigs on the ramparts waiting for your hapless peasants to scale the walls... scale them all the way to heaven
GAH
The Wizard
10-21-2003, 15:49
Horses on a wall? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif You.. you... YOU PERSON WHO IS CRUEL TO HORSEYS Give them naphta instead. =)
YARRGH
Quote[/b] (JeromeGrasdyke @ Oct. 19 2003,06:50)]
Quote[/b] (arrrse @ Oct. 18 2003,22:35)]The fifth option is exactly what we're getting. I expect it was a primary feature right from the beginning of development.
Just to clear up any misunderstanding: what you can do is put any infantry troops (with the possible exception of siege artillery, which are things like catapults, ballista's and so on) on the walls, and if they are missile troops, you can direct them to fire at enemy troops which are in range. Any non-missile troops on top of walls will just remain there (they don't become missile-capable just because they're on a wall), and if any enemies make it to the top - say in a wall assault with a bunch of ladders - they'll defend the top of the wall. See the screenshots for how it works in action ;-)
Falling off was a required feature right from the word go - otherwise what would you do if a wall was collapsed by catapult fire and there were men on top defending it? In fact, what they do is go flying in all sorts of directions, and die messily on impact with the ground.
When you build archery towers and so on in the tech tree (as you can also do in Medieval), it places additional towers along the walls, which come with their own archers, ballista crews and so on. These troops are stuck in the towers - you can't move them around or use them to defend wall sections.
Great stuff CA. Thanks again Intrepid Sidekick
JeromeGrasdyke
10-22-2003, 08:40
Quote[/b] (Vanya @ Oct. 21 2003,14:48)]Interesting. But, Vanya asks... can youz MOVE men to the wall top DURING battle? And, can you move them off the wall during battle, for say, plugging a rush through the gate or to chase the enemy from the field so they can relish in the lamentation of their womenz? Can youz put CAVALRY on wall tops?
The answers are:
Yes, you can order men to the top of a wall (and back down again) while the battle is going on. And no, you cannot put cavalry on top of a wall. Or animal handler units, either. We're undecided about pikemen as yet, but probably not, because a pike unit could not fight sensibly on top of a wall.
And armoured chihuahua's are definitely out http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
Snowhobbit
10-22-2003, 11:14
Will the men starve to death as quickly as in medieval/VI?
RisingSun
10-22-2003, 23:57
Will units atop the attacked wall be able to try to knock down ladders being thrown up? Naturally they couldnt do this to all ladders, because the ladder has to be placed improperly to be able to be thrown down.
Look again at the programmers message it claerly states that you can knock over ladders whoever said where have all the people with brain gone might be onto something http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Sir Kuma of The Org
10-25-2003, 01:25
Quote[/b] (JeromeGrasdyke @ Oct. 22 2003,02:40)]Yes, you can order men to the top of a wall (and back down again) while the battle is going on. And no, you cannot put cavalry on top of a wall. Or animal handler units, either. We're undecided about pikemen as yet, but probably not, because a pike unit could not fight sensibly on top of a wall.
And armoured chihuahua's are definitely out http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
Thanks for the info, it's appreciated.
but do give the armoured chihuahua's a chance, i mean game play does come before historical accuracy, right?
(This way someone that i won't mention will not run around here complaining and cutting peoples heads gah!http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
The Wizard
10-25-2003, 21:57
Hm... armoured chihuahua's out eh? Well, don't scrap the Obelix's with Idefix's That would be terrible http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif
Quote[/b] ]Then this pointless thread can fade into oblivion... Well, stupid as it started, this has turned into a very interesting thread since we have devs providing good details about gameplay http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Quote[/b] ]we are getting option 5 and always were going to http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/redface.gif my mistake, I misread.
I read "I want to be able to put my infantry on the walls as well as archers" since I didn't expect to see the option that was actually written... my bad.
Quote[/b] ]it places additional towers along the walls, which come with their own archers, ballista crews and so onOhhh proper manned towers http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif so you can kill the men as an attacker right?
Will there be a 'built in' garrison with a number of archers/infantry provided as garrison by the town? Otherwise garrisons are gonna have to be allowed to be huge to have enough men to defend enough proportion of those really long walls...
Quote[/b] ]Look again at the programmers message it claerly states that you can knock over laddersActually I don't see where it says that. Mind you, my reading ain't so hot lately... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif
Veryt happy with the restrictions on unit types allowed on walls http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Pikes, cavalry, animals & large seige engines have no historical place on defensive walls. (other than eg horses on the Great wall of China, but then this ain't C:TW is it?)
Though, I'd like to see some of the small seige engines (like the mini ballistae in the videos) on walls
The Wizard
10-26-2003, 15:54
Quote[/b] (Snowhobbit @ Oct. 22 2003,05:14)]Will the men starve to death as quickly as in medieval/VI?
Not if they're defending a city, there's a lot of food in a city you know... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
And a lot of people Wulf http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif
The Wizard
10-27-2003, 19:33
Only if they become desperate after stealing the last bit of food from the civilians... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
neogerry
11-02-2003, 06:01
Quote[/b] (JeromeGrasdyke @ Oct. 19 2003,06:50)]In fact, what they do is go flying in all sorts of directions, and die messily on impact with the ground.
cool http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
Australianus
11-03-2003, 07:10
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif This is sounding better all the time.
One thing that would be an improvement would be the ability to stock up a fortress or equivalent level of fortification with food and ammo. If you had to buy the stocks it would add an edge to resource management.
Rosacrux
11-11-2003, 12:49
I want them legendary armoured chihuahuas back in http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif
...don't you even think of the chance not including Pokemons in this game... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
Voigtkampf
12-06-2003, 09:15
I simply can't believe how good this sounds... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
Finally, archers on the walls, troops climing over ladders, walls collapsing and soldiers falling of the wall/ladders... Damn, this sounds soooo good http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif
I've seen the screenshots from the game, but somehow it's hard to comprehend this is REALLY happening http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif
PS Wanna know the best thing? I believe this is gonna work... I believe it's gonna work big time... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I hope that the strength of walls reflects a greater sense of realism. It always seemed strange to me that in M:TV, spearmen (or any other unit), are able to tear down even a large stone wall in short order. I hope that in R:TW, the only units that can damage massive stone walls are siege equipment. I got the impression from several of the promo videos that rams will be available for knocking open gates.
JeromeGrasdyke
12-11-2003, 12:10
Quote[/b] (Shamus @ Dec. 10 2003,19:51)]I hope that in R:TW, the only units that can damage massive stone walls are siege equipment. I got the impression from several of the promo videos that rams will be available for knocking open gates.
Yep, you're quite right. Gates can still be attacked directly by infantry, but walls can't. Rams are quite a lot more efficient than infantry at attacking gates, so if you attack gates with only soldiers expect it to take a while, during which time any archers in position will be raining arrow fire down on them. And if they have burning oil as a gate defense it will become very costly indeed to try to force the gates with only melee troops.
The Wizard
12-11-2003, 15:34
Another question:
Will there be different types of rams? As in: log of a tree cut down yesterday, (possibly) capped and now used to knock down the gate (Viking style http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif), protected ram (with a roof to protect from arrows), and 'heavy' rams, with metal plates on the roof to protect from boiling oil as well as arrows? Would be nice.
The most primitive of rams (the logged tree used to bash down the front door of the annoying neighbour and his barbecue smoke) would be something easily created without a building... catch my drift? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Quote[/b] (JeromeGrasdyke @ Dec. 11 2003,05:10)]
Quote[/b] (Shamus @ Dec. 10 2003,19:51)]I hope that in R:TW, the only units that can damage massive stone walls are siege equipment. I got the impression from several of the promo videos that rams will be available for knocking open gates.
Yep, you're quite right. Gates can still be attacked directly by infantry, but walls can't. Rams are quite a lot more efficient than infantry at attacking gates, so if you attack gates with only soldiers expect it to take a while, during which time any archers in position will be raining arrow fire down on them. And if they have burning oil as a gate defense it will become very costly indeed to try to force the gates with only melee troops.
Beautiful. Now the need to protect your siege equipment will take on a whole new meaning. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif How easy will it be to destroy siege equipment with soldiers?
The Wizard
12-11-2003, 23:14
Well obviously it will be harder for infantry to destroy a siege tower or covered battering ram than a catapult. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
RisingSun
01-13-2004, 18:07
Finally, there is a point to forcing the gate. Before, since there were no guys on the walls, you could just sit there an wait until every wall was knocked down and waltz through. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-builder.gif
Or, if there was barely a garrison, you could do this: http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif
Rob The Bastard
01-14-2004, 00:35
Can the archers be in range of enemy but be ordered to not fire upon that enemy??
Omar Mena
01-15-2004, 05:30
What I want incorporated is proper # of men defending a castle. I hated in MTW when a citadel being garrisoned by 2 peasants would hold out for 8 years http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif
Please CA, do something to fix this
I would like to see a militia / garrison system. Every city and fort has its own militia or garrison, depending on its size, which will fight in city / castle sieges, but will not leave the province.
Quote[/b] ]It always seemed strange to me that in M:TV, spearmen (or any other unit), are able to tear down even a large stone wall in short order.
I have no recollection of this being true at all.
I have very strong recollection of using any unit to knock down wooden walls and similarly being incapable of attacking stone at all http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-huh2.gif
Omar Mena
01-17-2004, 18:16
Quote[/b] (arrrse @ Jan. 15 2004,22:20)]I have no recollection of this being true at all.
I have very strong recollection of using any unit to knock down wooden walls and similarly being incapable of attacking stone at all http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-huh2.gif
I second that motion http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif
I would love to be able to put my archers on the wall
Quote[/b] (Omar Mena @ Jan. 17 2004,12:16)]
Quote[/b] (arrrse @ Jan. 15 2004,22:20)]I have no recollection of this being true at all.
I have very strong recollection of using any unit to knock down wooden walls and similarly being incapable of attacking stone at all http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-huh2.gif
I second that motion http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif
Before VI, before M:TW was patched, you could order spearmen to attack and take down stone walls, but that has since been changed so there is no need to worry.
Well given that chiv sergeants reigned supreme in unpatched M:TW, I have never played it unpatched since the first patch came out.
DthB4Dishonor
01-28-2004, 17:48
Hello all, I was thinking that archers defending a city should have atleast double the ammo of archers on the march. This makes sense since they can just stockpile arrows or bolts etc...at certain points and just have a runner get more. Anyway the whole idea of seiging in RTW sounds great, all we need now are some ents and we can have the battle of helms deep and palennor field.
RisingSun
01-30-2004, 03:03
Yes, the LOTR mod will take on a whole new meaning. Minas Tirith, anyone? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif
DthB4Dishonor
01-30-2004, 18:55
Yeah, the LOTR mod would be awesome. Perhaps even a LOTR campaign scenario which would include a few battles. anyway I cant wait to see my archers on a wall using there great height advantage. Or watching them fall off the wall as they get shot or flying down as the wall is destroyed by enemy artilery and seige engines.
Lord Xelous
02-05-2004, 01:18
As well as walls, how about garrisoning men in a building?
Things like AOE2 do this already, blockade your men in a building. Makes for the ability to make fortified towns, or hard points on a battle field.
I know this might seem a bit way out for many of you, but it's been done since 1985 in games...
Its been suggested in one or other article that there will be this possibility :)
LordKhaine
02-06-2004, 08:48
I'm just wondering if damaged walls/towers will magically repair themselves at the end of a failed fortification assault. Always annoyed me how I could tear down a few walls and towers one year, storm the castle but be repelled. Try again next year... and all the walls and towers are repaired http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
I doubt any fort that's surrounded could repair entire walls with ease.
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