View Full Version : The WORST thing about Sieges
Ok so I'm trying to take over Constantinople. I kill all but maybe 10 people and of course the Citadel won't fall without a direct assault. So I leave the province, lose it, they bring in more troops, and I attack again. This time, I just march my men behind the routing army, kind of herding them off the map, but not capturing them, so the larger garrison will make it fall quicker. Here's where I get mad. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif The garrison sallies out the year they were supposed to fall, I of course crush them thinking that it would end that time no matter what, but no, they retreat back to the castle after our battle and I've got to wait another 8 years now. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif
I could see how this could go on forever. I'd kill everyone on the field, but invariably theres gonna be some archer or naptha thrower that will escape my army. The castle should fall anyways imo. I'm not about to assault a Citadel with nothing but catapults. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
Hey, Ael use your best emissary and bribe the remaining garrison http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
If you can capture Constantinople you can most likely afford to take the castle. Remember the AI often places troops too far out and they get killed easily.
Besides it is rather fun for once to lose some troops, or just have to work for a victory.
Go for it.
The Witch-King
10-16-2003, 00:15
Just build some cheap arrowfodder and let them siege out the Citadel. Or let them attack it (be sure to bring LOTS of fodder in that case http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif ).
Yeah I was thinking about using my Jihad troops to assault the castle, I suppose it would work. (they're almost all desert archers and murabitin infantry) And I could use an emissary, but that would be downright logical Cheetah. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif Once I get some time to play again I'll have to give it a try.
motorhead
10-16-2003, 03:20
If you have any good (3+ valor) spies they should have a decent shot after the siege has gone on for 4 or 5 years.
Oh quit complaining about the historical accuracy. Constanople was a near impossible city to take. Me getting very tired of historical accuracy complaints then when a historically accurate event occurs making the game very hard theres complaints.
OOOOOHHHHH OOOOOOHHHHH I want historical accuracy please please
Hey that makes the game hard please take out the historical accuracy
Geez just gotta love all the hipocrits on the board http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Bah, it wasn't a complaint about historical accuracy. Hell, I don't know a whole lot about history, besides things like: this armour is better than this one.....or this castle is bigger and therefore harder to get into than this one....historical shimorical. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif What made me mad was the way it happened. Otherwise, I'd just abandon the province, and launch about 4 Jihads and take it....its not hard. It just annoyed me that twice, when the province should have fallen, the year I would take over the Byzantines pull this. I can wait them out, I can kill their last king and bribe the rebels, I can hire Merc. artillery, I could assault the castle if I wanted to. The map is mine to own, but what they did was kind of a cheap tactic, thats all. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif
brent_james
10-16-2003, 17:38
Quote[/b] (oaty @ Oct. 15 2003,21:27)]Oh quit complaining about the historical accuracy. Constanople was a near impossible city to take. Me getting very tired of historical accuracy complaints then when a historically accurate event occurs making the game very hard theres complaints.
OOOOOHHHHH OOOOOOHHHHH I want historical accuracy please please
Hey that makes the game hard please take out the historical accuracy
Geez just gotta love all the hipocrits on the board http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Yeah, of course 10 men was always enough to control a whole city from invaders.
lancer63
10-16-2003, 18:42
Castle stormins are a great way to get rid of crappy and/or low loyalty troops. Just have two stacks of troops, not necesarily full or equal. Put your best general with high loyalty with your disloyal/fodder boys. Use them to start the storming and leave a second stack of good/loyal men as reinforcements.
At the start of the battle place your general out of arrow/stone range and send the rest of the cattle to the slaughterhouse. If the building is all wood I surroond it and send them to destroy each wall section.
If there's stone walls I still form my men around the castle to get an even shower of arrows. Don't use arty. Send your most disloyat general to the gates and have him try to break it. You wont get the unit destroyed for it will break and rout before that happens. But there's a fair chance the ungrateful bastard general will buy it before that happens. As units get wasted in the process of breaking the gates, you may replace them as you please. but use one at a time to have maximum efect. After the bad apples are gone youy can activate your artillery (if you had it standing by) break the walls and gates and have your good guys have a blood bath in revenge for all their dead comrades. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif Devious isn't it? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif
brent_james
10-16-2003, 19:28
Quote[/b] (lancer63 @ Oct. 16 2003,12:42)]Send your most disloyat general to the gates and have him try to break it. You wont get the unit destroyed for it will break and rout before that happens. But there's a fair chance the ungrateful bastard general will buy it before that happens.
Hehe I know that its a common practice, but as I read that, I just had to picture in my mind, a disloyal general being ordered to attack on his own.
Reminds me of getting rid of one of my bastard generals by attacking a huge army (I had 80 men, the enemy had atleast 500). Of course he died, and got me some casualties http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
The Wizard
10-16-2003, 21:44
I send my more decrepid sons to do such jobs... yes, Machiavelli would certainly approve http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
ToranagaSama
10-17-2003, 06:02
Quote[/b] (Aelwyn @ Oct. 15 2003,19:03)]Ok so I'm trying to take over Constantinople. I kill all but maybe 10 people and of course the Citadel won't fall without a direct assault. So I leave the province, lose it, they bring in more troops, and I attack again. This time, I just march my men behind the routing army, kind of herding them off the map, but not capturing them, so the larger garrison will make it fall quicker. Here's where I get mad. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif The garrison sallies out the year they were supposed to fall, I of course crush them thinking that it would end that time no matter what, but no, they retreat back to the castle after our battle and I've got to wait another 8 years now. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif
I could see how this could go on forever. I'd kill everyone on the field, but invariably theres gonna be some archer or naptha thrower that will escape my army. The castle should fall anyways imo. I'm not about to assault a Citadel with nothing but catapults. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
That's just part of the challenge dude http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Kill everybody and that solves it, like you said, but you gotta plan for it.
You may need to change the composition of your army. If you don't have Calvary, then take some. If you so, here are a few maybes:
Make sure you have some light, fast Cav. Keep them fresh and don't use them for anything else except chasing down fleeing enemy.
Take some fast foot troops, Peasants and/or Archers, whose express purpose is to run down fleeing enemy.
Make sure during the course of the battle to place some troops in a position to "cut off" avenues of retreat.
I guess the best way to do this, is during the battle, take some troops and put the wayyy out on the flank and move them forward, so when the enemy starts to break you can bring in left/right and cut them off.
Be creative
Another course, after the "battle" turn bring in a stack of Peasants or other cheap troops and have them break the siege. Who cares how many Peasants die http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
BTW, what your complaining about isn't a "cheap" tactic, its quite sensical. Your besieged, food, water getting low, no help in site; so you decide to try and make a break for it; the break-out fails, you're still alive--what do you do--head back to the Castle---your only hope Since there are fewer of you now, the little water and food left lasts a short while, and then you repeat and try a break-out again. Eventually, you'll either get killed or the water and food will completely run out.
If you're letting them get back to the Castle its on the Player not the game
Good Luck
The Storyteller
10-17-2003, 11:05
This is ridiculous. After a besieged castle loses some of its men, it should last SEVERAL TIMES longer, not just one or two years longer. This is because the men in the castle now have fresh meat to eat (guess where from)
ToranagaSama
10-17-2003, 22:57
I personally don't have an issue with Sieges, because I cut them off at the pass. I just object to labelling people who do have issue as 'ridiculous players'.
Sound familiar? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
The Wizard
10-18-2003, 00:19
Actually I usually tear apart have the castle from afar with the heaviest of cannonry, and then I move in for the kill. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif
The Storyteller
10-18-2003, 12:50
Quote[/b] (ToranagaSama @ Oct. 17 2003,16:57)]I personally don't have an issue with Sieges, because I cut them off at the pass. I just object to labelling people who do have issue as 'ridiculous players'.
Sound familiar? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
He he he he he http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
HopAlongBunny
10-18-2003, 19:10
Actually killing everyone is quite difficult. Sure, sometimes I get'em all But...sometime you get a unit that just will not be caught. Pav crossbow hightailing it to map edge chased by a horde of of units. "Oh, but your guys were tired..." Hogwash Some escapes border on divine intervention I'm mad as H** and I'm not going to take it anymore
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
exactly, thats what I'm saying. Someone is usually gonna escape. Its not that I don't have fast cavs attempting to kill or capture them, its just that they won't go down. What I ended up doing was...hmm I forgot. I think I just threw a bunch of peasants, urban militia, and archers in the province and starved them out. But I was ready for when they came out again, with about 8 or so Saharan Cavs. No one escaped. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
My personal favorite: Right now theres 1 Horse Archer holding down a Citadel in Bulgaria. And me with no artillery. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif I'd assault the castle, but the Horde are coming in about 5 years, I have to build up my armies.
Well, he is a horse archer so he can ride along castle walls and keep all enemies outside range of his deadly bow.
It's merely logical.
And I thought poor/disloyal generals were ones that were given command of that half dead mercenary group doing border patrol in furthest hellhole of your empire...
ToranagaSama
10-27-2003, 20:36
Quote[/b] (Aelwyn @ Oct. 21 2003,12:22)]My personal favorite: Right now theres 1 Horse Archer holding down a Citadel in Bulgaria. And me with no artillery. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif I'd assault the castle, but the Horde are coming in about 5 years, I have to build up my armies.
This is what PEASANTS are made for
Cheap, trainable ANYWHERE. Depending on the number of provinces you hold, in one turn you can have 5 or 6 units, and the next take the Citadel. Doesn't matter if you lose most of them in the assualt....
Quote[/b] (ToranagaSama @ Oct. 27 2003,13:36)]This is what PEASANTS are made for
Cheap, trainable ANYWHERE. Depending on the number of provinces you hold, in one turn you can have 5 or 6 units, and the next take the Citadel. Doesn't matter if you lose most of them in the assualt....
I know I know....its the principle. I've been using Slav Warriors all over to assault castles.
And how is it that some people escape from the province while others are caught in the castle? I just noticed this today, as I took out the Polish, but in two battles the King and his only heir escaped being trapped in the castle and somehow found themselves in the last province they hold. I'm sure you're all going to say something flaming my point of view, but that doesn't matter to me, if I wouldn't escape with any units, they shouldn't be able to either. I dunno though, haven't lost, so I don't know if it happens or not.
ToranagaSama
10-27-2003, 23:08
I don't recall, but I think the phenomenom above is explained in the manual, but don't hold me to it.
BTW, where or what is M.S.U.?
EDIT: BTW, the things that are driving you crazy, used to drive me crazy toooo Sometimes stll do.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
Doug-Thompson
10-27-2003, 23:22
Consider mercenaries.
Assualting with more than 10 times the number of troops as the garrison seems to do nothing but drive up your casualites. At least that's my impression.
So, I can either attack with loads of poor troops, or I can hire mercenaries all over the empire and send them in by sea. Or some combination of the two.
Good, armored infantry mercs are affordable as a one-time cost. They'll wipe out the garrison and suffer high casualties themselves, which is fine. You're going to disband them anyway.
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