typical size of the Golden Horde

[mystic brew]

I've been playing the Russians.

High period, expert.

Spent all my time consolidating my lands. had 4 river protection armies, with arblastiers, spears and halberds, and one steppe army - most of my Boyars.

Save at about 1227.

Play on - the horde are just 3 stacks - one entirely of siege weapons.

I've exited and reloaded 3 times, and the horde has not been bigger than 3 stacks. different troops, but they haven't had the force to attack a single province other than Khazar.

really annoying, that.

Should I try until i get a big one, or is it the re-emergences I have to worry about?

[NewJeffCT]

Really? I seem to get a ton of stacks when I fight them - you can see my post below "Highs & Lows of fighting the Golden Horde" from a week or two back... I faced off against 15,000+ of them Mongols against almost 5,000 of my Turks in Khazar. And, I was not playing with large unit sizes or anything

[mystic brew]

I read that thread. That was pretty awesome. And the sort of thing I was expecting.


I wasn't expecting to be able to beat the horde straight up, but the troops I had would have given a nasty bloody nose to them before they left. But as it was the horde had one stack of MHC and mixed others.

I guess I'll keep trying to reload until I get a biggy.

It keeps on happening recently - gearing up for big battles then the enemy bugs out or refuses to fight.

I'd got together 1800 men to take granada from the 2500 strong Almohads - after some manouvering where I bounce him off a ridge and I wipe out some light cav and then they leave. Playing the Italians crusading to Antioch, 850 vets v 1800 Turks. no dice.

All i want is a big fight. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[lancer63]

Quote[/b] (mystic brew @ Oct. 16 2003,17:20)]All i want is a big fight. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
Do you own Khazar at the time of the GH invasion? Because no matter how many men I have, the mongols always appear there with at least three times that number.

[mystic brew]

nah. I pushed the rebels back to Khazar, but didn't take it myself - every rebels army from Lithunia down is in Khazar. thought I'd herd them there to pay the price when the Horde appeared. But at the moment it's like using a sledgehammer to crush an earthworm.

[lancer63]

Khazar and Volga-Bulgaria are prime targets for the mongols. If you want a big fight, have your troops, as many as you can, there before 1230 and your wish will come true. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[mystic brew]

yessir

I'll do that.

[Kraxis]

Mystic, your 'problem' sound like how the Horde was in 1.0... People complained back then that it was far too weak. So it got buffed in 1.1. Further in 1.0 it was also a problem with siege equipment in both rebellions and the Horde. Do you have VI or 1.1??? If not get either and the 'problem' is solved.

[The_Emperor]

Also the size of the initial horde invasion depends upon the difficulty level of the game.

Expert Difficulty is a truly rewarding Horde Experience http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[motorhead]

agree with kraxis, if you're getting the stack(s) 'o siege engines for GH, rebellions, or re-emergences, that's smells like 1.0. Get 1.1 or VI and it goes away.

[Sigurd]

I am playing Byzantine right now, and knowing the Horde would attack apox. around 1230, I beefed up Khazar with a big garrison.
Surly enough, in 1231 the Horde landed with 21 000+ units in Khazar with myself having a 30 000+ army waiting... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Are the game able to handle these amounts of troops??...
I have not been able to finish that battle.
Having to send out tired troops every so often brings sometimes onto the battlefield uncontrollable units, they just sit there by the flag and when you click on them the information says: these units seem to be dead.
Well I move my other defending troops away from them and they are soon cut to peaces... until the Horde somewhat half into the battle (according to the timer) suddenly do not attack anymore and just sits there by their reinforcement flag waiting for what.. Their Chan I killed during the first volleys of arrows in horse archer skirmishes??
I am thinking; This is the moment, and I unleash my Varangians who on a killing spree surrounds their flag and chops down all the units the horde musters... then suddenly... I am back unto my desktop... wondering If I won or...

It must be said that I have never had problems with the game prior to this (the whole 11 months I have been playing MTW).

[Urban Legend]

I'm playing Russian High 2.1 hard and the Mongols appeared in the 3 province to the right, there are enough of them that I have to give ground and defend almost every turn. The bridge battle in Kiev was just too much fun.

[Quokka]

I had a similar thing happen to me in my first game and thought they were having a Pyjama Party. They have been larger since but if you want truly Horde like proportions get the MedMod and you won't be sorry. Actually you will unless you like fighting 7000+ Horse Archers in several provinces each turn taking over 4 hours for each battle.

[Snowhobbit]

I believe that the size of the horde is based on a lot of things, mainly the size of your army, as it is designed to give the player a "though" time...

[monkian]

I'm playing as the Byz on early- normal difficulty and a 12,000 strong horde army appeared http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

Do they continue to make troops after they've invaded ?

Constantinople has continually been blockaded by Horde ships

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

And now the Spanish are after me and the Frogs are launching crusades.

[de la Valette]

Quote[/b] (monkian @ Oct. 17 2003,05:01)]I'm playing as the Byz on early- normal difficulty and a 12,000 strong horde army appeared http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

Do they continue to make troops after they've invaded ?

Constantinople has continually been blockaded by Horde ships

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

And now the Spanish are after me and the Frogs are launching crusades.
Yep they do. I have seen the horde with slav warriors

Every campaign i play i make sure i take Kiev before the Horde arrive just for the fun of a bridge battle against them http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif.

[The Wizard]

I've never taken on the full bulk of the Horde that comes into Khazar... however I have taken on the GH when it enters in Armenia or something like that because that province is disloyal.. That's annoying because they start a rampage across your lands... that is before you can send a big bad army at them.. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[TLRoff]

I realy enjoy playing turk and forcing the Byzantibes to expand northward. I seen the hoard reappear with an army of but 3 full stacks, But usually it's this massive 9-12 stacks in 2 to 3 territories. As Turks "its Byzantium must fall", and the sooner you get constantinople the sooner you can stop crsusades (especially the weak early ones) dead in thier tracks and prepare for the real menace to your existance, and thats the hoard in ones back yard. I have no idea what determines the size of the hoard invasion but I've never seen a small one. I do notice the hoard is slow to expand. Give me that army and I 'll show you quickie empire building

Terrance Roff

[monkian]

I enjoy crushing the Turks as the Byzantines http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Now the hoard have most of the upper map and Europe whilst I have most of the moddle and bottom map.

Hopefuly the Horder will start attacking the Spnaish soon so i can leave them to fight it out whislt I build up my defences and troops to clean up the survivors http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[ChErNoByl]

I played as ENGLISH. I took over like 70% of europe (still missing russia and the horde-arrival points. I had to keep like 6 full stacks back in western europe and spain to fight off constant rebellions as i didnt have enough troops to satisfy the people. My advancing armies had insane amounts of valor, and they can easily take on an army 3 times their size and slaughter them all. When the horde arrived, they had about 12 full stacks, and i had about ... 2...

[hellenes]

In the PBM thread ive posted my gh experience and way of dealing with it enjoy:http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=25;t=10690;st=125

the comments yours... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[TheSilverKnight]

Quote[/b] ]Volga-Bulgaria

Why is it called Volga-Bulgaria??? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[hellenes]

Because IIrc the bulgarians are from that place and the name boulgars comes from the greek volgaroi the once from the river volga in estern russia...so the migrating volgars when came in the balkans named the place that they occupied boulgaria...

[The Wizard]

monkian.... Horde with ships? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif

I haven't even seen that at expert with the HRE... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/redface.gif

[Skidrowpunk]

I love defending the bridge in Kiev from the mighte Horde. I always seems to get 20000+ (approximately) of those good for nothing mongols. It's kind of strange though that the Horde is very slow at expanding their new empire, at least for me. And VG's slaughter Mongol Heavy Cavalry http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif.

[hoom]

Quote[/b] ]Horde ships http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

[The Wizard]

I like blowing up horseys with naphta http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Quokka]

Yes I have seen the Horde build ships. In a Succesion game I played on another site Early,Italians,Hard the Horde invaded with around 12,000 troops and got to Constantinople quickly. Not only do they make Silver Armour MHC http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif, but they have ships in the Black Sea, Sea of Marmara, Aegean and Mirtoon. They own Khazar, Kiev, Volga-Bulgaria, Pereyeslavl, Chernigov, Georgia, Armenia, Trebizond and Constantinople. This is in 1275 so they have survived the early years and look like they are a thriving empire. They are slowly expanding into the Egyptian lands to the south.

[The Wizard]

I find it such a pity that, usually, in my campaigns the GH AI sucks ass... so I can kick their asses way too easily. Last time the Horde were a serious threat was many moons ago... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif Oh, and I play my campaigns on expert nowadays. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

For instance, they never make any worthwhile new troops, they never make ships, they don't expand fast... unlike the old days where they slaughtered everything on their path.. until they reached me of course. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Bevan of Hertfordshire]

Golden horde always sucked, they had massive armies, i used to think "Oh god its the mongols" and hide my family in the understair cupboard.

But then you go back to your own empire and they dissapear.

I wanted to invite them into tea

[The Wizard]

Tea in what... skulls? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Ok har har har... heh. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

[jadast]

I to am dissapointed in the fighting capability of the horde. I wait them out by letting them send wave after wave into my territory. I never invade their lands as my style would get me crushed.

I have found they come at me with big numbers but can not handle slow foot soldiers. I fight them with armies of 7 chivalric sergents, 4 archers, 3 arbalests with 2 units of mounted sergeants to run down routers. I shoot up their horse archers with my archers and use the arbs on the heavy cav. Once they commit the heavy cav I unhinge the civs on the wings and trap the heavy cav while keeping the horse archers at bay with my mounted sergeants. I have so far not been flanked or beaten with this tactic.

Eventually I will kill the horde leader then send in my emmisaries to bribe stacks of horde troops.

[Bevan of Hertfordshire]

No, the wooden cups that cost me five shillings at the market on Friday after i visited the tavern

[The Wizard]

Be sure to poison it dear. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[LordChance]

I've posted elsewhere of my unforgivable experiance when 25-29000 mongols assaulted a fortress in khazar...

but of course sometimes they splitt in to a lot more provinces...but on expert there always seem to be at least 15k+ in my experiance...

[Nowake]

Played always on expert and never encountered more than 13000-14000. 29000 seems fantasy.

[The Wizard]

It seems that, in Khazar, the larger your garrisson is, the larger the Horde is upon entrance...

[Belisarius]

Last night the horde attacked khazar with some 23.000 troops for me. After a three hour long battle, and having killed around 5.000 of them, I got tired and quit.

[Sigurd]

Ok I tried my Byz. game again (autosaved), this time reducing my troops inside Khazar to around 25 000, the Horde still having 21 000+ troops. Same sh*t happened. After about halftime (on the battle clock) reinforcement troops becomes unplayable and the game finally crashes when I at some point try to group new troops. What the BUG is going on… anyone had similar problems?

[The Wizard]

I guess the game can't handle your extraordinary persistance Sigurd http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[NewJeffCT]

I've had that happen with the Horde as well. They come into Khazar with a huge army and then just sit there for a decade doing nothing, even though the fairly weak People of Novgorad should be easy pickings to their north and they can easily push West into Crimea and Kiev as well.

[Orda Khan]

All the interest in the Mongols, yet not playable unless you Mod the game......shame

.....Orda

[The Wizard]

True... Mongols own. Must.. get... MI... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif

[ChErNoByl]

What a disappointment. I got about 15 thousand troops (i have unit size on max, so its not that much) as byzantines in high era. The horde came with virtually NOTHING. about 5 stacks, not even full. I sent my one full stack in and chased them away. They went into russia, and i killed the khan while sallying out a russian castle (which held about 1000 men who joined me too).

I wanted 10+ full stacks of mongols. But it never happens gah

[lancer63]

Quote[/b] (Sigurd Fafnesbane @ Oct. 19 2003,06:45)]Ok I tried my Byz. game again (autosaved), this time reducing my troops inside Khazar to around 25 000, the Horde still having 21 000+ troops. Same sh*t happened. After about halftime (on the battle clock) reinforcement troops becomes unplayable and the game finally crashes when I at some point try to group new troops. What the BUG is going on… anyone had similar problems?
Couple of months ago. some 5K+ of my Bizantine boys against 12K+ GH. Battle raged on for about 6 hours then it crashed. You can guess I was more than a little disappointed. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
Not even saving the battle at the start can you make up for 1/4th of a day (and several cans of soda http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif )gone because of a little glitch. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif

[ShaiHulud]

I'm surprised to hear that so many of you have huge armies, yourselves 5K armies, or larger, in one province? My playing style must be stunted. (hehehe ) I thought 1500 was a huge force.

Perhaps we differ because I usually build my units only in provinces where they receive valor bonuses or where the armorers are superior. My armies, while smallish, are relatively high in quality. My strategic defense is a 'Crust' defense, with very little reserve in the interior. That's pretty much the result of building in only a few provinces. When I expand, I first have to create a new army to cover the province my attacking army vacates. Anyway, the concept of a 5K, or larger, army.... quite a surprise~ http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Re: The Mongol Horde.... I've seen a few smaller hordes,
but, the norm is 15K, or so.

[The Wizard]

I agree with Shai... I conquer the world with decisively less troops... but you should take a look at a screenshot Drucius posted of his Turkish armies in Khazar of the " who wants to be a Sultan?" thread in the Throne Room... I think you'll be scared http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif

[hellenes]

Quote[/b] (Wizzy @ Oct. 21 2003,09:44)]I agree with Shai... I conquer the world with decisively less troops... but you should take a look at a screenshot Drucius posted of his Turkish armies in Khazar of the " who wants to be a Sultan?" thread in the Throne Room... I think you'll be scared http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif
Ahm Drucius? I think you can read my name on the left
HELLENES I hope that was a typo and youll remedie it... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[The Wizard]

Well.. sorry *edges slowly away from Hellenes' Hoplite pike* http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

[hellenes]

Non prob man its ok we all make mistakes http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif ...
*pretends lowering the pike while handshaking with wizzy and suddenly stabs him in the back* http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

Quote[/b] (Orda Khan @ Oct. 20 2003,12:30)]All the interest in the Mongols, yet not playable unless you Mod the game......shame

.....Orda
Hum not quite true Orda.

You don't need to mod the game to play the hord; use -ian and then shuffle around the faction using shift + 6 to select the Hord... And voila They become playable without mod

Louis,

[The Wizard]

Use what then shift what and what? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

Quote[/b] (Wizzy @ Oct. 21 2003,15:45)]Use what then shift what and what? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif
OK, to play the Hord wo mod, you need to follow a two steps process;

1/ -ian; it's a command available in both VI and 2.01 for SP. If you have a shortcut for VI 2.01 on your desktop, copy it, right click / properties / target add -ian at the end of Medieval TW.exe. Start MTW/VI using your new shortcut. -ian is a debug / demo mode. It will allow you to switch between faction and to have 'real' unlimited camera (feature not available in 2.01 for MP http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ).

2/ start a new campaign with whatever setting. With -ian enable you can change faction... to get the Hord, use Shift + 6

Example (and shameless advertising http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ); Golden Hord: Mayehm and destruction over Europe (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=25;t=11306)

Louis,

[mystic brew]

what's the code for the Novgorodians?

[Sigurd]

Just to show you guys that I am not fibbing.
This is the initial invasion of Khazar...
The Khan thought rampaging Europe would be as easy as stealing candy from children... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I sent an emissary to him with a message: the very day he sits his foot on European soil, that very same day he would surely die.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-10/449090/mongolinvasion.jpg

I of course made sure this was not an empty threat and assigned my best general to the province together with the best part of my army.
Too bad the game can not handle such amounts in one battle.
This is why I started this game, to battle it out with the Khan, to see if he could handle overwhelming forces. I guess he was not so tough after all...

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/story/mongolinvasion3.jpg

I had to auto resolve the battle http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif
But hey, the result would still be the same, the Golden Horde with its feared Khan, is and will always be in my history books, a big LOOSER http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[The Wizard]

I read in another thread that you fought the entire battle until it crashed... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

I'm too lazy to do that :P

[Brutal DLX]

Usually I'm far away from Chazar when the Horde shows up, but if I'm playing Byzantines, Polish or Russian, I'll never mass my forces there, too much upkeep if you don't do a worldwide trading network. Besides, it's much more fun to let them advance so that more factions get their share of destruction and you can show up as the big saviour and defender of Christendom/Islam/Orthodox faith http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[The Wizard]

That was my original plan in my current Byz campaign, but the Khan thought otherwise, allied with Russia and tried futilly to conquer my Empire instead of taking advantage of the oh-so-easy pickings to the North and West... idiot.

[Funky Phantom]

What happens when you attack and defeat the Horde in all the provinces it enters on the first turn it does so? Do the remnants from the battle simply disappear from the map altogether?

[Sigurd]

Quote[/b] (Wizzy @ Oct. 23 2003,18:01)]I read in another thread that you fought the entire battle until it crashed... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

I'm too lazy to do that :P
I have tried to finish that battle 3 times before I just auto resolved it to see what happened... as I said (in this thread) the game can’t handle those amounts of reinforcements… it crashes after a while, usually around halfway into the battle...

BTW… what the h*ll happened to my other picture(totalwar.org??)... that was not what I loaded up yesterday.

[Brutal DLX]

Quote[/b] (Funky Phantom @ Oct. 23 2003,13:52)]What happens when you attack and defeat the Horde in all the provinces it enters on the first turn it does so? Do the remnants from the battle simply disappear from the map altogether?
Yes.. this is handled in about the same way as a rebel uprising, if you defeat all troops and they possess no own province they can retreat to, then this faction is eliminated. Although I can't say whether or not an re-emergence is possible as I don't know if this is tied to a faction having to have appeared or also needing to have fully owned at least one province.
I remember a campaign where the Horde arrived in Chazar, and in the turn after, their Khan would decide to attack my holdings in Lithuania with just one stack of troops. During the ensuing battle he was killed and as he had no heirs the whole Horde went rebel and idly sat in Chazar, which was really a good thing to happen to me at that time.