Best Province?

[hoom]

Back in Shogun, Shinano (at least, I think it was Shinano?) with its iron, cavalry bonus, large income, very defensible battle map & key strategic positioning made it THE province to own.

Is there a similar one in MTW?

I don't think there is one so dramatically clear as Shinano but I thought this might get some nice discussion going & I may find out some little secret I hadn't noticed yet.

I've only just recently discovered the importance of Antioch since currently I have it pumping out about 4000 florins with only a Merchant http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
I'll be crusading to there early in future http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I guess Constantinople could be a candidate for 'best' since it has such a key position, great early development & good income.

Switzerland is pretty handy for its Swiss units but it's a bit of a pain location wise. Certainly not strategically important in terms of location or income.

On the water, the Gibraltar straits & the sea around Sicily seem the most important locations strategically, though the Baltic, Black & Adriatic seas are great for having many provinces to trade with.

Any further suggestions?

[dessa14]

i would say constantinople first because it is a nice choke point very rich and always well developed egypt is good tripoli for trade venice too. sicily is the hub of trade and naval power in the mederterrainian (sry for the mispell)
strangely i like hungary though it has iron deposits it's fairly rich and you can move the troops to the north in two turns and south in two turns
thanks dessa

[Doom Train]

Tripoli and Flanders i think

[The Wizard]

I would say either Constantinople or Venice... Constantinople for its key location and extreme wealth (provided you can trade with everyone and that you're not at war with everyone :P), and Venice simply because it can pump out the dough http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

In my Byz campaign I now control Constantinople (duh), Venice, Antioch, Tripoli and Egypt... I'm making at least 20k a year... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Eastside Character]

Sicily and Naples http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[Doug-Thompson]

Antioch's not a bad choice, frankly Neither is Egypt.

I'm going to broaden the definition a little beyond just one province. I'd say that if you control Constantinople, Georgia and any one of the provinces from Cyrencia to Cordoba, you can control the very rich trade from Egypt to Constantinople and some pretty decent farmland.

It's a sweet spot. Say the Byz, for instance, control the regions within those three provinces and have ships from the Black Sea through the Eqyptian coast, and then in the Adriatic.

They can get trade from Antioch, Tripoli and Egypt up to the Balkan and Italian ports on the Adriatic, and to the Black Sea Coast.

[Shahed]

I would'mt mind if my only province was Antioch, for the good life. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Bogdanovist]

Sicily I used to like playing the Italians and always took Sicily early. With the Sicilians now playable I've moved onto them. With just this province pumping out the ships, you can support many fine armies to conquer the world

[GranCactus]

Sweden, no contest. It's got three trade goods and iron and copper. It doesn't have any valor bonuses, and it's position is good but not great, but the iron and the money make up for it.

[Aelwyn]

There are many good provinces. Of course Constantinople, Venice, Antioch, Tripoli, Palestine I think. Rum is also pretty good for money. Egypt, even Cordoba can give you a big income. Flanders as well, Sweden, and I like a lot of the provinces in the western Saharan. I think theres gold there...money to be made. But the best I think is Constantinople for its income, access to mainland Europe, choke-point ability, etc.

[bighairyman]

tropili, it will have 4 trade gods after the return of marco polo. which means it's the only counite to have more than3 trade goods

[Ironside]

Citera[/b] (bighairyman @ Okt. 19 2003,22:11)]tropili, it will have 4 trade gods after the return of marco polo. which means it's the only counite to have more than3 trade goods

Kazar gets four or five trade gods (I think it's four) after some event late game. And kazar is a good chokepoint province to.
Sweden is the richest province with iron and quite easy defended.

[Snowhobbit]

Id say sweden closely followed by Constantinople...

[Skidrowpunk]

Yeah, with your mod Sweden owns. But without it I'd say Constantinople because it starts with a lot of possibilities which will make it a great trading centre for the byzantine empire. Otherwise I think that both Tripoli and Antioch are really good for trading and such.

[hoom]

Alright http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Definitely some good points I was unaware of http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Venice I should have known, but most of the time I have only come into possession of it in the middle of the big push across Europe & never really paid attention to it...

I think I'll have to agree with GranCactus on Sweden.
Iron + mining + trade + easily secured from attack is a pretty strong set of pros.
The downs are no great military positioning value, no chokepoint & no valour bonuses.

I didn't know Tripoli gets more trade goods later.

Amendment to the earlier Antioch statement I made:
It was with a mere Trading Post that I was getting 4000+ out of that province
Now I'm getting over 8000 with a Merchant or Merchants' Guild (forget which).
Playing GA is fun, cos people tend to stay friends longer when you aren't running around conquoring stuff & you can trade with them all http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Cebei]

Ryazan and Arabia. Especially if you want an agricultural economy.

[Fragony]

Sweden is overall best, but I build up the economy rather late in the game, I use it for troop production first. As for pure economy I would have to give it to Flanders.

[The Wizard]

Sweden? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif Why that? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

How about... Denmark? Not the best but a very nice chokepoint and the only access through land to the so-called riches of Sweden... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[NewJeffCT]

I love Sweden because it's easily defended, has iron and copper, 3 trade goods and good farmland. Denmark is also easily defended and has 2 trade goods and pretty good farmland. Morocco is good because it has gold, good farmland and is a good choke point. Egypt is also easily defended if you hold the Sinai as well, and Egypt has 2 trade goods and very good farmland. Constantinople is very wealthy, is already built up and provides a nice choke point as well. The same with Khazar - good trade province, plus is a choke point with the limited map. Aragon & Navarre together are nice for the choke point effect as well. Sicily & Naples as well.

[brent_james]

Quote[/b] (Wizzy @ Oct. 20 2003,05:48)]Sweden? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif Why that? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

How about... Denmark? Not the best but a very nice chokepoint and the only access through land to the so-called riches of Sweden... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
Sweden is just as good of a chokepoint as denmark is http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[DojoRat]

I would choose Constantinople. It may lack iron but it's starting developement level is so much higher that it puts you way ahead of the competition.

Off topic. What does the iron represent? An abundance of raw material and the skill to make superior weapons? There were no such places in the middle east? What were those Damascene swords famous for, simply their looks?

[lancer63]

Quote[/b] (NewJeffCT @ Oct. 20 2003,11:12)]I love Sweden because it's easily defended, has iron and copper, 3 trade goods and good farmland. Denmark is also easily defended and has 2 trade goods and pretty good farmland...
Sweden is a very effective launch pad for the invasion ofthe blatic provs. and N. Europe. He who controls the scandinavian peninsula controls the north.
Better than Constantinople because it's not as greedely eyed by it's neighbors, yet it may become as important.
Sweden teaming up with Denmark and Norway, may become money fountains. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[Orda Khan]

Constantinople

......Orda

[NewJeffCT]

Quote[/b] (lancer63 @ Oct. 20 2003,12:31)]
Quote[/b] (NewJeffCT @ Oct. 20 2003,11:12)]I love Sweden because it's easily defended, has iron and copper, 3 trade goods and good farmland. Denmark is also easily defended and has 2 trade goods and pretty good farmland...
Sweden is a very effective launch pad for the invasion ofthe blatic provs. and N. Europe. He who controls the scandinavian peninsula controls the north.
Better than Constantinople because it's not as greedely eyed by it's neighbors, yet it may become as important.
Sweden teaming up with Denmark and Norway, may become money fountains. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
Heck, I try to snag Sweden as early as possible, even if I'm the Egyptians or Turks... and, those Vikings fall pretty easily to horse archers/turcomans. Getting Sweden & Norway early is nice, as you can quickly build a trading post & merchant and then concentrate on getting metalsmiths (and, I am now finding as the Danes that vikings with gold upgraded armor and gold upgraded weapons are still very effective warriors late in the High Era.

[Doug-Thompson]

Quote[/b] (NewJeffCT @ Oct. 20 2003,13:37)]
I am now finding as the Danes that vikings with gold upgraded armor and gold upgraded weapons are still very effective warriors late in the High Era.
Somebody once posted that Vikings from Norway with their valor bonus can get their armor upgraded in Sweden. This is a really cheap, highly efffective force.

He was right. Vikings also seem to produce a goodly number of decent high-acumen governors too. They make great garrison units, too.

[Kadagar_AV]

1. sweden, easily defended and great moneymaker....

2. (noone mentioned it yet) wessex... gives good money AND if you controll it you have the whole brittish continent...

3. conastantinople (sp?)...

4. kazaar... iron and trade

5. switzerland, for the ÜBERelite troops

[Nowake]

Constantinopole
Sicily
Sweden

My two cents http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[The Wizard]

SAP aren't uberlite... pin them down with, for instance, some good sword/anti-armor troops and flank them, and you'll see their effectiveness drop a few miles... also, horse archers are their ultimate nemesis, they'll kill them. So, Szekely >>>>> SAP http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Swiss Halberdiers are good, despite their lack of armor they do quite nice in a castle siege. In the open field they are more effective than Halberdiers, and probably also more effective than Billmen.

[econ21]

With VI, Sweden and Denmark give huscarles with a very low tech requirement (and a +1 value in Denmark) - I don't know who can have them; but unlike the Vikings in v1.0, it is not just the Danes. As England or HRE, I try to grab Sweden as it is easy to defend. Now I know about the Huscarles, I am tring to let it be.

Constantinople must be the best province in early, though, for the developed castle. Gives you better armoured basic units and advanced units such as knights that otherwise you have to wait for. I've never made a grab for it though, as it would be a little unsporting (the AI does not seem to recognise its value).

[mystic brew]

in early, it has to be Moldavia. easy to grab, and it produces knights some time before anyone else can have them. With half a dozen units of Avar nobles you can wreck any of the low tech armies the others can throw at you.

But in general I have to say Venice, Flanders, Sweden and Antioch are cash-cows, while if you control the Lithuania/Kiev axis in the east you are well set to control the game.

[The Wizard]

I must say... I have never played with Avar Nobles before. I'm teching to them now with my Hungarian campaign. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif

[Guthwyn]

I'd have to vote for Constantinople as the best province for a few reasons.

1. Easy to capture as any number of factions. Byzantine, Turks, Eqyptians, as well as some of the catholic factions such as Hungary, and even the Italians, because of their fleets, all have a good shot at aquiring Constantinople early.

2. Strategic location. While other provinces may make more money, I find Constantinople to be the most strategic of the "rich" provinces. Makes a nice chokepoint, and is a good launching pad into the black sea provinces as well as the rich provinces of the eastern Med.

3. Capture and assault rather than seige, and you can start with a Citadel in the province, or a fortress in the later time periods. I think I've seen the computer abandon Constantinople without a fight more often than any other province.

Guthwyn

[The Wizard]

If memory serves (knowing my memory, it probably won't http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif ), Constantinople was once my richest province when I wasn't at war with everyone... that would be the Early time and I had a vast but vulnerable trade network that stretched from the Black Sea to the North Sea... very profitable and gave me 7000+ in Constantinople alone http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Funky Phantom]

Id go for Sweden, not because its neccesarily quite the richest, even though i imagine it gives Constantinople, Flanders, Antioch etc a good run for their money, but because it has iron, very few (if any) factions care about it, it starts as rebel with a crap garrison and it is extremely easy to defend.

Plus it has a copper mine, decent farmland, and great trade potential, a true diamond of a province http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

The richest region is probably the Holy Land, although the Baltic also has superb potential what with places like Sweden, Lithuania, Livonia, Denmark, Pomerania and Novogorod all having 2 or more trade resources http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[The Wizard]

The problem is, that there is a difference between the worth of trade goods... for instance silk (only in Constantinople in the beginning, arrives in Tripoli in 1295 with Marco Polo) is one of the best-selling trade goods, the same goes for spices and other things that, for instance, the Portuguese, Arabs, and Spanish searched for in the Rennaissance and Imperial Age... they were worth a lot more than honey, bear skins and salted fish... agree?

[Funky Phantom]

Im not actually sure of that, it may well be true (and would make sense if it were) but i dont know :/

The availability of some goods may make them more profitable than others simply because less other places possess them, therefore more places will take them and the level of your merchant building both effect trading for sure, not sure about other things :P

[The_Emperor]

Constantinople all the way...

it has a great strategic position

Its a good money maker

It is also VERY well-developed with its citadel and high tech buildings... everywhere else is a Fort or a Keep at best in the Early period.

Often lightly defended and vulnerable to naval attack, a large army can quickly caputre Constantinople. Even if the eternal city cannot be held it can be very profitable to slash and burn all those high level structures and leave nothing standing for Byzantium (or whoever) to go back to

A great province

[solypsist]

Quote[/b] (GranCactus @ Oct. 19 2003,19:12)]Sweden, no contest. It's got three trade goods and iron and copper. It doesn't have any valor bonuses, and it's position is good but not great, but the iron and the money make up for it.
Yep. I always go for Sweden if I can.

[Lord_PH]

constantinople

-sweden, flanders, wessex, venice, antioch, castille (for some reason) are good as well

whenever i launch a crusade, constantinople is usually left unguarded. my crusade makes a short stopover there, and i ransack the city hehehehehe

[hoom]

OMG Now I understand why people were talking about Tripoli earlier in the thread http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

After Marco Polo it really leaps up in profitibility.

Aside from my current unfortunate hostility with the Eastern Roman Empire, I have been earning about 12000 florins from Tripoli Thats with a Master Merchant, 9 acumen general, very high tax, fleet in every useful sea, peace or alliance with everyone & a 1 acumen King
Meanwhile, Antioch is outputting 11000 odd.
Next is flanders with a piddly 7000 or so.


Quote[/b] ]MoldaviaNow thats an interesting little gem http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[The Wizard]

Avars With the HRE I always snatch it from the Hungarians/Polish/Byz with a Crusade if I can... Avar nobles are very good early cav http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[mystic brew]

I worked it out. You need 7 structures to build Avars, 11 to build Feudals.

Cost wise there's no comparison, but its the years that makes the difference. It's probaly being able to field Knights 25 years before anyone else can - if you grab it the first year, that is

[Funky Phantom]

I love the Hungarians, they allow you to combine the elements of Eastern and Western armies together perfectly, especially in the cavalry deparetment e.g. East - Szeleky, Avars, Steppe Heavies (Providing you take Moldavia and Kiev) and West - Feudal Knights, Chivalric Knights etc

On a sidenote, Szeleky are the best fast moving cavalry ever http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

With upgrades from armourers, churchy places, swordsmiths, a master horsey place and a good general and they become an insanely strong and yet superbly mobile force, the best HA's in the game hands down http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[The Wizard]

I like how in MedMod there is the realistic fact that you can quickly build Feudal Knights... as well as the fact that the French have them earlier then everyone http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[neogerry]

constantinople http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[andrewt]

Somebody posted about the value of trade goods a while back. Basically, before the Marco Polo event, Antioch has the most valuble goods hands down. The most valuble goods are rare and I think all 3 that Antioch has are rare and expensive. Constantinople is next. I forgot about the others. I seem to remember that there is a 2-good province that's actually better than a certain 3-good province. Antioch also lags Constantinople a little bit in the farm department.

For money, Antioch is the best (before Marco Polo). Overall, it's Constantinople. It has a higher tech than anything else in the beginning. It's second in income and it is a good chokepoint. Sweden has iron, but you rarely have the time to build both a large economy and take advantage of the metalsmith upgrades at the same time, especially since Sweden starts almost from scratch. The trade goods it has are not very good either. That said, it's still one of the best provinces there is. Khazar has a good economy too (thought not as much as an Antioch) and has some special cavalry troops.

[Funky Phantom]

You make a good point andrewt, although Sweden does have both iron and good economy you cant really take advantage of both effectively :/

I guess Constantinople is probably the best early in the game on that basis as it already has a developed infrastructure so you can build up its economy without sacrificing its abilities as a troop building province also http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Cebei]

My god Nobody reads these things. I dropped a bait telling ryazan and arabia are best agricultural provinces and nobody kicked me of it.

Anyway it was a test, dont take it seriously.

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] (Cebei @ Oct. 24 2003,20:46)]My god Nobody reads these things. I dropped a bait telling ryazan and arabia are best agricultural provinces and nobody kicked me of it.

Anyway it was a test, dont take it seriously.
Either that or we were all too polite to say anything http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Funky Phantom]

I noticed, but i figured 'each to their own' http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[MizuKokami]

the most important province for me is allways the one i want to conquer next. there are ones that i have to upgrade quick when i got em, but since there are so many prime lands to choose from, it's easy enough to build what's needed for each campaign you play.

[The Wizard]

My most important province is the one where my best troops come from... heh. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Cebei]

Hehehehe thanks Very polite forum. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

What's others' excuse?

Hehe kidding, anywayz.