View Full Version : Conquistador Total war
hey people any help with a new Central and south american mod i am creating will be welcome i really need some background infomation development will come when we have some idea of what we are making
thanks dessa
Marshal Murat
10-21-2003, 11:59
I guess I'll help somehow
Aztecs
Eagle Warrior
Jaguar Warrior
Weapons
shield that is covered in feathers, mace with sharpened volcanic rock, flint daggers and spears
Spanish
Conquistadors
Attack dogs
Crossbowmen
Weapons
Guns, dogs, armor, swords, crossbows
ShadesWolf
10-21-2003, 13:08
Just a thought m8,
Have a look at a couple of other games on the subject (A couple of my all-time favourites)
- Colonization
- Pirates
These will have a few good pointers for you and a nice map for you to copy. I would offer my help, but im busy with my 100 years war mod.
Beelzebub
10-21-2003, 15:04
No offence but that kind of time period would probably make for a crappy mod. You'll have what, a few hundred spaniards slaughtering thousands of indians? Pretty one sided if you want to make it realistic. What might be better is setting it a few hundred years before the spanish came and just have the indians fight each other. The Incas, Mayas, Aztecs, etc all had some pretty brutal wars with each other.
GoldenKnightX2
10-21-2003, 15:12
That sounds pretty good.
ShadesWolf
10-21-2003, 19:07
But depending on how big he was going to make the playing zone/ map you could add other european nations.
Portugal
France
England
Holland
etc...
I agree shade I mean you could have the aboriginies as barbarians in the game and you chose between eng france spain hek make a world map call it colonialization total war but Im prob getting carried away http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
Brother Derfel
10-21-2003, 20:32
This mod would be cool if you could make it what American Conquest (follow up to Cossacks) failed to be.........erm good.
I liked the concept of AC, but the platform it was made on sucked. If you could mod it for TW then it would rule.
well there are three things for me to say 1st is spanish will have their units as far more expensive and lower morale (after all they have to come from spain) 2nd is aztecs and maya will have better economic position than spanish and 3rd is shades did you play pirates on C64?
thanks dessa
ShadesWolf
10-22-2003, 06:27
C64 & Amiga m8
and thinking about it, also PC http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
i just played on my emulator this weekend, i used to own a C128 and pirates, street rod, the train and about a million others
thanks dessa
also only spanish because conquest is 1512. pirates england france and their m8s didn't arrive till 1560 the emphasis on ships would be too great in these eras we will make up for the spanish advantage of quality by making their units very very expensive like 6 times that of the natives and have low morale for being so far away from home
thanks dessa also ill try to make as little of the carribean as possible in the map so the left of the map will be north right south
thanks dessa
Eastside Character
10-22-2003, 08:20
Why do you want to make spanish units so expensive dessa14?
Wouldnt it be enough just to make those units about twice as expensive as indian units, but also two to four times smaller? So for example spanish infantry units would be sth like 60 men and aztec like 200 men.
well spanish units could be like that but the cost of spanish units will also make it fair on the battlefield if you lose 200 indians it doesn't matter too much you've got another 4000 indians in reserve if you lose 60 conquistadors it is really important because they cost a bucketload of cash and two years to get from spain. that is what im aiming for it to be like in the game with a massive bias against the spainish strategically and numerically while keeping it realistic.
thanks dessa
NagatsukaShumi
10-22-2003, 18:28
You should probably make the units a reasonable cost with low numbers but a high support cost as the supplies need to be brought from spain, just to make sure it's not too unfair.
Yeah, AC was pants. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
Anyway, I don't think the Spanish were actually that good, it's just that the locals a) thought they were gods and didn't attack even though they outnumbered them 100 to 1 or something and the Spanish were "urinating out of terror". And b) the locals kept trying to capture them for sacrifice instead of just chopping them up.
well if you think about it their supplies were easliy accesable locally but their troops had to come from spain this would make their troops cost alot of money and take 2 years to come by boat to the new world the spanish will emerge with one province and lots of backup money
thanks dessa
i like the idea of high support cot to me it makes more sense
well it's either price of buying them or support but they will take two years to get any unit (except maybe a slave unit) thanks dessa
So in one of your topics before you mention knowing c++ where did you start Im wonderin because Im interested in learnin it
well i started learning VB from my brother and i have know basic's 2 and 7 since commodore64 days so it was just one step to C based laungage but there are plenty of sites out there to learn it from just if your thinking of programming in C++ i would advise using linux and Emacs a script editing program for linux
thanks dessa
Ya thats cool I geusse it was pretty helpful having a bro like that so give me the details what aspects you gonna change in yet another ctw?
hey well im not gonna use C++ because it is far easier to make this mod using the current editing documents inside the program and to use things like lmm and gnome so to edit it in C would take a long time because of 4 things
1: the multitude of errors that can be created
2: very few TW modders would know and that would increase how long it took to make the mod
3:we would have to unencrypt the sourcecode and other things
4: we have everything we need to make the mod using current stuff
thanks dessa
also i will have aztec's emerge just south of the starting toltec faction. there will be four tech trees one for each respective religion. there will be Aztec/Toltec religion, a Mayan religion, Incan/Nazca religion and old fasioned spanish who will be a invading faction like the goldern hoarde and will land on the edge of the map with alot of galleons and plenty of troops (like 4000 not too many) this will happen 120 years after the start of the game (early age only) i have not decided whether to make it a addon expansion or a take over but im thinking it must be takeover because we will need a million texture files for jungles and mountains. NOTE:THIS WILL BE FOR VI due to the complexity and the fixing of bugs it will be in 2.01 thanks dessa
Eastside Character
10-23-2003, 09:47
So what are you doing now Dessa14, still working with ideas, or maybe some more concrete stuff?
i still need more background before we can create a tech tree for even one civ
thanks dessa
P.S more building and unit ideas about anything but the spanish
ive really been thinking about it maybe we could add the ballcourt for all the mesoamerican factions as a troop producer also i came up with an idea for individual farmlands such as lets say mayans get flood resoviors and this doubles their output letting them grow as much food all year and incas get contour farming increases their income by 400% because it allows them to use previous unusable land (only in lowlands for the first one and highlands for the second and only avaible to certain factions.
thanks dessa
Bevan of Hertfordshire
10-24-2003, 09:25
Quote[/b] (Beelzebub @ Oct. 21 2003,09:04)]No offence but that kind of time period would probably make for a crappy mod. You'll have what, a few hundred spaniards slaughtering thousands of indians? Pretty one sided if you want to make it realistic. What might be better is setting it a few hundred years before the spanish came and just have the indians fight each other. The Incas, Mayas, Aztecs, etc all had some pretty brutal wars with each other.
You could replace the golden horde with the spanish which would make things interesting
that was the idea make the goldern hoarde the spanish which will show up and take one province on the edge of the map and have about 4000 men and 6 or 7 galleons just an idea though
thanks dessa
Bevan of Hertfordshire
10-24-2003, 10:56
Quote[/b] (dessa14 @ Oct. 24 2003,04:07)]that was the idea make the goldern hoarde the spanish which will show up and take one province on the edge of the map and have about 4000 men and 6 or 7 galleons just an idea though
thanks dessa
Sorry http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Because of my zeal in getting the idea in first i neglected to read the rest of the topic
Eastside Character
10-24-2003, 23:41
Would you consider making this mod, but without the spanish or any other europeans Dessa14? Only the native american nations. Do we always have to have some european influences (even in STW there were those dutch and portugese sailors)?
And only think of an army of 4000 spanich conquistadors - the outcome of its arrival would be just the slaughter of the natives.
And giving the spanish soldiers low morale also makes no sense to me because, as the spanish find out of the incas/mayan/aztec gold and all that other treasures, they were I would say highly motivated to simply get those things.
And after being defeated at the first stage of conquista, and after hearing the screams of their fellow soldiers being sacrificed by the natives, the anger of the invaders motivated them even more. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif We all know the rest of the story - pre-columbian empires collapsed.
Placing the mod few centuries earlier would give the game a new feel - of something entirely unique.
the game starts like 250 years before spanish conquest the natives have plenty of time to build up troops also natives build alot more troops and their troops have very good morale compared to the spanish
thanks dessa
all these thing are also compansations to the lack of ability to simulate booby traps in the game as a large percentage of spaniards were killed or captured by traps
also the amount of natives will balance the game out what 30,000 to 4000 that's a ratio of 15 to 2 or 7.5 natives to one spanish soldier also the spanish would not have heard the screams of their fellow men they would not have been in the temple or near it when the sacrafice's were made
thanks dessa
Eastside Character
10-25-2003, 15:01
Quote[/b] ]also the spanish would not have heard the screams of their fellow men they would not have been in the temple or near it when the sacrafice's were made
Actually some of the spanish even saw their fellow men being sacrificed - those who escaped (rebellion in Tenochtitlan, 1520 AD). And to say more, Hernan Cortez himself was one of those who escaped (to the city of Tlascala).
Cortez had only 400 men with him when he arrived. It is also important that he managed to gather some 3-5 thousand of indian followers to support his campaign. And he controlled the capital city of Tenochtitlan (300 000 inhabitians) for almost two years, before it rebelled. And that tiny spanish army (which was just a small expedition from Cuba) captured and imprisoned the most powerful mayan king Montezuma(who never regained his throne). So my question is: where the hell were all those high-morale mayan warriors you keep talking about?
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
My point is: you make this mod historically accurate - playability sucks, and if you make it balanced but not historically accurate - it becomes nice, but untrue story about how did the brave indians defeated evil european invaders. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif
So have a nice modding. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
Marshal Murat
10-25-2003, 16:26
Quote[/b] ]captured and imprisoned the most powerful mayan king Montezuma
It was Aztecs that the Spanish conquered.
Also, with the Spaniards couldn't they be defeated by hitting behind?
The Blind King of Bohemia
10-25-2003, 17:33
The Mayans did have high morale and were very brave. They were first to adapt to the Spanish methods of warfare and used Guerilla warfare and not pitched battles like the Aztecs to deal with this powerful foe. They were overwhelmed not really by the power of the horse(becoming of no use in the harsh central american jungle) but more of the ruthless, ability and well trained Spanish infantry.
The Spanish didn't just capture Montezuma, it was through treachery pure and simple, as with the Inca Emperor, who after having no further use for him had him brutally executed.
well we can reduce the amount of spanish soldiers involved but that would kill them and because the way the game is constructed it is impossible for the spanish to win so badly over the americans even with 4000 thousand men they will be diciplined but they will flee when the 900 in one battle will fight something like 5000 remember the civilasations of middle america had been fighting for years before that. that was the reason for the destruction by spanish forces.
thanks dessa
help people please. hard work has not begun yet need more information on civilastion eyes sore from reading
thanks dessa
ShadesPanther
10-27-2003, 12:28
and the common cold helped them a bit. It wiped out most of the Incas but you can't really add that
Eastside Character
10-27-2003, 18:04
I have a question Dessa14 - can you specify the area this mod will take place at? I mean we are here talking about Incas and Aztecs and such, so does it mean that the campaign map will cover both central and south america?
And if you want help - you could be more specific about that.
yes it will cover both and will be like shoguns map up is east and down is west so the left and right sides will be north and south otherwise it is impossible to create the map with incas but if we can't fit the incas in they get the boot
thanks dessa
i found a site with information we can use for the mod for the mayans Mayan Society (http://www.crystalinks.com/mayansociety.html) thanks dessa ill post again if i find more
TheSilverKnight
10-28-2003, 03:28
Well, are you going to use the original Spanish from the game? (I would suppose you are). And, secondly, there should be many native factions, each contending to unify the Native Lands and chase out the Europeans.
of course not the spanish will be historicly accurate so no bloody javalin men etc there will be cav but it will be dragoons and the sword horsemen conquistadors (carry sword and gun) and Musketeers the models for musketeers will be aquabusier models from MTW but that is it all other models will be new
thanks dessa
Eastside Character
10-28-2003, 09:35
Quote[/b] ]the models for musketeers will be aquabusier models from MTW but that is it all other models will be new
thanks dessa
Are you going to make those new models yourself? Have you ever tried doing sth like that? I dont think you will need many new models for the natives (3 or 4 should do). But the spanish, hmm , they will need propably more models. The spanish had only 14 horses (Cortez expedition) as they arrived, so maybe there is no need for giving them more than one type of cavalry unit in their invading army. But they could be able to train some other cavs later, as they establish themselves in the america.
Well my idea was to have more then 3 or 4 models for the natives but maybe that is all that we can have but the spanish will need about 12 or so maybe more and no i have not changed the bifs before i would appreiciate help with it and you would go down in future documentation for the mod.
thanks dessa
REMEMBER anything is possible now we haven't started work on the mod yet due to problems with finding information also i want it compleated by next year.
thanks dessa
help with background information please
thanks dessa
Antalis::
11-12-2003, 08:10
Any news?
TheSilverKnight
11-12-2003, 15:10
I have some ideas. You could make the mod start in 1339, with all the Indian Tribes and stuff, and then make it end in 1661.
You could also add North America and enable such countries as the French, Portuguese, and the English.
antalis im still trying to find some units to use in the mod (still researching) silver knight i really want to have as few western factions as possible but still have the conquest north america will not be in the mod. if you could just give me some data on the tribes of central and north america.
thanks dessa
Update on progress
1: i need a campaign map i can't get LMM and the copy i have doesn't work propaly with 98
2: ive begun some of the tech-tree stuff see below some of the tech trees
3:i either will make the bifs or if anyone else wants to (you will be recorded and your name will be in the credits for the mod) you can
The Tech Tree
Mayan
Backbone (castles)
"Village Centre"
The most basic type of settlement may include a priests hut food is brought here from the surrounding farms to trade and be shipped to the bigger towns and cities. preresquite for "flood Irragation"
"Town Centre"
A more advanced type of settlement includes a priests hut and a trading market can be upgraded to have a small temple
Preresquite for "Flood Reservior"
"Town Square"
A Town Centre built around a large stone paved square this square creates a giant marketplace and a meeting place for the people of the town and the surrounding areas
Preresquite for a Ballcourt
"City Centre"
A city centre is the centre of a city large trading area where food and goods are traded amongst merchants and people
Preresquite for a "Temple Complex"
"City Centre Complex"
This is many squares of paved stone and many markets linked together by large plaza's this increases the cities trading area and reputation as a large city and increases it's income
Preresquite for A "Regional Temple Complex"
Farm Upgrades
"Flood Irragation"
in the seasonal Rainforest of the yucatun, rain controls growth of maize crops this construction digs canals from flooded rivers improving your crop yield by 50%
"Flood Reservior"
The Construction Of these Clay water reservior allows water from the wet season to be stored and used all year this improves yearly crop yield by 100% by allowing farmers to grow two crops a year instead of one.
Mayans need to clear rainforest to gain any real income before building these
Temples & Ballcourts
"Small Temple"
this is the smallest temple in the chain and the least important in the heirachy of priests in mayan civilastion usally respecting small gods and dieties and usally found in the smallest towns. needed for Fanatical Warriors
"Ballcourt"
this is a famous piece of mayan and mesoamerican history where people would come and play a game with a big rubber ball the rules and game changed from region to region but they all played one varient of the game. if you lost the game then you would be sacrificed needed for all warriors other then Fanatical Warriors
"Temple Complex"
A Small Temple Complex that has many temples and a few pyramids they are usally found in the centre of smaller cities. needed for Warriors of the ???
"Regional Temple Complex"
The Largest Temple Complex of them all and controls all the others. these are massive temples and pyramids that are the home to the highest of the priest heirachy it is needed for Warriors of the Jaguar
More To Come
thanks dessa
more buildings
Industrial & Commercial
"Clayworks?"
this is where mayan Artisans work with clay creating bricks and pots these are used in trading and many other things.
allows construction of advanced buildings
"Copperworks"
This is where copper is melted down after it has been shipped in from the north this is needed for (some sort of mayan axeman) and other advanced practical things
Needs Jetty
"Stoneworks"
this is where all the real work of mayan artisans is done all the stone structures built have their stone cut and carved by the artisans in these places this building is needed to build anything above a Town Centre and is needed for all temples
"WoodWorks (forester? miller?)"
this is where wood is processed and turned into products from logs of trees. these timber products include bows and timber planks and lengths used for many practical tasks.
needed for Whittler and all buildings other than village centre.
"jetty"
allows boats to be built and goods to be traded with distant provinces if coupled with a town centre generates trade income needed for a copperworks
thats all for now more to come
thanks dessa
more buildings
Military
"Whittler (AKA Bowyer)
the whittler uses a stone knife to create bows and such the building requires a woodworks and a stoneworks this is needed for Mayan Bow Miltia
"Spearturner?"
this building creates spears from lengths of timber supplied by the woodworks and then attaches stone heads to the spears or javalines [The Building Requires Stoneworks and Woodworks]{creates Mayan Javaline Miltia}
"Bladesmith?"
while not actually making blades for swords this building sharpens the axeheads made by the copperworks allowing you to build axemen [The Building Requires Copperworks]
{creates Mayan axemen}{With Stoneworks creates Obsidian blades}
more to come
thanks dessa
Eastside Character
11-17-2003, 20:50
I know that aztec and mayan warriors often used blades made of obsydian (sp?), so I think maybe it wouldnt be a bad idea to make a building connected with it.
Your tech tree seems interesting. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
yes, there will be blades of obsidian but they might be provincial units and will need a stoneworks and a temple complex to build but they will be one of the best units in the game.
thanks dessa
Mayan Bow Militia
these soldiers are basically villagers given hunting bows and told to fight. they have poor morale and are inaccurate undisciplined and untrained with bows. their arrows can fly randomly and oftenly fall short of their target and when they do hit their mark they oftenly fail to pierce the skin of an enemy. arrows are oftenly made by the troops themselves and thus are poorly built and unstable and sometimes cause failure to fly. only available to CHITCHZEN MAYA
Mayan Javelin Militia
These soldiers are better then the bow militia. they are normally hunters or fishers that are equiped with javelins made by a turner these are of reasonable quality and these troops have a native skill for this when backed up with slingers this combinination of troops will cause any conquistador to die no matter how thick his brest plate.
Mayan Slingers
These are exactly what they say they are men in jungle camoflage with slings and rocks they are hidden all jungle terrain and are far harder to see than all other miltia troops their stones easily pierce armour and cause massive damage to an enemy that is caught off guard by these men. they are the embodiment of guerilla warfare when used right they can rout an army without losing a man. very weak defence very strong attack pierce armour very fast
Hey Dessa the map just has south america right? If so for your next mod (Idunno if its possible) it would be cool to have a mod like your doin right now but with the world map
just another crazy idea from me
north western South america and central america.STOP
thanks dessa
also i was toying with the idea of a world mod but the sheer impossiblility annoys me
thanks dessa
ya too bad maybe thats gonna be the next TW...
Hasdrubal Barca of Iberia
11-25-2003, 19:56
got some test flags done tell me what you think:
1 (http://www.funtigo.com/go/i1822657?i=i1822657_91172.jpg)
2 (http://www.funtigo.com/go/i1822672?i=i1822672_5113.jpg)
3 (http://www.funtigo.com/go/i1822673?i=i1822673_67553.jpg)
4 (http://www.funtigo.com/go/i1822675?i=i1822675_4455.jpg)
Hasdrubal Barca of Iberia
11-25-2003, 20:01
sorry here they are:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-11/507091/aztecsflag2.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-11/507091/aztecsflag1.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-11/507091/aztecsflag04.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-11/507091/aztecsflag3.jpg
Hasdrubal Barca of Iberia
11-25-2003, 21:01
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-11/507091/aztecflags5.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-11/507091/aztecsflags6.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-11/507091/aztcecsflags7.jpg
great, absolutely marvellous. brilliant Work HBOI maybe you can send the images for the flags to me and ill tinker with them to be a bit and see if i can make them look better in the game.
thanks dessa
Hasdrubal Barca of Iberia
11-26-2003, 04:41
ok will do, they looked alot better in game its just the
resolution i was using makes it look bad
if you think you have something to contribute to our mod just post your email here and join our team (to everyone) i would like this to be a team effort. one person can create a great mod but only teams will create the best mods.
thanks dessa
NagatsukaShumi
11-26-2003, 20:12
Screengrabs are usually lowered in quality also, and with a low resolution on MTW it isn't as spectacular as they could be, I'm sure in game on a higher resolution they look brilliant.
Warriors of the Jaguar
these warriors are like what their name suggests they are warriors with big spears and can hide anywhere in their natural terrain when the enemy tries to invade you let them through since in pitched combat mayan units are useless due to lack of armour. these units are far in excess of elite and are able to snap any other elite unit if used to attack from the flanks or behind, all though one volley can wipe out an entire group. these mayan troops will not flee and rather die to defeat their enemy when used in conjunction with slingers and javelin militia spanish soldiers are doomed.
Fanatics of The Jaguar
these are not like the ones above if used quick enough they will succeed in a front on battle against spanish soldiers their big five foot swords made of obsidian are a terrorfieing site. the blades slice necks like hot knives through butter these are the most damaging troops in the game due to their unwavering support in a battle they are the most fearless pios warriors the priest king can get to fight for him. if thrown into any battle these troops will end the battle due to the unlikleyness of any soldier or armour standing against this sword.
that is all for now
thanks dessa
Eastside Character
11-29-2003, 12:52
I found some intersting info you guys may find useful:
Warriors wore feathered headdresses, and many carried bright pennants. In battle, soldiers carried shields made from thick animal hide. The warriors fought with wooden clubs, flint knives, spears, and slingshots. Warriors were also known to use hornet bombs, in which a hornet's nest was thrown into a group of enemy soldiers. All fighting stopped each evening, and there was a truce that lasted till morning. If any armies commander was wounded or killed, his army retreated and the battle ended.
So what do you think about those hornet nest throwers? Might be a really nice unit, and first of all totally original. I think they could act as a kind of a native naphta throwers.
Also I think you could use some more native indian names for units.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
Eastside Character
11-29-2003, 13:02
About aztec warfare:
For the aztec it could also mean death upon the stone of sacrifice. But the slain warriors of the sun became humming birds and lived in the house of the sun forever. about 1450 they developed a ceremonial military campaign called Xochivaovotl ("Flower War"), the sole purpose of which was to obtain captives for sacrificial victims to ensure the continued existence of the sun, giver of all life.
I think that this Xochivaovotl could be added for aztec factions as an equivalent of MTW crusade. How do you like this idea, have you ever thought about it?
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
great idea about the crusade thing but how would it work. the capturing of enemy soldiers increases morale? is it possible? just a few questions and also the info on warriors is very helpful it might help us model the warriors so they have shields that are canvas with elaborate painting on it.
thanks dessa
TheSilverKnight
11-30-2003, 04:46
Some Spanish Units
Conquistadors:
Mounted cavalry units armed with guns. Good for launching raids into enemy territories. Bonus of +2 loyalty when trained in New Spain.
Tericos:
The Royal Guard of Spain. They are armoured arquebusiers which have a high attack and excellent morale. They come in 45 man units and are unique, for they are like foot knights and arquebusiers.
Aragonese Knights:
Mounted Knights in the Feudal Tradition. A great tradition in the house of Aragon (Ferdinand of Aragon), they continue the feudal tradition of Medieval Spain. They are armed with kite shields and lances, and are heavily armoured. They have excellent charge capabilities.
Eastside Character
12-05-2003, 15:00
No disrespect to what you are here doing guys, but for me it seems that there is no order in all this, no cohesion.
I went through this thread from the beggining and I there is nothing about factions which will appear in this mod. So why have you made tech trees if there are no factions specified. I mean we all know that there will be aztecs, mayans, incas and the spanish, but is that all?? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
So if there is no specified faction list, why to make flags? BTW those flags look nice, but what factions will use them? There is nothing about it in this thread - I think you are missing some very important and basic aspects, and maybe this is why you dont receive a lot of feedback from other modders.
I think you should make it all more clear, because for now this mod doesnt look like its going to be one of the best ever created (as Dessa14 claims in his signature).
I know that Dessa14 sees himself as one among the best modders (or at least some of his comments suggest that), but unfortunatelly he havent prove it yet. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
Dont get me wrong guys, I dont want just to critise and leave you with that. I think I could help you with few things, but that later, now I have to go. I hope this post will make you think for a while about what you call Conquistador Total War, and I call Conquistador Total Mess. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif Nah, that was a joke. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Lord Of Storms
12-05-2003, 15:11
Quote[/b] (Eastside Character @ Dec. 05 2003,08:00)]No disrespect to what you are here doing guys, but for me it seems that there is no order in all this, no cohesion.
I went through this thread from the beggining and I there is nothing about factions which will appear in this mod. So why have you made tech trees if there are no factions specified. I mean we all know that there will be aztecs, mayans, incas and the spanish, but is that all?? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
So if there is no specified faction list, why to make flags? BTW those flags look nice, but what factions will use them? There is nothing about it in this thread - I think you are missing some very important and basic aspects, and maybe this is why you dont receive a lot of feedback from other modders.
I think you should make it all more clear, because for now this mod doesnt look like its going to be one of the best ever created (as Dessa14 claims in his signature).
I know that Dessa14 sees himself as one among the best modders (or at least some of his comments suggest that), but unfortunatelly he havent prove it yet. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
Dont get me wrong guys, I dont want just to critise and leave you with that. I think I could help you with few things, but that later, now I have to go. I hope this post will make you think for a while about what you call Conquistador Total War, and I call Conquistador Total Mess. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif Nah, that was a joke. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
I can understand your point EC, But Dessa is new to our community, and is in a sense feeling his way around, he is eager to help others, but on the same token is still learning himself,so patience, and things will come together, maybe you can offer Dessa the advice you feel is lacking...LOS
Hasdrubal Barca of Iberia
12-05-2003, 19:34
lol well if you will read above post it specifies test flags
just some cool stuff i found that might make a good aztec
flag and aztec only because they are all aztec related.
*moons mr. negetivity*
Eastside Character
12-05-2003, 22:19
Quote[/b] ]lol well if you will read above post it specifies test flags
just some cool stuff i found that might make a good aztec
flag and aztec only because they are all aztec related.
Ok so the flags you've made are just test flags, but that was not my point. My point was that it would be good to start from the most bacis issues (when, where, who) and only then proceed to details.
Quote[/b] ]*moons mr. negetivity*
looks like ignorance/arrogance to me
Quote[/b] ]I can understand your point EC, But Dessa is new to our community, and is in a sense feeling his way around, he is eager to help others, but on the same token is still learning himself,so patience, and things will come together, maybe you can offer Dessa the advice you feel is lacking...LOS
I agree with you LOS. My previous post in this thread wasnt to offend anybody, but rather to make them realise not everything is as great as they think it is. Developing such a mod is a long process, and has to undergo some concrete plan in order to succeed. Any constructive criticism can only serve this mod well.
What I suggest this mod lacks the most at present stage is finalised list of factions.
ummn im very sorry about not posting the factions earlier but this might satisfy in order of north to south
HUASTEC
AZTEC
TOLTEC
MIXTEC (unplayable and small)
Chitzen Maya
Mayapan
Inca
????
????
the names for the mayans are not sure yet but Chitzen Maya refers to the mayans of Chitzen Itza while mayapan refers to the southern Rainforest maya
Inca are the only sure south american faction at this moment. i believe nazca are too early to include.
thanks dessa
Addition: i know how you feel but a lot of our construction has been done over messenger (silverknight and I) silverknight is in charge of the spanish tech tree and im in charge of the native tech tree. we are both responsible for construction of the mod but his construction is focused around spain while mine is focused around the natives. there will be two playable eras Early Postclassic (without spanish and aztec dominance) and Conquest which will include the spanish at the start as well as the aztec dominance.
HBOI is a newcomer and thus i haven't been able to get in contact with him about what he wants to do.
thanks dessa
i would like to say that we want to have the northern factions done first because they will be the most important in my opinion, because they will be the most difficalt. mayans and aztec style factions will take the brunt of the spanish forces (kinda like russia does in MTW against the mongols) the Toltecs and Aztecs Compete for the same land and the huastecs are built along the east coast, the mayans are split in two and are also fighting the remanants of the former great toltec empire, incas on the other hand battle with one faction and some weak rebels (remember incas are the most south faction and thus are further away from the spanish.
incas will be the last faction compleated and may be relesed on a patch after the other factions
thanks dessa
TheSilverKnight
12-06-2003, 02:39
Quote[/b] (dessa14 @ Dec. 05 2003,18:26)]ummn im very sorry about not posting the factions earlier but this might satisfy in order of north to south
HUASTEC
AZTEC
TOLTEC
MIXTEC (unplayable and small)
Chitzen Maya
Mayapan
Inca
????
????
the names for the mayans are not sure yet but Chitzen Maya refers to the mayans of Chitzen Itza while mayapan refers to the southern Rainforest maya
Inca are the only sure south american faction at this moment. i believe nazca are too early to include.
thanks dessa
Addition: i know how you feel but a lot of our construction has been done over messenger (silverknight and I) silverknight is in charge of the spanish tech tree and im in charge of the native tech tree. we are both responsible for construction of the mod but his construction is focused around spain while mine is focused around the natives. there will be two playable eras Early Postclassic (without spanish and aztec dominance) and Conquest which will include the spanish at the start as well as the aztec dominance.
HBOI is a newcomer and thus i haven't been able to get in contact with him about what he wants to do.
thanks dessa
I would like to add to the Civilisations, with adding "The Kingdom of Spain". http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
sorry SK completly forgot about spain
thanks dessa
Eastside Character
12-06-2003, 10:21
Quote[/b] ]there will be two playable eras Early Postclassic (without spanish and aztec dominance) and Conquest which will include the spanish at the start as well as the aztec dominance.
Good idea, and the only way to solve the problem with the spanish invasion.
Quote[/b] ]Inca are the only sure south american faction at this moment. i believe nazca are too early to include.
If you need any other south american factions:
the Sican - They inhabited the territory along the northern coast of modern day Peru. Their civilization existed from the 8th c.AD until the 16th c. (the Incas conquered them). Some quotes: The significance of the culture is that it existed in Peru before the Hispanic invasion of 1532 and before the Inca civilization of the 16th century. "This pre-Hispanic culture was one of the first cultures to successfully employ any degree of metal production like bronze," Shimada said. The Northern Coast area is refered to by anthropologists as the Sican area. "These were a people who were in tough with nature. They were technologically advanced and they had a complex social and economical structure," Shimada said. The Sican describes an area of land that was once a 300-mile Peruvian empire, and the natives who lived there.
the Chancas - Quote: The Chancas were one of the nine cultures living in the region within the period between 900 and 1400 A.D., known as the fourth period. The history described here has been passed down from mouth to mouth for generations and it starts at the end of the fourth period when the Inca were starting to dominate large parts of South America. There had been many wars between the Chancas and the Incas but the Inca were finally getting the upperhand. In the Western Calendar it was the middle 14th century to the early part of the 15th century and the Spanish had yet to arrive in the region.
Before the Incas expanded their empire in the 16th c., Chancas were quite strong and they even threatened the incas capital Cuzco, a quote: The 9th Inca, Pachacutec, began the empire's great expansion. Until his time, the Incas had dominated only a small area close to Cuzco, frequently skirmishing with, but not conquering, various other highland tribes. One such tribe, the expansionist Chancas. occupied a region about lS0 hen east of Cuzco and, by 1438 was on the verge of conquering Cuzco. Viracocha Inca and his eldest son, Urcon, believed that their small empire was lost but Viracocha Inca's third son refused to give up the fight. With the help of some of the older generals he rallied the Inca army and, in a desperate final battle, managed to rout the Chancas.
the Huanca - Another faction in conflict with Incas, some quotes: Huancayo was the cradle of the Huanca nation, the home of a people known for their pride, warrior spirit, and a history of cruelty toward their enemies.
///
During the Incan expansion of King Pachacutec, the Huanca were brought under control, albeit with great resistance, and their territory became an important center of operations. The Huanca took revenge later, however, and sided with the Spanish during the conquest.
the Chimu Empire - Empire founded in about 1200, controlling about 1,000 kilometers (600 miles) of Peru's northern coastline by the 15th century. Its capital was at Chan Chan in the Moche valley. The Chimu were conquered by the Incas in 1470. And a quote about them and their magnificent capital: [Built by the Chimu Empire approximately 1200 AD, the citadel of Chan Chan consisted of nine major sub-cities. Each built by a previous leader and at their height, housed more than 50,000 inhabitants. With a span of more than 45 square miles it was the largest pre-Columbian city in the Americas and the largest mud city in the world. It took more than 100 million adobe bricks and thousands of man hours to build this archaeological wonder. The temples and pyramids were adorned with plates of gold and from the palace gardens, plants and animals were made of precious metals. Even the citadel walls were beautifully painted with murals and relief decoration of animals, fish and gods of their cultural beliefs. Though the Chimu were expert in the craftsmanship of precious metals, they are also remembered for their rituals of the battlefield. It is said they would capture their enemies and place the head on a staft to show it as trophy for their victory at war as well as for all others to judge them by their strength. In the middle 1400's the Inca Indians arrived into the region bringing with them a change of leadership.
So these are some of the south american factions which I think could be included in this mod. If you need any more, well there are many more you could use. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
So what do you think about it?
thanks alot EC. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
ill find a way to add as many as those factions as possible.
ill put you in as like a hero for one of those factions.
thanks dessa
Eastside Character
12-06-2003, 13:19
As you can see my criticism is not the only thing I have to offer. Besides I would very much like this mod to be as good as it can be (as it's going to be the first one to take place in america, and also deals with cultures completely different from those represented in other mods). As for that hero thing http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif , well i would rather be an emperor or at least a king. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
I understand that you would rather make this mod alone, but sometimes it is worth to ask the others what they think (as this mod is going to be for all our community, is it not). I think that particularly the Org members from latin america could help a lot. I remember that lancer63 is from Salvador, but there have to be aslo other folks from that region (i would be very suprised if there weren't any others).
nonono you have got me all wrong i want as many people to join in as possible the more people the better the potential for the mod if i wanted to do it by myself SK and HBOI would not be in it. i started it by myself but im hoping to have a large list of credits for the mod.
thanks dessa
if you want to join don't hesitate send me a PM or better still add me to your MSN messenger account and ill get in contact with you about the mod.
thanks dessa
Hasdrubal Barca of Iberia
12-07-2003, 18:47
made some more test flags please tell me what you think if
they are accurate etc...
mayan:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-11/507091/00000045.jpg
spanish:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-11/507091/00000050.jpg
spaish flag with a shield i made:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-11/507091/00000058.jpg]
oh ad dessa i will send you the images for the flags
hey thanks HBOI really lovin the flags.
thanks dessa
Eastside Character
12-30-2003, 15:50
South American Factions
As for now there are going to be 6 factions:
the Incas
the Chancas
the Huancas
the Collas
Sican
Chimu
Each of these factions will be different, but not all units and buliding will be faction specific.
There will be no cavalry units http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif ,because they really didn't have them... (was thinking of Lama Riders for a moment but nah http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif )
Here's a finished list of Incas units:
Many Inca units are going to be trainable only in provinces with some specific resource.
Sapa Inca Bodyguards
They are royal guard of the incas, wear armours made of gold, use bronze axes in battle, move slow, restricted only to the province of Cucso, very high building requirement and very high upkeep cost, but they have very high morale, fight well and have the best armours of all south american units In reality a Sapa Inca (a King of Incas) never fought in a battle himself, he was carried in a litter surrounded by his best troops.
Panaca Infantry
These soldiers are the highest nobility of the incas, they are all members of inca royal family (that family was really big ). Similar to Sapa Inca Bodyguards in their equipment. Can be trained only in the provinces with gold and copper. They are not slow like Sapa Inca Bodyguards and their axes are longer.
Sacsayhuaman Guard
Wear bronze armours and use bronze halberds, slow, trainable only in Cusco, bonus vs. cavalry, good morale. They are a selection of most valuable and effective warriors from all capac regiments.
Capac Guard
These are personal bodyguards of a capac - a governor of one of the four quarters of the inca empire, he could organise troops himself. They fight with maces, have light armours, have good morale, and can be trained in any province. They are elite but they don't have to be noble, a capac they serve is a noble. The best warriors from Capac Guard are given the privilege of serving in cusco regiment of Sacsayhuaman.
Capac Infantry
This troops form the core of capac regiments, they are armed with spears and wear light armours and carry small shields. They are numerous, have good morale and can be trained in any province.
Capac Skirmishers
The weakest soldiers a capac can train, but still fine skirmishers. Lightly armoured these javelinmen use maces in close combat. They are fast.
Curaca Spearmen
The Curacas are minor provincial nobility - so elite and high morale. These soldiers are the strongest spear type unit inca can get. They are lightly armoured and can be trained in any province.
Curaca Axemen
Only trainable in provinces with copper. Similar to curaca spears in stats, the cheapest axe unit.
Huaca Guard
A huaca is a sacred place where there are holy relics kept. When there is a war, those relics are taken to bring luck to inca army. Huaca Guard are soldiers who carry those relics in battle. They are slow moving (they carry a relic, it was very often a big stone), excellent morale, elite, armed with heavy maces.
Quechua Slingers
The incas were excelletn marksmen when it comes to sling. These Quechua peasants have rather poor morale and are ligthly armoured, use maces in h2h combat, numerous, the lowest building requirement, they are fast. They can be also trained by two other factions - the Chancas and the Huancas.
Quechua Warriors
Armed with javelins, fast, numerous, stronger in h2h than slingers, can also be trained by the Chancas and the Huancas. Both Quechua units will be restricted only to the provinces where quechua people lived at the time.
Yanaconas
Kind of weak Militia unit, armed with maces, poor morale, cheap. Yanaconas were servants of inca nobility and they were always local people.
Chinchansuyu Light Spearmen
Just as the name says they are lightly armed and armoured spearmen, they have good morale, are elite. They can be trained only in the provinces covering Chinchansuyu (one of the quarters of inca empire).
Antisuyu Warriors
The only archers inca can get The Incas really didn't use bows almost at all. These soldiers represent the forest people of Antisuyu (the north-east quarterof the empire). They use clubs in h2h combat, fast. Can be trained only in the forests of Antisuyu.
Tahuantisuyu (Imperial) Slingers
As the inca could control almost every aspect of the empire, he could also select the best troops for his imperial regiment. These Slingers are the best this faction can get, deadly from a distance and dangerous in close combat. Fast.
Tahuantisuyu (Imperial) Macemen
Just as the name says. Another unit of imperial regiment.
Tahuantisuyu (Imperial) Javelinmen
The best javelinmen of inca.
So as you can see there are 17 units, 2 of which can be trained also by other factions, most of the units are going to be region-specific or resource-specific. I'm now working on units for the Collas and Chimu and other south american factions.
If anybody has any suggestions on whether some of these units are not historically correct or just has some interesting info regarding things I'm working on, please let me know.
There are many things to be done yet. Any help would be welcome.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/handball.gif
.EC.
The Blind King of Bohemia
12-30-2003, 20:46
sounds really good boys, i love this period and will enjoy the mod when its released. How are the units coming along? I would love to see the screen shots but i could imagine the mod must be very difficult and i wish you all the best with it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
we haven't done any images yet i don't think HBOI might of done some other than the flags.
we are still planning what the mod will include and then all the programming and art will be done in a short period of time (a couple of weeks from the start of beginning the real work) and the mod should be in Alpha or Beta Stage then we release to playtesters and iron out the bugs.
thanks dessa
(im working on our own website now)
a word document showing the latest mayan tech tree with the new mayan factions (known as Chitchzen Mayan & Uxmal Maya) with arrows pointing out building tree and unit differences and such between the two mayan factions.
Techtree (http://www.geocities.com/dessa14blue/)
click on the link
Thanks dessa
CORRECTION: UXMAL IS NOT THE NEW MAYAN FACTION, TIKAL IS I APOLIGISE FOR THIS AND IF YOU READ THE TECH TREE REMEMBER "TIKAL" NOT "UXMAL"
Thanks dessa
Antalis::
01-03-2004, 09:52
Do you already have the campaignmap?
If so, please post a pic http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif .
That would be wonderful.
greetings:
Antalis http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
no im so very sorry antalis but my comp has major problems with lukmapmaker and i know not how to make one so if you know anyone that would be willing to help, point them out.
thanks dessa
Antalis::
01-03-2004, 11:11
No problem.
Maybe you could ask the Lordz, or komninos for help.
anyone that knows what the ancient borders of mexico looked like kinda post here with the relative areas.
thanks dessa
Eastside Character
02-01-2004, 23:22
Minor Update
Now it's only a minor update but in a few days I think I'll post some shots of units. I could do this now, but I'm still working on their looks.
Units
I'm now concentrating on completing unit roster for The Collas. They are a kind of confederation of tribes, and most of their units are regional. This faction will have very versatile army.
Mallku Guard
Aymara Abrubichas
Aymara Warriors
Bolla Throwers
Highland Levy Infantry
Caranga Militia
Pacaje Warriors
Tihuanaco City Guard
Highland Levy Infantry
Araucanian Pikemen
Araucanian Archers
Chane Tribesmen
Guarani Warriors
Guarani Scouts
This list is not finished, some of the names may be changed later. I'll provide some descriptions maybe later, together with screens.
Some of the inca units will propably use Duke John's spartan hoplite's graphics (I hope both DJ and HTW team have no problem with that
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-curtain.gif ).
I have no skills in making unit graphics, but I'm now experimenting with editing unit BIFs' palettes (I'm working on NegInf.BIF, trying to adjust the skin tone so it will be appropriate for the indians). If this works fine you'll see the results soon.
Map
We now have all provinces for south america, after we have the rest (central american regions), real work on map will start. I know Dessa talked with Komninos about the map, so the task will go to the right man http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif .
Enough for now, if anybody has any questions, I'll try to answer them all.
Screenshots coming soon.
Regards
EC.
Eastside Character
02-07-2004, 17:24
I've just finished changing NegInf.BIF,
here you can see how does it look like.
The units on the screens are not finished, the red/yellow army are the Incas, the other one are the Collas.
Regards,
EC
Edit: link deleted
Eastside Character
02-10-2004, 14:43
some more screens: here
So what do you people think about the units?
Regards,
EC
Edit: link deleted, files moved to a different location.
hey EC im sorry but i haven't got anything done
my comp blew up when i overloaded the power grid in my house. rather silly. so ill try to get a cut of central america to you but ill have to redo it.
thanks dessa
Julius Caesar
02-11-2004, 06:34
Units look good, keep up the good work http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif
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