View Full Version : help with france! (early)
help how to unite france with the english, germans, argonese, and spanish up my ***
what to do, priority, how to defend against all surrounding factions, etc.
any help APPRECIATED
Brutal DLX
10-23-2003, 12:27
No biggie, really. Try and see if you can get any alliances, if not possible, don't bother again until they come to you. Build watch towers, farms and horse breeder and town watch etc, so you can produce Hobilars, spears and archers. Then start pumping out units, especially hobilars as any kind of cav that early gives you an edge over the peasant/urban militia forces you will most likely encounter..
Invade Anjou first, and then work your way northwards, leave Aquitaine until you have taken and pacified the conquered provinces. This is mainly because it enables you to garrison Toulouse in the meantime and use it as a chokepoint. If you get invaded by the HRE meanwhile, retreat into the forts if you can't handle them at the moment, but concentrate on removing the English first. Once that is done, you need a strong garrison in Toulous and Flanders, and lesser armies in Ile de France and Aquitaine.
Stop the expanssion and defend then, building up your farm income and upgrade some safe provinces.
After that, it's up to you where to go. Oh, and always let your best generals lead your biggest armies. You should have better generals in early than HRE and Spain/Aragon. Use this
As DLX said go after England first making good use of your Hobby horses. If you still struggle build an Inn to get some Merc's for that extra edge and when the dust settles disband them. But always buy and keep any seige weapons you spot.
After England is off the continent build up a trading network out of Flanders and send crusades into Moslem spain.
This will drain the Arragonesse and Spanish as well as maybe gain you a province or two. I usually make Spain my first target for expansion because of it's iron and trade potential.
el_slapper
10-23-2003, 15:13
France really is a risk-all civ : either you wipe out the english, or you're toasted(wich happened to me several times, risk being always...risky). Try to early ally with other neighbours, especially Aragonese. They will, one day or another, attack Toulouse, but the later the better. Spanish should take some years to deal with Almos, but be sure to appease Germans too.
Once England is down, well, see who is dangerous, & crush it. The really dangerous period is behind you.
Revenant69
10-23-2003, 16:33
One thing i can say is this.... Do not trust anyone. They will always ally with you and then attack when you lowered the troop count on your borders.
I am playing French now and the key with them for me was to ally with all my neighbors first. Then prepare the massive invasion army consisting of 60% mercs. Then strike Anjou as it is a key province which cuts the Brits in half. Make sure your armies can invade siege and win within the 2 years soo that the Pope wont get upset.
After that, sit back for 10 years and build up your farms. Then repeat the invasion, if you are lucky Aquitaine may rebel before the 10 years is up so you can snag it for "free".
The key with French is patience and more patience. Especially if you play a GA game. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Hope this helps, if you need further advice let me know.
Cheers http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
Rev
I try to ally with Germany but that is it. I build troops like crazy and try to kick England off the continent in the first 15 years. Then I empty my troops out of the province next to the Aragonese and let them start a war so that I can quickly eliminate them without getting excommed. Speed of conquering is very important to keep the pope off your a$$. I then build some farming up in France and conquer Spain and then continue on into N. Africa and reduce the Almo down to 1 territory to seperate me from Egypt. Once all that is mine, I build up to max farming and mining and start working on my trade routes. By 1150 or so, I am indestructible and it is just a matter of cleaning up my opponents one at a time.
If I take over England, I almost never bother with Scotland or Ireland as they produce almost no money and they take lots of troops to hold. Same goes for Scandanavia. Concentrate on Germany and Italy instead. Just watch the middle east and make sure nobody there gets too big. If someone starts to take over, crusade the heck out of them.
bighairyman
10-24-2003, 03:47
ally with the spanish, since they are usually tie up fighting the argoiese and the almos. then try to ally either with italy or HRE, since usually they will fight each other. never have peace or allince with the darn back stabbing english. build flanders into a economic power and build up it's naval facuiltys. build armies in ur other province and flood the enlgish province with troops.
onc ei had 6,000 peasants VS 200 spearmen and 20 royal knights http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
HopAlongBunny
10-24-2003, 16:35
I disagree about leaving Scotland and Ireland alone. The desert is great with highlanders and gallows http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Outside of playing a Moslem faction of course...
France is a much different animal if you're playing GA. One of the few things I've failed to do in this game(besides creating a Pax Polski http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ) is get a citadel built in Antioch (I think it's there ) by 1200. Not easy.
Brutal DLX
10-24-2003, 17:55
Definitely not easy. Certainly you need to aggressively take the English continental possessions early instead of waiting (which is what I sometimes do) because you need a secured position and more importantly simply more cash to build a shipping link to Tripoli, which is mandatory, as it's unlikey you can use the Italian and Byz shipping at that time. You could, but can't rely on it and you have to hurry.
And then you have to contantly reinforce and hold that lone province against everything the Egyptians/Turks throw at you, if you lose one time, your castle upgrade is lost and you have to start anew...
Yeah, it's around 1115 now and with the English banished and then repulsed decisively from Flanders, it's time to go crusading. Two thoughts have occurred to me. The first was to send an overland Crusade through HRE and Italy with the hope of catching a ride in Venice. Actually I have little hope this will be successful, even with the help of allied ships but sucking up German troops in Burgandy, high zeal, and other provinces would be good by itself.
The second is to tech up Tolouse to produce carravels and keep to deep water and so avoid those Italian and Byz galleys. All this while keeping an eye on the Pyrenees and building a trade network in the N Atlantic. Piece of cake.
Brutal DLX
10-24-2003, 20:40
Not so easy son. lol. Caravels aren't available until the compass event I think... Barques should do, however...
Revenant69
10-24-2003, 23:48
Yey I just built The Krak des Chevalier or however you spell it. It definitely took some planning before i even attempted to conquer Tripoli to build that citadel there (its not in antioch). Heres is how i did it, if anyone is interested:
Egyptians never upgraded Tripoli so it was always had a fort there which was a bit upsetting as I wanted the Egyptians to do some of the work for me. So i figured that i needed 8 (keep) + 12 (castle) + 16 (citadel) = 36 years to build it. Which means that i had to start it around 1160.
I was lucky and I managed to destroy English by about 1110. So i had all of France, England + Scotland (which was very important).
I geared 8, thats right 8 coastal provinces into ship making so by the time 1140 or so rolled around I had my line of ships going from England (which was switched into troop producing mode midway) to black sea and coast of the Middle East.
This GA gole does help with establishing your trade routes http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Then I started by launching crusades into Antioch and Palestine and i beefed up the crusades with my own troops. By the way Egyptians owned everything up to Georgia and and Trebizond (except Rum where the Turks sat). These two crusades were constantly reinforced by fresh troops from the homelands. The purpose of these two crusades was to drain Egyptian strength in order for the crusade to Tripoli to be unopposed.
It worked like a charm and after a few bloody battles i had all 3 provinces under Crusader control. I started building to the citadel around 1150.
Thats it.
Edit: I also took Syria to really help me with Tripoli, but i didnt hold it all the time it was back and forth. But if i had Antioch, Palestine and Syria under my control then Tripoli would be a piece of cake http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
HopAlongBunny
10-25-2003, 10:35
Well done http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
That GA goal has always eluded me; very impressive
Bevan of Hertfordshire
10-25-2003, 23:40
ok i've got a "great idea" http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif to unite france marry all your princess's to the english royal line and get rid of your line through mad suicide battles or inquisitors, then France will be united
Mwa ha ha ha ha http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
I'm playing France for the first time. I bribed the English in Anjou. on the turn they were ready for me to command I invaded the other 2 continental provinces. In a three turn gambit I swept up 3 English provinces. Fortunately the king and heirs rashly attacked Flanders and were killed - the remainder of English territory broke down into rebel provinces. Followed with a bribe in Navarre. This set up a move against Germany. Of course I got lucky with the initial bribe and killing the king and sons but chance does favor the prepared. Good luck to you.
Rev 69, Impressive. I think you may have something in finishing England off. The English won't make peace with you, so your trade income from Flanders is limited to Denmark more or less until you have enough fleets to reach Spain. You might as well get the income from the Isles.
You can't build caravels this early (Doh)but how did you afford the to build all those ships at once? Keep/port/shipbuilder adds up to over 2G's. Even if you got two intact from the Brits thats still alot of dough.
You're also right to attack Tripoli's adjacent provinces first, you want to save as much as you can there, even if its only a fort.
My early overland Crusade was a hoot. I started with some fanatics and Ordered foot and then marched through HRE, Italy, and Hungary and got quite a large, low tech army. Byzantium was gracious enough to let me through (I repaid the favour by looting a few provinces)
The Turks abandoned Rum so I liquidated its assets and took Syria after a tough, TOUGH, battle against a lot of horse archers and camels. I took Tripoli as well, but on the second Egyptian attemp to retake it, fearless leader took an arrow in the eye and all was lost.
The Crusade cost me nothing, I even made a few bucks, the problem I run into is a lack of cash to build ships and their infrastructure while keeping a large enough army to keep my neighbors on their side of the border.
I guess I have to play less safe if the Krak shall be mine.
I guess I must've got lucky - I got that GA completed at my first attempt http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
- Byzantines were busy kicking the Turks when my 1st overland crusade to Antioch arrived. Even with virtually no Turks to fight, it was still touch and go keeping the Egyptians at bay until my 2nd overland crusade - to Tripoli arrived and took that province. With both supporting each other (particularly by supplying Mercenary troops), there were no real problems from then on - I took Palestine and Edessa by overland crusade, to complete the picture
- I captured the whole of Outremer, and built the Krak de Chavalier without the aid of sea-borne supply routes, and all with plenty of time to spare - the citadel was completed by about 1175 - Easy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif With a little help from my Byzantine friends, naturally http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Overland huh. Good to hear. Though it only reinforces my sense of failure. Ships are such a big investment, it takes about eight to reach Tripoli from Toulouse, that's 5-6,000 fl and a lot of time. I guess it would pay to keep a priest in that area to alert you to any opportunities.
The Wizard
10-27-2003, 20:18
I know how to unite France - under the Byzantine banner. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Revenant69
10-27-2003, 22:17
HopalongBunny and DojoRat - thanks for your recognition. It makes me feel warm inside for knowing that other people liked it.
I approached this French GA campaign with a lot of thought. For the most part of the game (and its 1225 now) i was allied with nearly every nation. At the beginning my goal was to unite France and totally destroy England as it would become a naval power and hence a thorn in my butt.
So i managed to take all of their continental provinces. Then their king came down to say hello to my Flemish army and was promptly killed. He had a son however, who assumed the throne and was killed but a few years later in Wessex.
After conquering the English provinces I also conquered Scotland to give me the nice light infantry of theirs. Just now ialso started producing Gallowglasses (i know it maybe a tad late but its good nonetheless).
By allying with all my neighbors and still maintaining decent border forces, I made sure that the peace was lasting. This gave me time to build up France economically. I think at the time of mega naval production i was making around 10000 florins per year from my farming and trade in the Baltic.
Now i make 20000 with all taxes set to normal - more thatn enough money for my needs. And my people are the most loyal people in the world. Weeeeeeeeeee http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
I really like the campaign so far as their hard GA goals realy make you think and gear your development a certain way necessary for the completion of the goal. Right now France is bristling with mighty Citadels, poised to produce the best troops of Chivalry.
Viv le France
thanx guys, a lot of help coming through here...
basically,
-kick english forces out of france
-ally with germans, argonese and spanish (keep close eye on all of them)
-first few years, aggressiveness. after that, peace while building up economy, including trade
-rest of europe is mine
el_slapper
10-28-2003, 12:30
Commentaire[/b] (Lord_PH @ Oct. 28 2003,10:26)]thanx guys, a lot of help coming through here...
basically,
-kick english forces out of france
-ally with germans, argonese and spanish (keep close eye on all of them)
-first few years, aggressiveness. after that, peace while building up economy, including trade
-rest of europe is mine
Yeah, roughly... If you're confident in your assault capacities, you can wipe out Aragon in 2 turns(to avoid excom). For the rest, once brits have eaten their tomb, I'm waiting, building up my trade, until some fool declares war on me. Europe is quickly mine...
well i dont have enough info about france,but i suggest that destroy english firstly...
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