View Full Version : Elephants or Elephant archers
well i would use elephants more often to break enemy formation especially greeko-roman formations and pour heavy infantry in the gap like current byzantine players use katas or PA's for and then follow with VG's or BI's or the elephant archer a walking arrow tower.
thanks dessa
ya I would use elephants to braek through the line too It makes more scence to me
So there are 2 types of ele. units? I wanted to use my ele. to attack enemys and shot arrows at the same time... shouldnt be to hard do?
A big armored elephant with both a "driver" and some archers on the back... that would be sweeeet http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
ShadesPanther
10-24-2003, 18:25
I think the seleucid elephants will fire arrows but will function just the same way as the other units. They will be the deciding factor in many battles I hope.
I hope you can trade units with your allies. eg getting war elephants from the seleucids if you are carthage or Rome http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe
10-24-2003, 18:31
I'd pump up valor on Elephant archer to take advantage of the missile discount
Elephant Archer all the way
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
Louis,
ya that would be a neat idea like askin for some alied troops for a campaign or like when the romans won the 2nd punic war they demanded all Carthages elephants although they only used them in the arena it would be cool to take carthages elephants and use them agianst carthage. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Barkhorn1x
10-24-2003, 18:47
Quote[/b] (ShadesPanther @ Oct. 24 2003,12:25)]They will be the deciding factor in many battles I hope.
I hope not - as historically they really weren't decisive - w/ one or 2 exceptions - they were expensive (and I hope that shows in R:TW) and almost as much of a danger to their own side than the enemy (and I know R:TW will show this).
If elephants are portrayed correctly - as the R:TW version of a Naptha thrower - then I won't waste my time or $$ on them. I would much rather have more heavy infantry/cavalry.
If they come off as some sort of super tank - then I'll have to - as my opponent surely will.
Barkhorn.
True Blackhorn in zama the elephants panicked and many ran back into there own army almost deciding the battle there.
also they arent the smartest animals and it shouldnt be hard to out manouver elephants as in zama again yours truly made spaces inbetween his army and the elephants(what was left of them) filtered throught the army with minimum casualties so the shouldnt be the super power or tank of the ancient world wich makes sence in balancing the game
Quote[/b] (Scipio @ Oct. 24 2003,13:28)]also they arent the smartest animals
Well that is right, we are. But elephants are quite bright animals. So if we argued like this any cavalry would be hard to use because of their lack of intelligence... Yup, that is right, horses are bumbling idiots compared to an elephant.
Ya Im not comparing it to a horse by its wits I used the wrong words sorry what I ment is that horse are easier to turn when moving at fast speeds so that an army can out manouver an elephant but not horses(cavalry) as easily because horses you can turn directions easier
Yeah that is right... But cavalry isn't going to be any good unless they have some ranged ability (I hope). Can you imagine an easier target than a nice big horse for an elephant? Keeping the distance is the right way to go with them, and some have noticed that in the last battle of TC. Seems fair.
did it say somewhere that there would be more than one kind of elephant?
Anyway, armored eles for me, to break enemy lines http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
well no it didn't say anything but any game made by a company with rome in it is sure to have two types of elephants and i don't think it is too easy to change formation quick enough (this is using greeko-roman formations) to avoid you troops being opened up and spread out by a couple of elephants (and there is NO WAY A TORTOISE SHELL CAN BEAT A 2 TON ELEPHANT so don't say one can) elephants aren't meant to kill lots of enemy troops just create an opening for heavy infantry to fill
thanks dessa
ShadesPanther
10-25-2003, 11:25
In the last TC there were two types
The Egyptians had a tiny elephant with just the man sitting on it and it had no armour
The Seleucids had a massive Elephant with a driver sitting on its neck and had a big box thing on its back with two archers
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
but an elephant archer won't break formation for you heavy infantry to fill. as a whole archers cause the least kills in a battle most are killed by infantry
thanks dessa
Quote[/b] (dessa14 @ Oct. 27 2003,12:27)]but an elephant archer won't break formation for you heavy infantry to fill. as a whole archers cause the least kills in a battle most are killed by infantry
thanks dessa
think again ... longbowmen, mongol archers ...
Also, those archers in the towers were only meant to ward away enemy light infantry that would try to harass the elephants. The elephants were the true weapons.
Quote[/b] ]Yeah that is right... But cavalry isn't going to be any good unless they have some ranged ability (I hope). Can you imagine an easier target than a nice big horse for an elephant? Keeping the distance is the right way to go with them, and some have noticed that in the last battle of TC. Seems fair.
-------------- Ya I think skirmishing with horse archers/spearmen should become a much bigger part in battles as thats how a battle began skirmishing and then full scale http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
The Wizard
10-27-2003, 20:22
The question is... what to do with Elephant archers after they run out of ammo? It would be very dissapointing if they would be useless afterwards, especially since they are expensive.
But, if CA are smart they'll just let us use them as chargers afterwards. If so, elephant archers all the way http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Quote[/b] (Wizzy @ Oct. 27 2003,13:22)]The question is... what to do with Elephant archers after they run out of ammo? It would be very dissapointing if they would be useless afterwards, especially since they are expensive.
But, if CA are smart they'll just let us use them as chargers afterwards. If so, elephant archers all the way http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Now I'm going to do something I hate... I will quote myself.
Quote[/b] ]Also, those archers in the towers were only meant to ward away enemy light infantry that would try to harass the elephants. The elephants were the true weapons.
Seriously, what did you expect? You get a very limited number of elephants, around 8-10 it seems (TC watchers answer this please http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif), and lets say there are two archers, or even three archers in each tower. That leaves us with a maximum of around 30 archers. Hardly dangerous to anybody. The elephants are the main point, the archers are there to keep those annoying javelineers away.
ShadesPanther
10-27-2003, 23:59
there were 8 small egytian elephants in a group but i dunno how many archer-elephant hybrids there were http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Hakonarson
10-28-2003, 04:28
Actually the archers could be a major threat because they could, and probably did, carry a lot more ammo than foot archers. Most elephant crews in hte Hellenistic world also included a pikeman for closer reach.
Elephants were NOT normally used as shock weapons in Hellenistic times, with some notable exceptions of course. (Carthaginians - who normally already had cavalry superiority, and against the Galatians on one famous battle but even then it was only after the elephants had defeated the chariots that they charged on into the infantry)
The Hellenes mainly used them as a screen against cavalry, widely spaced, and often supported by large numbers of light infantry operating in between them.
bighairyman
10-28-2003, 05:01
elephant archers , after all the aroows are soent, i cgarge them stright at the middle of the enemey.
GAH
Vanya sez... ELEPHANT LANCERS
Elephant lancers wield spears twice as long as the longest infantry pike. They can dice and skewer a foe far beyond the reach of their paltry toothpicks
Vanya sez... ELEPHANT ARQUEBUSIERS
Nothing like firing a loud musket above the head of an untrained beast to whip it into a frenzy before unleashing it onto your foe A victorious stampede, indeed
Now, in the event that guns are not included for such things as "historical accuracy"...
Vanya sez... ELEPHANT NAPTHA THROWERS
A smoldering pot of firey naptha will inspire the 'phants in a fashion similar to the gunpowder. Only they will feel your pain too... and vice versa.
Vanya sez... every TW game so far has had wet gunny wedgie units of doom. RTW should be no different.
WET PRAETORIAN GUNNY TURTLE WEDGIE OF DOOM
Praetorians in turtle formation bashing skulls with heavy arquebuses http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif The spectacle that would be And to think the Senate would just knock on your door and GIVE you these units
GAH
The Wizard
10-28-2003, 20:39
Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ Oct. 27 2003,13:54)]
Quote[/b] (Wizzy @ Oct. 27 2003,13:22)]The question is... what to do with Elephant archers after they run out of ammo? It would be very dissapointing if they would be useless afterwards, especially since they are expensive.
But, if CA are smart they'll just let us use them as chargers afterwards. If so, elephant archers all the way http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Now I'm going to do something I hate... I will quote myself.
Quote[/b] ]Also, those archers in the towers were only meant to ward away enemy light infantry that would try to harass the elephants. The elephants were the true weapons.
Seriously, what did you expect? You get a very limited number of elephants, around 8-10 it seems (TC watchers answer this please http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif), and lets say there are two archers, or even three archers in each tower. That leaves us with a maximum of around 30 archers. Hardly dangerous to anybody. The elephants are the main point, the archers are there to keep those annoying javelineers away.
I know... but I was too lazy to view the rest of the thread. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Hakonarson
10-28-2003, 22:33
Actually Vanya arquebusiers and naptha throwers on Elephants did exist, but they're a bit outside the timeframe for RTW.......:)
Quote[/b] (Hakonarson @ Oct. 28 2003,15:33)]Actually Vanya arquebusiers and naptha throwers on Elephants did exist, but they're a bit outside the timeframe for RTW.......:)
GAH
Of course they did All of Vanya's infinitely informative posts are loaded with His wisdom of the ages. Vanya would never bamboozle youz and peddle fickle pseudo-truths and hollow rationale for the purpose of leading youz astray. Vanya is a humanist. Vanya is a fan of Man.
Vanya is confident that the veil that has been pulled over your eyes to hide the truth from you has now been lifted.
Don't punish yourself for punishing yourself. Just remember that what happenned happenned because it could not have happenned any other way.
GAH
Orda Khan
10-29-2003, 18:03
I have grave doubts about elephants. I can just see all the 'no elephant' games being hosted
...Orda
Quote[/b] (Orda Khan @ Oct. 29 2003,11:03)]I have grave doubts about elephants. I can just see all the 'no elephant' games being hosted
...Orda
Which was exactly what was said about the Kensai and the Ninjas before MI came out. And I seem to remember that they didn't become much of a force in MP.
The Wizard
10-30-2003, 20:22
We can never know... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif
Quote[/b] (Wizzy @ Oct. 30 2003,13:22)]We can never know... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif
Exactly, which is why we shouldn't complain. And from what I hear from TC, elephants aren't all that strong.
ShadesPanther
10-31-2003, 12:16
one volley of archers killed most of them so don't worry http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Quote[/b] (ShadesPanther @ Oct. 31 2003,05:16)]one volley of archers killed most of them so don't worry http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
ohh man, that is crazy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
I would see elephant as the equivalent of M:TW bombards: ineffectual and dangerous.
(Somebody compares elephants to naphta, but you perhaps didn't see some nasty naphta players out there...)
Vanya: Mamooth perhaps? Elephant Lancer with long tusks?
Annie
LordKhaine
11-01-2003, 02:56
I think naptha throwers would be a good comparison actually. Both have great potential, but usually have very little effect on the battle.
Still... I remember some naptha throwers causing some crazy damage before. Just a shame they did virtually nothing 95% of the time http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
The Wizard
11-01-2003, 20:29
Naphta + Mongols = A-brand Mongolian horse meat http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif
I guess that in the right circumstances they are deadly... But like naptha throwers, at others they are useless.
In the projectiles file I doubled the range of all my projectiles including naptha throwers. I must say ranged attack units are now not just a unit added in for fun. And naptha throwers can rack up a lot of kills now. They actually became worth building and have become an part of everyone of my armies.
And if you want to see napthas f*ck some sh*t up defend a castle with 3 units of them and one unit of Byzantine Infantry. If they assault the gates the first few waves will get totally wiped out.
Leet Eriksson
11-05-2003, 07:28
Actually i think elephants compliment troops nicely,carthaginian infantry are not really that great hence the carthaginians used elephants to support their troops.
The Wizard
11-05-2003, 20:23
Yes, they had a lack of Libyans in the Carthaginian ranks... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Their cavalry was good though, and such a morale-reducing weapon as elephants was a great addition to an army, shame they were so hard to control.
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