Pause

[Cebei]

I just found how to pause the game during battles. (PAUSE...LOL). I think that it eases the battles considerably to the extent that they could be considered as cheating.

Is it prohibited during tournaments and is it some sort of cheating?

[Revenant69]

Ahem. It is not cheating. Besides the Pause feature is not present in the MP part of the game. The other thing is that the AI can coordinate all of its units simultaneously while we poor humans cant. I guess thats why CA put in the pause button.

Just my 2 cents.

[Tony]

I use pause a lot during battles - sometimes just to see what is going on across the battlefield and PAUSE is great for that.

The other thing is that the AI has no problem issuing simultaneous orders to masses of units - you can't do that unless for grouped units - so I don't consider it cheating.

[Cebei]

Yeah you guys are right.

[Skidrowpunk]

I only use pause when I'm playing really long battles with 5000 men at each side. It can be horrible to sit straight for two hours and play without pausing. A friend, whom I should not name, thought it would be an excellent idea to put a pause function in the map screen http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.

[Jacque Schtrapp]

I use pause for issuing commands to multiple units, not for scouting the battlefield or looking for some type of advantage. Based on the AI's ability to simultaneously issue different commands to all of it's sixteen units, I can't see how this could be considered cheating. In multiplayer no one can use pause so it evens the playing field.

[The_Emperor]

I would only ever pause the game to my advantage when I want to charge a complete battle line into combat...

I don't like only being able to Group charge onto only one targeted unit at a time, I want my lines to charge on order with each unit picking out its own target unit.

The only other time I pause the game when I have to get another beer

[ToranagaSama]

Quote[/b] (Revenant69 @ Oct. 27 2003,16:05)]Ahem. It is not cheating. Besides the Pause feature is not present in the MP part of the game. The other thing is that the AI can coordinate all of its units simultaneously while we poor humans cant. I guess thats why CA put in the pause button.

Just my 2 cents.
It *IS* cheating

CA put it in, because there are LAMERS among us, as this thread has evidenced, and such Lamers would whine all to hell without it


Quote[/b] ]The other thing is that the AI has no problem issuing simultaneous orders to masses of units - you can't do that unless for grouped units - so I don't consider it cheating.

Yeah, but, guess what? The AI can't THINK, but humans can, so...ahhh...it kinda evens out don'tcha *think*? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

The AI has a limited set of variables, humans have what? Unlimited http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Does the AI *PAUSE*, when confronted by some puzzling maneuvers by the human? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

If *others* can play the game and dominate w/o using PAUSE, so can YOU ALL

That's my 2 cents, in fact, I throw in a Dollar. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[katar]

Quote[/b] ]CA put it in, because there are LAMERS among us, as this thread has evidenced, and such Lamers would whine all to hell without it

well... thanks for another the dose of condescending elitism, as if there isn`t enough of that already. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif

[motorhead]

Quote[/b] ]CA put it in, because there are LAMERS among us, as this thread has evidenced, and such Lamers would whine all to hell without it

I didn't even know I was a LAMER and whiner until ToranagaSama clued me in. So much for everyone playing the game to enjoy it.

[Zone]

I hate to use Pause, I feel a bit guilty when I do use it. However, my current PC has nearly died (I can't actually play games on it now, they refuse to load) and while I was playing, I had to pause because unfortuanately the battles were really jerky and the only way I could get some sense of what was going on and to move the map around smoothly was to pause. I should have my new comp. tomorrow or the day after which will easily run R:TW at max graphics setting when it comes out so I won't have to then http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[desdichado]

Zone,

i sympathise with you. My frame rate is inconsistent - one moment it is free flowing, the next it is a little jerky and this means sometimes when I try to click on a unit I will click and then the cursor moves just a little and the previous unit starts marching in a different direction. Very sad watching a carefully ordered battle line start marching in circles cause the graphics got a little jerky for a couple of seconds. I suppose I shold try to fix it but will be upgrading soon so can't be bothered.

I don't see it as cheating. I only use it to give orders due to above and to check the inital deployment of AI (I think it is silly to have an army suddenly appear in front of you and if their close enough can attack you before you have a chance to line up your units in a proper fashion. Also when you units are highly dispersed and you have to go looking for them pause is useful, especially when their in trees.

[rasoforos]

cheating or not ...its the only way you can take a piss without dire consequences for those innocent mintless little soldiers of yours...

[RZST]

jesus ToranagaSama, i have to agree with katar on the elitism part. seriously toranagasama that is just low.
i do hope other MP players arent like you.

i use it often since my notebook cannot handle battles that well, i need to use the pause button to stop the lagging going on all time when i choose to manually do the battle.

[Revenant69]

Quote[/b] ]Quote (Revenant69 @ Oct. 27 2003,16:05)
Ahem. It is not cheating. Besides the Pause feature is not present in the MP part of the game. The other thing is that the AI can coordinate all of its units simultaneously while we poor humans cant. I guess thats why CA put in the pause button.

Just my 2 cents.

It *IS* cheating

CA put it in, because there are LAMERS among us, as this thread has evidenced, and such Lamers would whine all to hell without it


Did you just call me a LAMER ?????????? If so, then i take offense to it and demand an apology.

[Shahed]

I avoid using pause as much as possible. However if I feel like it, or if I feel the situation is out of control I PAUSE the game at my own discretion. I played timeless MP hours but still if I am playing SP and I want to pause, I sure will. Ideally you can handle an all cavalry 16 unit army, striking all over the map at will, without using pause. If you can, well bravo, but I don’t expect everyone can or even wants to achieve this without pause.

There is absolutely nothing about Pause that is considered cheating, to me. It is included in the strategy guide as a valid tactic to survey the field and to issue multiple orders. The control interface, though advanced, is lacking in issuing orders at the same level as the AI. Sure the AI is AI, so normally you should be able to outsmart it. We all know the shortcomings of the Ai so there is no need to mention those again.

You cannot be omnipotent as the AI no matter what you do. In my opinion, it is up to you to choose whether you want to use pause or not. There is nothing lame about it. It's your game and your time.

Play it how you like to play it.
Play it the way that you can enjoy it.
Get the most out of your gaming experience.

[Oaty]

I've found the pause to take away from the comps advantage and only use it when I'm fielding multiple HA as they ca'nt skirmish worth a s*** on there own and when I'm the attacker and the comp decides to do a full frontal rush wich I think is very cheap since it happens so often.

When the comp does rush I only use the pause button to align my troops in a formation that I like and the melee usually starts before they are in place. Surprise attacks may be historically accurate but when it occurs every other battle it becomes annoying since most battles both sides were lined up before it started (Am I right on that)

Is it me or does MTW run a lot faster than STW or is it the cavalry being much more important making 1 second of battle that much more valuable

[Papewaio]

Pause... take a phone call
Pause... take a call of nature
Pause... called by wife
Pause... need a nap
Pause... wipe cheese flavoured crumbs off fingers
Pause... dinner

More often it is alt-T and speed the game up.

[ToranagaSama]

For the dudes with the lame PCs and who may not be too PC literate, I'd be glad to talk you through "tweaking" your PC so the game will run better on your systems. Laptops, though, aren't within my pervue.

I don't believe MTW's battle engine is any more demanding than Shogun's, and I ran Shogun/MI with a Voodoo 3 and an overclocked CELERON 300A It ran silky smooth....

For those with decent PCs....




Quote[/b] ]Did you just call me a LAMER ?????????? If so, then i take offense to it and demand an apology.

ROFLOL

Please see Smiley below, eyes bulging, turning blue from holding breath for far too long:

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

Now, before you take offense, I'm not saying that the Smiley represents you waiting for an apology. NO, quite to the contrary, it represents a Lamer on Pause consternated (maybe that s/b constipated) from inaction. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

---


Quote[/b] ]You cannot be omnipotent as the AI no matter what you do.

Omnipotent?

If anything is omnipotent, its ME, Toranaga. The AI can in NO way compete, get real. If you stop pausing, eventually, it won't be able to compete with you either. BTW, "Strategy Guide"? What's that? The Lamer's Guide to Pausing; or, should that be, the Statustician's Guide to Exploiting Every Unit Imbalance Discoverable by Man? Puhleezzeee.

People, please get this straight The AI/Computer DOES NOT HAVE AN ADVANTAGE It's like this, its a mile/kilometer race. You the HUMAN begin at the Starting Line, the AI begins 5 miles BEHIND you.


Quote[/b] ]We all know the shortcomings of the Ai so there is no need to mention those again.

In other words, you want to discount the 5 Mile lead???


Quote[/b] ]The control interface, though advanced, is lacking in issuing orders at the same level as the AI.

Hmmm....you need to expand the above to prove your case. Think about this in your consideration. Just for arguments sake, let us assume that the AI can out "move" or "interface" the HUMAN 3 to 1.

SO WHAT If my Opponnent makes 3 "Dumb" moves to my 1 "Smart" move, who do you think wins?

Come on, if one is saying, I don't have the time to learn the game well enough, and use Pause to compenstate, its no fun when I lose. I could appreciate it more, while not agreeing to the last part. But you guys aren't saying that.


Quote[/b] ]I avoid using pause as much as possible. However if I feel like it, or if I feel the situation is out of control I PAUSE the game at my own discretion. I played timeless MP hours but still if I am playing SP and I want to pause, I sure will. Ideally you can handle an all cavalry 16 unit army, striking all over the map at will, without using pause. If you can, well bravo, but I don’t expect everyone can or even wants to achieve this without pause.

You've lost me. "All Cavalry...army"? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif Sounds lame.


Quote[/b] ]jesus ToranagaSama, i have to agree with katar on the elitism part. seriously toranagasama that is just low.
i do hope other MP players arent like you.i do hope other MP players arent like you.

Guess what? I don't play MTW MP. Why? Because its Lame

Elitism, you say it like it's a dirty word or something. It's not. Here's some more elitism for you:

Lame (American Heritage Dictionary, 3rd ed.):

1. Diabled so that movement,...., is difficult.
2. Weak and ineffectual.

What's the problem? Can't be with my adjective

Justify "pausing" however you want, some instances may VERY well be justified, but, whatever the circumstance--its CHEATING. Just because you *may* have a good reason for doing so, doesn't alter the fact.

BTW, TS is just Fkn with ya....

later

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[katar]

yeah.... whatever.


Quote[/b] ]BTW, TS is just Fkn with ya....

later


it`s a little late in the day for you to try and make light of what you said, better not to have said it in the first place.

[Brutal DLX]

Hey Toranaga...
I think that's enough. You can play the game the way you want, but let others play it as they want. I've always respected your opinion as a serious SP player, but you are going too far here.
I'm pretty sure that you can't win against the AI using a good general and upgraded troops on hard without using pause if you don't use all the little exploits we all have found out about after playing countless battles. By your definition, using them to win would be just as lame as pausing.

[Cazbol]

In my first MTW campaign I used to pause to issue orders. I found that it gave me an absurd advantage. I pretty much played in bullettime and optimised the use of my troops. Never again. I have a strict rule about the pause now. In a pause I may never move the camera or issue an order, meaning I can pause to leave the computer to tend to something else but not for helping me play.

I look down on pausing for play advantage. Note that I look down on the act but not necessarily the people who do it, just like the reloading part. However, I couldn't care any less whether people do it or not. It's theirs to decide.

My feelings on the subject is probably best described by this smilie:
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

[Zone]

Quote[/b] ]For the dudes with the lame PCs and who may not be too PC literate, I'd be glad to talk you through "tweaking" your PC so the game will run better on your systems.this is not what I said. It used to run fine but in the last month my computer has disintegrated and now almost does nothing, about 20% of start ups I have to reboot before I've even got to opening a file http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif Tomorrow, tomorrow, please god let my comp. arrive tomorrow http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I don't think of pause as cheating as such and I in now way condone those who do use it. As Sinan puts it:

Quote[/b] ]Play it how you like to play it.
Play it the way that you can enjoy it.
Get the most out of your gaming experience.

What's the point in playing if you aren't enjoying it? I however enjoy the challenge that sometimes crops up when pause would be so useful. I don't mind losing what would have been a very simple battle on pause but which - often due to terrain - has been alot harder without; I just re-take it next turn http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Enjoy your gaming whether fast or slow http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[el_slapper]

Curiously, despite not sharing Tora's opinion, I never paused the slightest game, even for pissing. I did retain myself, or didn't begin a battle after a certain hour, to be sure to be able to finish battles I begin.

The fact is, Pause seems unnatural to me. In the heat of battle, while I often use time acceleration, I've never thought I could pause. The battle goes on, if the leader sleeps, or does piss, well, its men are on their own That's how I feel when I do play(and by no way I'm a pro, I'm rather bad). Others can feel otherwise, that's their right.

[de la Valette]

If people want to pause to issue orders then thats up to them, personally i only pause the game for non-gaming reasons.

As far as i am concerned you only cheat at a computer game when it ruins someone elses enjoyment of the game. If the ony person it effects is you where's the harm?

[solypsist]

Hopefully we can keep the attitude in check and continue to have an interesting debate on this. Otherwise it's teh ban time.

[Cazbol]

Oh no It's the #$%&€ moderators

[Cebei]

Although God spared me of his words, it is really hard find Toronaga Sama's remarks appropriate for a quite innocent topic like pausing (and forum guidelines). I may not be a moderator, but as the topic starter, I felt quite offended to see such unnecessary words and behavior directed towards people who have answered my question and contributed to the thread.

Thus, it is quite nice to see some moderators around.

[Jacque Schtrapp]

Quote[/b] (Cazbol @ Oct. 28 2003,09:43)]Oh no It's the #$%&? moderators
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif Whatever gave you the idea that there was anything "moderate" about Soly? You should know better by now. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

As for the raging discussion about using pause and being a "lamer", let me just say that some of us can only play for twenty or thirty minutes a day. Since I can't devote hour after hour after hour to honing my skills on the virtual battlefields of the medieval era, I tend to find my skills lacking just a tad. If I was able to devote serious time and effort to all things Total War, then I imagine that shortly I would find myself beating the AI's pants off while reading this month's issue of Maxim. As it now stands, I do utilize the pause button in order to direct a mass charge or otherwise indicate to the men with the pointy sticks to where and to whom I would like them to proceed to poking and jabbing in all their 2D pixellated glory. If the TW series is too easy for you, sayanorra see you in Rome.

Lamer Extraordinaire

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[solypsist]

Quote[/b] (Cazbol @ Oct. 28 2003,09:43)]Oh no It's the #$%&€ moderators
Hmmm....[creates a file on Cazbol]

Okay here's the deal: Everyone in this forum should be adult enough to be able to handle a little difference of opinion from the other users. You should also be adult enough to understand that some people sometimes have difficult moments and/or may not be as polite as we would like them to be. I'm not here to check peoples' "tone" or measure their level of sarcasm - until they break the Org rules.
There have been a number of Org users whose posting manner can be described as irreverent (to put it politely) and eventually what happens is they find themselves alone, with no one else paying attention to their posts or willing to interact with them. Many of these users are no longer around at the Org, having moved on to where their attention-whore manners receive "better" responses.
One of the great features of the Org is the members' ability resolve issues before a moderator has to become involved.. I can't bring the hammer down every time someone gets a little blustery - and everyone does from time to time - we'd have no users
Just be sure that during disagreements, you don't step over the line or drag them out too long. I appreciate being given notice of perceived inappropriate behavior, and hope you will continue to let me know if things bother you.

[this message has been sent to the other MH mod]

[Gregoshi]

In all aspects of life (and games), people have their strengths and weaknesses. Everyone is good at somethings and bad at others. It is different for each individual and also applies to the "pause" issue.

I'll use myself as an example. Some of my family and friends consider me smart (-er than I really am). However, my "smart" is not a fast smart. When presented with a problem, I can often figure it out, but it takes time, whereas another would figure it out much quicker. When I was a programmer, it was the same way. A co-worker of mine could sit down and start furiously typing in a program - creating it as he went. I could do the same thing and with a similiar result, but I would type a line of code, then stop and think. Type another line then stop and think again. Our results would be about the same, yet he would finish the task must faster than I did.

As a result of this weakness of mine, turn-based games are much better suited to my abilities. I suffer at the hands of a ruthless clock moving forever forward in real-time games. Can I be trained to play better in a real-time battle? Perhaps. Do I have the time necessary to do this? NO. Thus I have to accept that I will struggle with winning the battles in the TW games. I will not find fault with others who decide to PAUSE the game. I'd do much better pausing the game, but I'm too pig-headed and don't - but that is my choice.


Quote[/b] ]SO WHAT If my Opponnent makes 3 "Dumb" moves to my 1 "Smart" move, who do you think wins?


What if your opponent makes 3 "dumb" moves and you pause the game and make 1 dumb move? You can't assume using the PAUSE button will yield a "smart" move. If those who used the PAUSE button were true "lamers", they wouldn't be winning even with pausing. And if a Pauser loses, so what? Are they enjoying the game? Are they learning? Some people aren't good at games, but that doesn't mean they can't play and enjoy them. That also doesn't mean they are any less of a player than the best player.

A little tolerance and understanding is in order - especially on topics such as this. Like the saying goes, "Don't sweat the small stuff."

[Cebei]

The interesting thing is that we are talking over a very ridiculous issue. I dont see why people get this much excited over a very stupid question. I just wanted to get some opinions, but man I just crated third forum war. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[brent_james]

Quote[/b] (ToranagaSama @ Oct. 27 2003,16:02)]Does the AI *PAUSE*, when confronted by some puzzling maneuvers by the human? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
It makes its best decision right away. A human cannot do that.

[brent_james]

Playing without pause turns the game into a a match of being able to use the mouse as fast as possible. There is a reason why I don't play Red Alert anymore

if I have to command 15 units, it makes sense to pause, since none of those units actually do anything without me telling them.

[Revenant69]

To ToranagaSama

This is to describe to you why i took offense to your remarks.

In my proffessional career I, unfortunately, have to deal with people who cheat (I work in a university). Personally, I do not condone cheating on any level and I stamp it out wherever I see it. Cheaters are a plague, they are like locust.

As a result of an insane increase in cheating online (will someone ever find a solution to stop them?) for certain games like CounterStrike and Diablo2 + countless others, I have stopped playing these games. Why? Because I do not enjoy playing in such an atmosphere. I do not enjoy seeing my skill or hard work nullified by some 15 year old who cheats for the shear purpose of being Numero Uno.

Hence, I play mostly single player games nowadays. MTW / VI is my all time favorite I must say - and I enjoy it the way I enjoy it. I admit I use PAUSE. I can relate to Gregoshi though, I am abit slower than other people - but I get the job done nonetheless. I consider thinking before doing anything to be a good way to lead my life.

And that is why i do not play Real Time Strategy games anymore - they are just glorified clickfests. I like MTW for the ability to have a plan of battle and then try to execute it. And I do not want for this beautiful game to become a clickfest as well.


So, throughout my entire life being an avid anti-cheater, I found it very very insulting to be called a cheater (indirectly - but that does not lessen the impact) and a lamer. I shall quote your words here:


Quote[/b] ]It *IS* cheating

CA put it in, because there are LAMERS among us, as this thread has evidenced, and such Lamers would whine all to hell without it


Your remarks about this whole thing being a joke are abit too late.


Quote[/b] ]BTW, TS is just Fkn with ya....


I hope you understand my position. And I hope you understand why I was insulted. If you do, then an apology can clear the whole mess up.

I respect the fact that you and I differ in opinion, but that doesnt give you or I a right to go and start calling people names.

Hopefully we can come to a compromise here.
Rev

[Orda Khan]

I remember a topic similar to this before MTW. In that post it was pointed out that a unit of horses would not simply stand there while Yari Samurai attacked them.....no order, no movement. Play how you want. Let me tell you this, MP is hardly any different, go check out the exploiters http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
Also, don't be so reactionary, ToranagaSama's post was hysterical, I LOL a few times http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif What was that about sticks and stones?
When I first started playing I paused, I wasn't used to the game. I don't use pause now but I have no opinion about those who do. My advice is do your own thing but lighten up a bit, you won't always get the reply you want

.....Orda

[Revenant69]

Quote[/b] ]Also, don't be so reactionary, ToranagaSama's post was hysterical, I LOL a few times

Yes well, I didnt find it funny at all.

[Cebei]

Indeed, CPU's actions are not realistic as well. I mean no one can synchronize orders like that in the real life.

Better realism could be achieved had AI could manage one unit at a time lie players do. I mean CPU can change tje direction of an entire army in 4 seconds.

[Dhepee]

I use pause a lot for a couple of reasons.

1) Locating units on the battlefield. It can take me a moment, whereas the computer can do it instantly by reading the coordinates in the game.

2) I like to play around with camera angles. If I have a really great defensive line set up I like to tweak it so that I am marching up the hill with the enemy and I get to watch them get cut down by my pavise arbs and longbows and they walk into a line of pikes....you can hear the screams. It's hard to get it into position if everybody is moving.

[bhutavarna]

in war, you fight by any means to win. otherwise you're just another idealistic loooooser.

[katar]

seeing as i originally posted here, but did not give a relpy to the topic i thought i would now do so.

i usually play the game for several hours at a time, so "real life" does tend to interupt my game on occasion, leading to the pause button being used, i also use it when i get pissed off trying to move and align my units in forests (my personal hate).

as to the assumption that using the pause button is cheating because it gives you more time to react to the game, hence making it less "real" is just silly. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Vanya]

GAH

When you feel a chronic, intensifying pressure on the inner walls of your bladder and you find yourself immersed in the middle of a 310 minute battle... PAUSE can save your life

When youz are in the heat of battle, trying to fend off an overwhelming enemy force, and your mother nags youz that its time for dinner and that youz better get there to eat your cauliflower and lettuce smoothie NOW... PAUSE can save your life

When youz are on the verge of victory, but find yourself bogged down chasing all the routers away, and your boss calls youz up to yell at youz that youz need to hand over the Ferguson report NOW... PAUSE can save your life

When youz are stopped by a cop for speeding on the freeway while you were crusading in the Holy Land in an effort to crank up your construction of the Krak... PAUSE can save your life

When youz find that youz cannot sleep at night because youz are dreaming of the battle youz just lost and how youz could have won it had your pathetic, no-good plain urban militia had just held their ground against the horde of Mongol Horse Archers during the apex of the 37th wave of enemy reinforcements during the critical battle to hold Khazar in 1230 AD... PAUSE will do didley squat for the battle already gone, but if you PAUSE the dream, it can save your sleep

GAH

[A.Saturnus]

Quote[/b] ]Justify "pausing" however you want, some instances may VERY well be justified, but, whatever the circumstance--its CHEATING. Just because you *may* have a good reason for doing so, doesn't alter the fact.


It´s not cheating. It´s a feature intended to be usuable just in this way by the developers. Just beacause you don´t like it, doesn´t alter the fact that it´s not cheating.

[Jeebus_Frist]

I suppose one might as well say it is cheating to use anything other than peasants because the AI uses so many peasants that the "real" units give the human player an unfair advantage. Don't "tech up" any more provinces either because you might generate florins which could also be perceived as cheating http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Each to their own. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif

[Zone]

Quote[/b] ]Does the AI *PAUSE*, when confronted by some puzzling maneuvers by the human? So that's what happens when my computer freezes - and why it's been doing it more - I've got too good for it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[flyd]

I use pause when I need to issue multiple orders, and sometimes even to think over a tactical problem. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif I want the outcome of the battle to be decided by my tactical skills, and the by the AI's level of luck and stupidity. I do not want it to be decided by the rate at which I am able to click the mouse with good accuracy, that's what first person shooters are for.

[motorhead]

Vanya:
Quote[/b] ] your mother nags youz that its time for dinner and that youz better get there to eat your cauliflower and lettuce smoothie

I think this recollection by Vanya explains all the GAHs

http://burns.thefinaldimension.org/contrib/edoom/boxing_smiley.gif

[Lord Rom]

This turned into a pretty fun topic If you've ever played one of those historical battles where your troops are scattered literally all over the map You probably used the pause like me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif . If your troops are not all together you cant watch them all at the same time, so go ahead use the pause. The single player game should be a challenge to ya, that's why CA put the different levels in it. If they wanted to they could make the ai win everytime, but that is not fun. So play, have fun, and Long Live the King

[Skidrowpunk]

Isn't the save function the same type of cheat? I bet you all do it sometimes http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[el_slapper]

I'd just add that the interface of MTW gives us muuuuuuuch more control over units than leaders historically had. Of course, AI has this control too.....

Being able to give instantaneously orders to armies separated by kilometers - without mobile phones - is magic. Pause is magic too. Modding is magic too. knwing instantaneously that you have 51 peasants remaining in "wavering status" & 17 knights in "steady status" si magic. Whatever the way you see it, playing MTW is kind of magic. When you play SP, you set up your own rules. Your own usage of magic. Mine does not include pause usage. Yours include whatever you feel good.

[Brutal DLX]

On account of the peasants, I think you are either playing on bigger unit sizes or not giving the AI time to develop and instead rushing them like mad, because I almost never face peasants other than at the beginning of the game (first 50 turns or so), and I didn't mod any build preferences.

[King John II]

Around 35 years ago a young boy visited us at Christmas with his famiy. One of his Christmas presents was a game which you played using a TV screen. It was a new idea. The game was very simple - two little bars on one side of a line faced two on the other. Each player could control the lateral movement of their two bars and they used this control to bat a moving dot back and forth - rather like a game of doubles at tennis.

Anyway I started out trying to judge what level of skill I would need to employ to keep the game fun while ensuring that the youngster won most of the games. Except that, after quite a short time, I realised that if I concentrated very fiercely, I might just win the occasional point.

Now I was aroung 18 so my reflexes had only been in decline for just four or five years. Sadly in their present state it would take an opponent of 5 to 14 to nod off before I could hope to win even one point.

So there is a great divide in the gaming world. It lies between those with their reflexes in proper order and the rest of us. The fast fingered/fast eyed folk love real time strategy games and shoot em ups and (some of them) don't mind an occasional dip into a turn based game just for a change. The rest come gradually to a rather deeper appreciation of the turn based idea.

So if you look at some classic turn based strategy games like bridge, chess or go you find plenty of people still happily playing in their 80s and 90s.

It is the genius of the Braveheart/Total War series of games that they combine a pure turn based strategy element with a real time element.

I pause endlessly in battles. My mid 50s reflexes and hand/eye co-ordination have no chance whatsoever of managing what must be done in real time. I rather agree that this is lame. Although I suppose if Mephistopheles were to appear and offered me a trade, giving up some of the things which the experience of living those 50 odd years brings in exchange for restoring the reflexes of the very young well I'd probably have to think about that. With the pause button on, of course. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[DojoRat]

Great post King John II.

I'm a mere pup at 45 so I bow to my senior. I pause whenever I feel like it, as well, though I try to limit them. I do this because I feel it makes me keep my formations and battle plans simple and more realistic. Words like cheating and lame, (and taking umbrage at them) are for those with more time on their hands than my pedestrian (sounds better than lame)life will allow.

It would be fun, though, to have the option to turn off the pause button if you were in the mood for a rumble. Remember to stretch before you start.

[Dhepee]

I'll be honest, I cheat all the time. I don't use the command line switches, or give myself work on sunday, but yeah I fudge a little bit. For instance I really like to play as either the English or the Germans, but the Germans don't have longbows and the English don't have gothic knights. So I modded them over. I pause the game because I want to see different perspectives on the battle, or I can't find my reinforcements. But is it really cheating? It doesn't give me an unfair advantage over another person, it doesn't hurt another person's enjoyment of the game. On the other hand I give the computer some advantages by changing the AI build priorities, fewer peasents, and giving factions that I don't play agricultural bonuses. What I'm doing is making the game more enjoyable for myself. I've played MTW for about a year now and I saw some places where if I made some changes the game would be more dynamic, but I've never gotten in the way of another player. It's only cheating if you do it because you can't get over some obstacle or if you somehow detract from how others enjoy the game.

[KeePah]

Greetings,

I have always liked the realism in games and other things like when I was a kid and played around with LEGO I played with 88% realism. =D

I pause alot in the Total War games even load games when I do misstakes in battles, cause I get so bloody angry when I loose. So if you wanna have more realism in the game only save when you are done for the day and do not pause in the battles. Sometimes it can be very enjoyable, cause in the real world history no one was able to pause their battles or save the game. You make your own history to your faction even with heavy casualties or great victorys And when your king dies and he has no heirs, the history is over.



Well meet /{RVN}KeePah

[Old Bald Guy]

C'mon, this is a ridiculous argument. It's realistic when a general issues orders and they are obeyed, until circumstances require the platoon leader to take his own initiative to save his troops. Is it realistic that I send a line of spears and archers forward and the set point ends up beyond the attackers and my idiot archers blithely march into the attackers like dummies? Is it realistic that my horse archers don't look over their shoulders while they are shooting at a target I picked and they are slaughtered by spears? Is it realistic my AI opponent has twelve sets of eyes to keep on things while I have only two?

Is it realistic I've killed hundreds of thousands without getting a single drop of blood on me and my conscience is clear?

It's a GAME It's supposed to be fun. If it's not fun, it's something called, uh, WORK. Work is what they pay you for because you wouldn't do it for free.

Pause, don't pause, who cares? A lamer is someone who rains on others' parades. A lamer is someone who can feel superior over another because of a game. A lamer is someone who can't laugh at himself over a game. A lamer is someone who never has to pee. A lamer is someone without a phone. A lamer is someone who doesn't have a wife who demands he feed the cat in the middle of a fight against the Golden Horde.

A lamer is someone who writes a long post when he should be getting ready for work, because of a stupid GAME

OBG--a lamer extraordinaire, the Prince of Pause

[TheViking]

there is only one reason there is a pause button,, thats when you play long battles and need to go pee pee http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

well theres one more reason,, and thats when you have to go poo poo http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif

If you have to use the P button to beat the game your not so good player and need more practise,,,, WITHOUT the P button.

good thing to do before you start to play is,,,,, rip the
P-Key and the Pause-Key away

[The Storyteller]

what everyone's saying is...

Pause is cheating... if you want it to be.

Even if you think that pause is cheating... that doesn't mean that everyone who uses it is a cheat. It simply means that everyone has a different view on the subject. Saying unequivocally 'Pause IS cheating' or something to that effect is really the sort of attitude that led to the Crusades.

Some people cheerfully acknowledge that pause is cheating... but do it anyway. Lots of people acknowledge that smoking is bad for health, or alcohol is bad for health, but they do it anyway. there are lots of things we know are bad for us, but they make us feel happy, so we do them so that we don't lead a long, miserable life.

Personally, i use pause and ctrl T in equal quantities. I don't find myself using pause to survey the battlefield because I'm too impatient, but my hand eye coordination is really, really poor. I'm not a good clicker, so I like to use pause to issue commands. I've never thought of it as cheating. i've just thought of it as increasing my enjoyment. So yes, I'll play the game anyway I want... I just don't need people coming along and telling me in a most condescending way 'Play the game anyway you like... but you're still a lame cheater'

Some jokes are simply in bad taste.

[Kongamato]

I'm an MP player and of course, pause is not an option. Experience playing without pause and clicking speed are some of the reasons why I do not need the pause key. However, the main reasons I do not need pause would have to be proper grouping and organization. With grouping techniques, I tend to remember what I have more easily. I say that Proper Planning Prevents Pressing Pause. However, SP people deal with a great variety of armies and may not remember every one of their units, and they might not have armies that are easily put into groups. Also, some of them are quite older than I am, and have slower hands. It's not anybody's fault though, their hands just dont get as much exercise as mine http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/redface.gif .

I dont think that over-use of Pause is cheating, but it is certainly not in the spirit of being competitive. If you use Pause too often, then you should see what kind of grasp you have on the control and organization system. You should find what is getting you disorganized, and seek to eliminate it in real-time.

[jadast]

I pause on occasion. Mostly when I want to change from one unit to the next and they are across the battle field. My PC seems to slow down at this point. When I'm zoomed back in on the selected unit I unpause. Sometimes I pause in larger battles to adjust the preset battle formations then its off to the front lines. If this makes me lame - ok. No one is going to stand at my funeral and complain that I was a pauser. Just have fun.

[mystic brew]

well, you can play the game for different reasons, you know...

I played a battle where 500 of my byzantines were fighting 2800 HRE troops, and it was a long one, with good hit and run fun. I made mistakes, and lost some VG when I let them get isolated and couldn't pull them back. But they fought to the last man, and I watched them as close as I could, every now and again pausing and checking the rest of my army was deploying as i intended.

I sat and watched them heroically cutting down dozens of the soldiers they faced.

And towards the end, with over 1500 bodies across the landscape, I paused and surveyed the scenes - thinking 'there's where the VGs met their heroic (and rather pointless) end'.

And I'll pause to order my army into a manouvre I've planned before. I love seeing the trap close, or follow the cavalry as they charge...

I love the 'narrative' of the game, and I try to keep the same armys together for the 'hero' aspect of the game - even roleplaying a generals character.

Is that cheating?

Well, I don't think so - I'm playing a different game from you. I set the rules. each one of us does. Anyone who dictates their way is the only way is missing the point. The whole reason the game is successful and widely played is because it can be appreciated on a number of levels.

It's like reading a book and saying the vision you have in your head is the only way to see it. You can take the game as you find it. To say another persons way of playing is lame because it differs from your own is... well... lame http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I enjoy my game - I set my rules, you set yours, and more power to us both.

[Duke John]

Cheating is by most people considered as bending or breaking the rules for the purpose of giving yourself an unfair advantage.

Giving the fact that the option for pausing is intentionally included within the game, no one can blame you for being lame or a cheater.

No need to defend yourself, whoever the persons are who think you do, should find other ways to make them themselves feel superior. Talking someone into a feel of guilt when he's only playing a game according to the rules is not in my book of being a member of a community.

Cheers, Duke John

[lancer63]

As I said in another thread, I only pause when nature calls. But thinking about what others have said. I can pause everytime I want. I don't do it because I don't like to interrupt the action and the 'reality' of the game and stops the adrenaline rush. It's kind of when you're doing the dirty dancing and say 'hold it honey I gotta go and see if the moon is rising already'. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
It sort of kills it you know. But still I can pause whenever I want. I bought the game, I play in my own time, never play MP and I own the pc. Yes, I can pause whenever I want. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[L`zard]

Appropos of nothing in particular ( http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif ) I once read what to me was the perfect responce to this subject.

"If it feels like cheating to YOU then it is. If not, don't sweat the small stuff"

Only Catholics should worry about this. No one else has to confess thier sins, eh?

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[ToranagaSama]

My Gosh, are you people STILL talking about this??

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[ichi]

Kongamoto's response is most like mine. Playing MP really helps stay organized. I don't use 'pause' because I do not want to become dependant upon it, and them need it in MP. I tend to agree with Toranagasama on many points.

I do have to wonder about some of the responses. Have to go pee or poop? (can we say poop in here, mods?) Then I question your commitment to the game. Set your computer up in your bathtub/shower and play naked - no potty breaks needed

Wife wants you to feed the cat just tell her "hey, cats in the wild only eat once every few days". Get some mice and release them at the appropriate time and let puss-puss fend for herself.

Mom tells you to "come and get your broccoli and tofu salad" explain "no way that just makes me have to go poop" (jee I hope we can say poop without getting banned&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif.

Too old - come on. Take Viagra, it works on your fingers too (mix it in with your Rogaine). Drink some Red Bull (not too much or you'll have to pee&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif. Can't remember where your units are? Hire a neighbor kid to help you keep track (don't forget to also hire a third party to be a witness so you don't wind up like Mr NeverNever "I'm Bad" King of Pop or Father - come to Rectory with me son - Nelson&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Phone call - that's what answering machines are for. The only friends worth having should all be fighting their own battles and shouldn't be calling you anyway. Besides, who needs friends - that's what The Guild Forums are for,

and what's all this talk about having to go to work

Pausing is cheating - one of the lesser charges for which I'm sure we will all burn in hell (can we say hell?).

C'mon people is this 'TOTAL' War or 'only War when my house isn't on fire'

ichi

ps (I'm glad that the mods let us run a little on this thread - turned out quite well)

[biguth dickuth]

Quote[/b] ]
Only Catholics should worry about this. No one else has to confess thier sins, eh?


Actually, orthodox christians are supposed to confess their sins too, but who cares.... I'll probably burn in hell anyway....muhahaha http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I think we should keep in mind that a real battle would last for many hours while the TW battles will seldom exceed a duration of 30 minutes. A real general would have many more troops to order but much more time for it and each of his commanders would have a mind of his own, unlike what happens in the game. So i think it's quite fair to pause and play the role of an individual commander, taking "small", short-term decisions if necessary.

So, i pause when i feel like it (considering the fact that my grafics card is ooold http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif and creates a low frame rate when the battle is packed with units) and i don't feel ashamed of it. It's a game anyway....

ENJOY