Tragedy...

[Siblesz]

Ok... This is what happened just Friday. The kid that died was my friend at school, and a very good one i must say. I just want you all to know what happens when you let people like this get a hold of guns.




Witness says Boca man shot teen as he was running away after prank
By Tal Abbady,
Karla Shores and Mike Clary Staff Writers
Posted October 28 2003



WEST BOCA · Two teens were running away from a house early Saturday, panicked at the sight of the homeowner with a pistol, when a fatal shot rang out, one of the boys told his mother.

Anatoly Martynenko said he and 16-year-old Mark Drewes had just pulled a prank at the house on Woodbury Road.

When Drewes collapsed on the lawn of a home a few doors away, Martynenko, 17, told his mother, he cradled his friend in his arms and watched him die.

He told him, `Hang on. Hang on,' said Inna Gun, Martynenko's mother.

Sheriff's investigators, the Medical Examiner's Office and the State Attorney's Office all have declined to comment on the injuries Drewes suffered after neighbor Jay Steven Levin opened fire on the teen who, he told police, he thought was a burglar.

Martynenko told his mother that as he held Drewes on the front lawn of a home about 100 yards from Levin's front door, blood was leaking from his back.

Levin has not been charged in the shooting.

According to Gun, Martynenko and Drewes -- a sophomore at Pope John Paul II High School who was celebrating his 16th birthday -- set out in Drewes' Woodbury neighborhood west of Boca Raton to play a prankish game called Ding-Dong Ditch, in which kids ring doorbells and run away before someone answers.

Martynenko, who was asleep at home Monday, told his mother he and Drewes rang the doorbell at 6115 Woodbury Road in a spirit of mischievousness.

When Levin, 40, opened the door, the boys were not far away, and he fired, according to the Sheriff's Office.

Gun, 36, a native of Ukraine, said Monday her son pounded on neighbors' doors and cried for help.

Holding his mortally wounded friend in his arms, Martynenko eventually flagged down sheriff's deputies who responded to 911 calls from neighbors and from Levi.

Drewes was pronounced dead at Delray Medical Center. Martynenko told his mother he was handcuffed and held by deputies for several hours.

Drewes and Martynenko, a recent graduate of Boca Raton High School, have been friends for years, Gun said. They met after Gun began work at a Boca Raton beauty salon owned by Drewes' aunt.

Gun's eyes reddened as she spoke softly about attending Drewes' birthday party Saturday and watching him grow up over the years.

He just wanted to enjoy being 16 years old, she said.



Tainted crime scene

Relatives said the teens were unarmed and had spent the evening together at Drewes' birthday party and stopped at a carnival at nearby St. Jude Catholic Church before starting in on the pranks.

Levin, an accountant who apparently lives alone, told investigators he feared for his life when he shot Drewes.

In a brief interview at his front door Monday, Levin said he was in the process of hiring an attorney. He pointed to the remnants of a vigil held on his lawn Sunday night. Candle wax mottled the sidewalk in front of his home, and frayed roses lay on the grass. His green mailbox at the street had been bashed in and knocked to the ground.

They polluted a crime scene, Levin said.

Levin has reported vandalism at his house twice within the past four years, according to Sheriff's Office reports. In March 2000, he told police two windows in the front of his home were broken by a paint ball.

In a second incident, Levin told deputies in February 2001 that he found a hole in a bedroom window.

No arrests were made.

Shock over Drewes' death echoed through the neighborhood and the Pope John Paul II campus in Boca Raton.

They're supporting one another, holding each other up. There's a lot of broken hearts here today, said the Rev. Guy Fiano, president of the 925-student school.

Teachers allowed students to hold impromptu memorials and prayer meetings throughout the day. The school day began with a prayer over the school's closed-circuit TV system, and a picture of Drewes was frozen on classroom monitors all day.

He has a great spirit. He was a role model, Fiano said.

After school, several of Drewes' classmates drove to Woodbury Road to pay their respects and stand silently at the spot where he dropped. A small wooden cross, a bouquet of wilted flowers and a couple candles were placed on the flattened grass where the teenager died.



Halloween items

Drewes, who had just joined the school's soccer team, also was active at St. Jude, where he helped lead Life Teen, a prayer and social group for teens.

He was quiet, a good kid, funny. He never got in trouble, said Brandon Fustiano, 18, a senior at Pope John Paul II who lives nearby and often gave Drewes a ride to and from school. It makes me sick.

In front of the Drewes home was a handmade sign with a message in black marker: We love you Mark.

The meandering, well-tended Woodbury Street doesn't resemble a likely crime scene. In the front lawns of some homes are Halloween decorations, including a green-headed Frankenstein hugging a palm tree.

Levin grew up in Baltimore, the son of a dentist, according to family friend Dewey Dub. He said Levin moved to his parents' home west of Boca Raton about 20 years ago, and for about the last seven years has lived on Woodbury Road.

He was a good kid and a good neighbor. If he was a bum, I'd say so, said Dub. He always offered us help. He would work with you all day if he had to.

Sheriff's spokeswoman Diane Carhart refused to discuss the case, saying only that detectives hope to meet with the State Attorney's Office within the next week to determine whether criminal charges are warranted. She said Levin has cooperated with detectives. Carhart said the detectives don't think he is a flight risk, but she declined to elaborate why.

A public memorial Mass will be held at 5 p.m. Wednesday at St. Jude Catholic Church, 21689 Toledo Road, said William Savino of Babione Funeral Home in Boca Raton. There will be no visitation. In lieu of flowers, Drewes' godmother, Kathy Lepore, said the family requests memorial contributions to the YMCA of Boca Raton Peter Blum Family Center, 6631 Palmetto Circle S., Boca Raton, FL 33433.

Staff Writers Leon Fooksman and Jon Burstein contributed to this report.

Tal Abbady can be reached at tabbady@sun-sentinel.com or 561-243-6624.



PHOTOS


http://www.sun-sentinel.com/media/photo/2003-10/9978772.jpg
Mark Drewes




http://www.sun-sentinel.com/media/photo/2003-10/9972089.jpg
Home where shooting occured
(Photo by Scott Fisher/ Sun-Sentinel)




Copyright © 2003, South Florida Sun-Sentinel


http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/pal...=sfla-news-palm (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/palmbeach/sfl-pdeath28oct28,0,5247810.story?coll=sfla-news-palm)

[Papewaio]

Quote[/b] (Siblesz @ Oct. 29 2003,10:29)]Levin, an accountant who apparently lives alone, told investigators he feared for his life when he shot Drewes.
Must be one hell of a coward to fear for ones life when:

a) Hear a door bell ring.
b) See two youths running away.
c) Shoot at them in the back.

Pranks are stupid. But no way would even a broken window give the right for someone to take a life.

Accountant 'Someone who knows the cost of everything without knowing the value of anything'.

[shand994]

When will they learn that if you dont let people have guns, then people dont get shot.

[desdichado]

Quote[/b] (Papewaio @ Oct. 29 2003,11:38)]Accountant 'Someone who knows the cost of everything without knowing the value of anything'.
As my job is in accounting (I don't consider myself an accountant) I find it sad that this statement is altogether too often true in my profession. However, i think this situation goes beyond that (I am guessing this was a bit of a light hearted jest so won't take personally).

Siblesz, you have my condolences - this sort of sensless waste makes me wonder about our so called civilised society.

[Papewaio]

It was definitly a jest to balance out the pathos of the article... that and I like taking cheap shots at fellow number crunchers (science grad myself)...

[el_slapper]

What is impressive is the level of fear that does lead to such horrors. And, AFAIK, legitimate defence need that the danger is deadly & immediate. And the defence appropriate(i.e. if someone uses its fists, you can stun him, not shoot him. If he's got a gun, otoh...)

Someone not paralyzed by fear would not take its gun for a simple thing like that. the victim's family & friends have my condoleances. People who live in fear all their lives(thanks god, they do not all finish as criminals), well, I complain them.

[Brother Derfel]

Why when you hear the door bell go would you take a gun with you to answer it?

And how is the sight of two teenagers running away ment to make you fear for your life?



Either that man was a serious idiot, or there are somthings that we are not being told. I can see no logical reason for the reaction that man had to a simple prank, even with the vandalism he had suffered before.

A very sad case http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[Gregoshi]

Condolences to you Siblesz and all other family and friends affected by this. It is a tragedy indeed. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif It makes no sense whatsoever.

Last month in Philadelphia, a 15 year old boy was shot and killed when he answered a persistent knocking at the door at 5am. Apparently the bullet was meant for the boy's older brother, who owed the murder $20. $20 Some people have no appreciation for the value of life.

[Brother Derfel]

Quote[/b] (Gregoshi @ Oct. 29 2003,10:17)]Last month in Philadelphia, a 15 year old boy was shot and killed when he answered a persistent knocking at the door at 5am. Apparently the bullet was meant for the boy's older brother, who owed the murder $20. $20 Some people have no appreciation for the value of life.
And that sort of person is alowd to own a gun? It makes me feel sick http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[NagatsukaShumi]

Without wanting to start an anti-gun thread, I must say allowing guns is a dumb idea, I know they check your past but theres no telling whether someone with a sane past is heading for a sane future.

This is a very sad case, pranks are stupid, but should the culprit pay for it with their life? No, a broken window should amount to him paying out to fix it. The man who said he feared for his life is obviously a coward, what is life threatening about to youth's running away from your house? This isn't a war, it isn't you goal to kill anything that moves, its a very stupid excuse for an action that should never have took place. The family and friends have my condolences.

[Lord Of Storms]

A terrible tragedy indeed, I dont see how two teens running away with there backs to the shooter presents any real threat, I think this guy just went to far and belongs in jail. I pray that justice will be srved or this could get real ugly...LOS

[The_Emperor]

Hey LOS is a MOD as Well??? Congrats

Guns don't kill people, people kill people... Yeah but the gun tends to help

[Vigi]

I am saddened to hear this news. My condolences to you and the kid's family. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif


As for guns and the like..I'd rather not get into that issue so I will simply offer you my condolences and prayers.

[Red Harvest]

You are only hearing one side of the story. Sucks that the kid got killed, but if you are going to pull pranks like that you better realize there is some risk involved. It's one thing to pull a prank on someone you know, but it's FRIGGIN' STUPID to pull something like this on strangers.

If the guy in the house has a history of problems with folks messing with him, then he might truly have feared for his safety. Without being there you can't tell what was going on. I've seen some of these pranks before...I'll bet you a large sum that we are not getting the full story on the prank...or whether or not this was the first time they screwed with the guy.

This might be a candidate for the Darwin Award.

[Papewaio]

While I agree that I doubt we are getting the entire picture I do think the man's response to the prank is way out of line. The report indicates that the minor was shot in the back.

It is a disproportionate use of force considering the threat.

If the kids are already hot footing it then the only really legit response is to call the police and/or take a shot with a camera.

In no way is this a Darwin award. A Darwin award is doing something that is elaborate and fairly stupid and has a high chance of death. Like attaching a rocket motor to a car, or lots of balloons to a chair or pretending to have WMD...

[Red Harvest]

Quote[/b] (Papewaio @ Oct. 29 2003,21:48)]It is a disproportionate use of force considering the threat.

If the kids are already hot footing it then the only really legit response is to call the police and/or take a shot with a camera.
The problem is that you are only getting one side of the story... Completely subjective journalism. What was the time of day? Early Saturday ... how early? 2AM? 8 AM, 10 AM? It says they were at a carnival earlier in the evening implying that it was in the night time AM of Saturday. What do you bet these two were screaming or pounding on the door?

Put yourself in this potential scenario:
You get rousted from your bed at 2AM to the sound of some unknown folks who you believe are burglarizing or vandalizing your house. You grab a gun and go to investigate.

From what I could see in the article (including the mailbox bashing and shot out windows) this is likely to be a tragic accident. Yep, the shooter *apparently* made a bad call (can't be too swift to judge when all you have is clealy biased article.) He didn't create the situation though, the people rousting him did. I'm a bit leery of depending on the word of a co-conspirator in a crime (even though it might have been a minor disturbing-the-peace/trespass incident.)

No, I'm not saying the shooting is justified...but I'll not rush to judgement based on a very flawed article. The thread could just as well been titled, Stupid prank gets teen shot to death.

[Obex]

Siblesz, I am truly sorry for your loss. Please understand that this man's actions are not represenative of all gun owners.

[A.Saturnus]

Quote[/b] (Red Harvest @ Oct. 30 2003,05:22)]Put yourself in this potential scenario:
You get rousted from your bed at 2AM to the sound of some unknown folks who you believe are burglarizing or vandalizing your house. You grab a gun and go to investigate.
Are you seriously saying you could imagine yourself doing the same thing in such a situation??
Let me say this: if I am living in Afghanistan in a bunker and get roused by a noise at 2AM then there´s still no excuse to shoot an unarmed person in the back.

[Sir Moody]

Quote[/b] ]Are you seriously saying you could imagine yourself doing the same thing in such a situation??
Let me say this: if I am living in Afghanistan in a bunker and get roused by a noise at 2AM then there´s still no excuse to shoot an unarmed person in the back.

i can understand him taking the gun with him if it was 2AM but i wouldnt have even opened the door let alone opened and fired - id be more interested in seeing if anythign was missing - if they had been robbers and they were aremed u open the door and they'd probably shoot u http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif so what was going thru his head - for this he should definatly go down for at least manslaughter

Condolences Siblesz

[Red Harvest]

Quote[/b] (A.Saturnus @ Oct. 30 2003,12:35)]
Quote[/b] (Red Harvest @ Oct. 30 2003,05:22)]Put yourself in this potential scenario:
You get rousted from your bed at 2AM to the sound of some unknown folks who you believe are burglarizing or vandalizing your house. You grab a gun and go to investigate.
Are you seriously saying you could imagine yourself doing the same thing in such a situation??
Let me say this: if I am living in Afghanistan in a bunker and get roused by a noise at 2AM then there´s still no excuse to shoot an unarmed person in the back.
The point is you folks are rushing to judge a man who was sitting in his house, minding his own business, when someone made the fatal mistake of screwing with him for the final time. It appears that he might have been awakened (groggy?) and a tragedy occurred.

I don't know what happened so I can't tell you how I might react. All I know is the story is horrendously biased and based solely on what his buddy had to say. You are taking a single co-conspirator's word for all of this. I can't imagine a worse source to get the unvarnished truth from. I can tell you that in similar situations I am likely to appear suddenly with a weapon in my hand, and probably from an angle that you wouldn't expect. If I think you might be armed, or threatening, stealing or damaging my stuff, etc. I will shoot. I don't care what direction you are facing, I'm not going to give you the chance to decide if you want to attack or shoot me. If you are fleeing (without my stuff in your hands) then I won't shoot. If you are fleeing and you have some of my property, I might shoot. In this state (not Florida) you can shoot to protect your property after dark. A few thieves have met their ends that way.

How do you know he was shot in the back? How do you know they were running? The other kid says so?? I would wait for the autopsy before accepting that version of the story. Besides, if someone turns away when the gun is raised, they might very well get hit in the back. They could have been still causing a ruckus right up to the point the gun was levelled at them--then had an oh, sh.. reality jolt and turned. By then it is too late. Do you know what really happened?

This is a tragic story, and I do feel sorry for the kid's parents. Kids will sometimes make really bad decisions in the interest of having a bit of fun. As a parent, I can't help but worry about this. However, I feel just as sorry for the fellow who did the shooting. He didn't initiate the situation, he was at home, minding his own business. Did he make a poor decision? Probably, but he didn't initiate the confrontation and the history suggests this was in the making for some time. It is very unfortunate that their paths crossed in this way.

[Fragony]

What is a prank?

[Quid]

Quote[/b] (Fragony @ Oct. 31 2003,11:05)]What is a prank?
A playful or mischievous trick...

Red harvest, while you do make some valid points and obviously feel easily threatened I do not understand how you could go out and shoot somebody ONLY because you might ASSUME that you're being robbed. But then again, I do not understand America's gun culture either (shoot and then ask questions and its ever so voilent behaviour towards some).

As for the fact that this incident doesn't speak for the majority of gun owners in the States...well, this is definitely true but then it only needs a few to hurt the many...and clearly, there are many people that have guns that should never be allowed to have them.

As Gregoshi pointed out too. What sort of vlaue is put on life nowadays (and this is not only in the States) ? Clearly, incidents such as these happen on a much more frequent basis than anyone would like to admit. When I was in Japan a few yars back, I seem to remember an incident that had sparked the attention of the Japanese media (very unusual). An exchange student had just arrived in America and thought it a good idea to go out at night to see some of the surrounding area where he lived with a host family. He ended up trespassing some property and not being able to understand or speak much English he ended up being shot in the back for it. This is a hearsay story more or less as I do not remember when or where it had happened and I have absolutely no evidence to back it up, but it does somehow sound very familiar...

Here, one is allowed only to use 'appropriate' force to fend off a trespasser/burglar etc.. One can only get away with self defense if one can prove the attacker either had a weapon or was very much likely to have had one. So, if a burgler was in the house, unarmed, I would never get away killing him, irrespective of the means used. But then, I don't live in America...

This is not an attack on the American way of life since this happens all over the world just in maybe a slightly less pubicised and frequent way...

My condolences to the family involved and to Siblesz for losing a friend

(A clear thinking) Quid

[superman]

While I agree that this is truly a tragedy and offer my deepest condolences to you Siblesz. I completely disagree with gun control etc. here are a few facts that demonstrate the diseffectiveness of gun control laws and the effectiveness of gun training.

In Florida, since the passing of Florida's concealed carry law in, 1987, over 175,000 permits have been granted. An FBI report shows that the homicide rate in Florida has actually fallen 21 % in the last five years, while the national rate rose 12% during the same period. Criminals avoid armed citizens.

Kennesaw, Georgia: In 1982 this suburb of Atlanta passed a law requiring heads of households to keep at least one weapon in the house. The residential burglary rate subsequently dropped 89% in Kennesaw, compared to a more modest drop of 10.4% in Georgia as a whole.

Orlando, Florida: In 1966-67, the media highly publicized a safety course, which taught Orlando women how to use guns. The result: Orlando's rape rate dropped 88% in 1967, whereas the rape rate remained constant in the rest of Florida and the nation. Common sense should tell Americans and Pennsylvanians, in particular; that towns and boroughs with mandatory gun ownership requirements are better and safer places in which to live. A Justice Department study has found that 74% of felons polled agreed that one reason burglars avoid houses when people are home is that they fear being shot during the crime. Sixty percent of felons polled agreed, A criminal is not going to mess around with a victim he knows is armed with a gun.

For more information look at these links:
http://www.suanews.com/article....ous.htm (http://www.suanews.com/articles/1994/mediacampaigndefamegunsobvious.htm)
http://www.mcsm.org/kennesaw.html

[A.Saturnus]

Red Harvest , you are right, we don´t know the whole story. My point wasn´t to judge what in this situation really happened. A court has to do that.
My point was about the relativation you gave. Just as quid pointed out for Switzerland, here - and I think in most countries in Europe - it is almost impossible to get away without punishment when you shoot a unarmed person. Even if it´s on you´re ground. I think this is in most cases rightly so. The reason for this is what we call in German Gewaltmonopol of the state. That means that only the state has the right to use violence - with few exceptions. I believe this is also the reason for the difference in numbers of violent crimes between Europe and America (and not the amount of gun control).

[jacko_uk]

My thoughts and prayers go to the family and friends of the poor boy

Jacko

P.S. nothing is meant by the signature at the bottom

[Red Harvest]

Quote[/b] (quid @ Oct. 31 2003,04:38)]When I was in Japan a few yars back, I seem to remember an incident that had sparked the attention of the Japanese media (very unusual). An exchange student had just arrived in America and thought it a good idea to go out at night to see some of the surrounding area where he lived with a host family. He ended up trespassing some property and not being able to understand or speak much English he ended up being shot in the back for it. This is a hearsay story more or less as I do not remember when or where it had happened and I have absolutely no evidence to back it up, but it does somehow sound very familiar...

Here, one is allowed only to use 'appropriate' force to fend off a trespasser/burglar etc.. One can only get away with self defense if one can prove the attacker either had a weapon or was very much likely to have had one. So, if a burgler was in the house, unarmed, I would never get away killing him, irrespective of the means used. But then, I don't live in America...
Your recollection of the exchange student incident is way off from what I recall. I'm 99% certain that he was not shot in the back, he was shot point blank facing the homeowner because the homeowner thought he was trying to force his way in. He was at the wrong house or something and was quite excited/animated. The homeowner truly thought he was doing a home invasion. I'm not sure but I think he thought the party was in that guys house. You can imagine how that would play out... It was pretty awful. If I were stuck in the situation I would most likely just beat him unconscious and call the police. However, if he was big enough, I wouldn't hesitate to use deadly force. There is simply no reason to put myself in danger to protect the intruder (a truly assinine approach that some seem to think is appropriate.) Better to be alive and wrong, than dead and right.

Europe's laws and attitude reflects its own very long history of unarmed masses (serfs and other non-landowners) and armed gentry (folks who had power and money.) The lords/gentry wanted it that way and since they were educated and wrote the laws... The US law reflects its own frontier development, where use of arms and self defence was a necessity. One can debate endlessly about which is right for today. I'll settle for recognizing the origins of each. The US differed greatly because of development that did not arise from a feudal lord type system. Land ownership was central to development (even though many did not own land, and there were also indentured servants, share croppers, and slaves.) Defense of that land was often left to the individual, because there was no authority that could respond or police it.

In the US we take home invasion and property rights pretty seriously. If a person invades my home for criminal means all I need to show is that I feared for my life or that of my family members. In some situations in some states deadly force can be used to protect property (people kill folks trying to car jack them at times and I've never heard of one being prosecuted for doing so.) What the heck difference does it matter if they have a weapon? I could easily subdue and kill in a few seconds with no weapon other than my trained hands. On the other hand there are folks bigger or better trained than me that I would not want to tackle. Guns are the great equalizer for women or others that would not be able to physically counter someone intent on doing them harm.

Note that none of this protects you from civil penalties if you wrongly shoot someone. You won't be getting off scott free. However, in most places if you shoot or otherwise injure/kill someone comitting a crime on your property/threatening you, you will be relatively protected from criminal prosecution from what I've seen--and the system is not too sympathetic to the civil suits by a perpetrator either.

Many of us in the US don't have any sympathy for the criminal meeting their end during the commission of a crime. The theme is simple: while someone else is trampling all over my rights, I'm not going to worry too much about their rights while being forced to protect my own. If it absolutlely preposterous for some group to take months to determine what the appropriate response was for someone who had to deal with a threatening situation in a few seconds, at night, and perhaps groggy.

That's the last I have to say on it. This matter will be in the hands of the courts. While slow, the court system generally gets to the bottom of it. (Unless you are wealthy, then you can pretty much manipulate it to your own means...right, OJ? right, Microsoft?)

[Sir Moody]

u have no idea how much i am having to control myself after that last post - im gonna do my very best to ignore the blatant flaws with that view on guns in the US so i wont turn this into a Gun Control debate....

[Quid]

Quote[/b] (Red Harvest @ Nov. 01 2003,19:27)]Your recollection of the exchange student incident is way off from what I recall. I'm 99% certain that he was not shot in the back, he was shot point blank facing the homeowner because the homeowner thought he was trying to force his way in. He was at the wrong house or something and was quite excited/animated. The homeowner truly thought he was doing a home invasion. I'm not sure but I think he thought the party was in that guys house. You can imagine how that would play out... It was pretty awful. If I were stuck in the situation I would most likely just beat him unconscious and call the police. However, if he was big enough, I wouldn't hesitate to use deadly force. There is simply no reason to put myself in danger to protect the intruder (a truly assinine approach that some seem to think is appropriate.) Better to be alive and wrong, than dead and right.
As stated previously, I do not recall the exact event as it is quite a few years ago. It may well have been the way you portrayed it. However, I see even less reason to knock him to pulp, let alone to shoot him 'at point blank range' especially as it must have been evident that he didn't carry a weapon. We can agree to disagree here.

As for the historical basis of 'defending your land' I may even agree with you. It is a fact, that our two continents see arms regulations a tiny bit differently. On the other hand, such incidents as described by Siblesz should and must definitely not happen in any frequency whatsoever and something should be done about it. As you said, justice will be done. I do sincerely hope, that this will be the case.

(A very tired) Quid