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kataphraktoi
10-31-2003, 18:19
Who would win? Simple.

Anyone tried a Patrician/MTW crossover and pitted a Roman Legion versus a unit of Varangians?
Cebei
10-31-2003, 18:27
Varangians I guess.

Legionaires would get an edge with first pilum attack, but after all, they are fighting elites. Similar question: Legionaires VS Praetorians??
MonkeyMan
10-31-2003, 18:29
I'd go for the Varangians personally, but then its a bit of an open ended question full of what ifs.
ShadesPanther
10-31-2003, 20:22
I would say Varangians cause they are big viking and saxon men but wore heavy armour (to protect those ribs) and were well disciplined so they would win
Jacque Schtrapp
10-31-2003, 20:25
I would give a Varangian an edge in one on one combat, but discipline and willingness to absorb heavy casualties is what the legions were know for. I'd give the edge in a unit or army to the legions.
LadyAnn
10-31-2003, 21:06
Hmmm, anyone realize that Byzantine Infantry in MTW is actually roman legion? There are some evolution in armor and sword used, but the tactic and training is similar.

Of course, it is hard to compare Roman Legion of 1st century and Varangian Guards of 10th century. There is a gap of about 1000 year.

Annie
Red Cloud
10-31-2003, 22:09
The varangians would have modern (by medieval standards) armor and weapons so I'm pretty sure they would win.
Kongamato
11-01-2003, 00:03
I think it would depend on battle experience. Did the Varangians fight often, or were they a showy honor guard? Inexperienced legions have fallen in history, but some of them must have seen years of combat in multiple campaigns. I really cannot be sure.
Cebei
11-01-2003, 00:32
Quote[/b] ]Hmmm, anyone realize that Byzantine Infantry in MTW is actually roman legion? There are some evolution in armor and sword used, but the tactic and training is similar.

My God, what an excellent observation After all they WERE Roman soldiers Physical appearance (more handsome LOL) and equipment may be different but theoretically they are the decendants of legionaires
Kraxis
11-01-2003, 03:18
Well the description does say they can trace their roots all the way back to the Roman legions...
Funky Phantom
11-01-2003, 05:17
In the game VG's would beat Byz Infantry for sure, therefore they would surely beat the legionnaires who would be inferior to the Byz Infantry (in equipment anyway, no idea about training etc)

Not sure about the reality of this though :/
kataphraktoi
11-01-2003, 05:19
Quote[/b] ]Well the description does say they can trace their roots all the way back to the Roman legions...

Historicity and MTW, a marriage to end in divorce.

No, good point though. Byzantine infantry had similar panoply as the Roman Legions but not as tough and professional as their Early Roman descedants. FOr one thing, the Byzantine Infantrymen were too lazy to build their own fortifications and encampments. Put a Byzantine Infantryman under a Roman Centuriion and watch him work him like a dog, or possibly mutiny. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Sigurd
11-01-2003, 06:27
I always thought the Varangians were seasoned soldiers (mercenaries) i.e. professional soldiers from the North countries.
Well that is the very general term.
The name Varangian was attributed first to the Rus (Swedish settlers that later became the Russians) in Kiev by the Slavic tribes. The word meaning ‘those who swear oaths’. Moreover, it was through the Rus’ relationship with Byzantine and providing mercenaries to the Byzantine army that the first notion of Varangians came to Byzantine. When Vladimir the Great married Anna Comnena (author of the Alexiad) he gave 6000 Varangians to Basil II to use as his personal guard, hence the fist Varangian guard (988 AD).
They where the best paid soldiers of the time and they could literally make a fortune doing service with the Byz emperor. In fact Harald Haardraade the Norwegian King did time with the Varangians and became the commander of the guard before returning home in 1043 AD. The same king died at Stamford Bridge in 1066. At later times the term Varangian referred to any mercenary from nothern Europe and by the fall of Constantinople (1204 AD) there were probably more english and scottish mercenaries in the Varangians than Russians or Scandinavians.

IMO the Varangians would have an advantage since they consisted manly of the descendants of the Germanic tribes with their fierce battle frenzy kept in control with roman discipline and command (well?).