Ashi Crossbowmen 101

[Catiline]

flame wants so threads to discuss. Here's one, i for one am interested in it. Is there any sensible use for the xbowmmen. I can't get htem to do anything, they die , and quickly. Has anynoe got so far as developing a way of using them to any sort of effect
?

This lads, is your chance for posterity, give me asomething sensible, and i promise to imortalise you in the strategy archive

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Bis peccare in bello non licet

[Toda Nebuchadnezzar]

i too have never used them effectively. They fire like guns, slow yet very devasating. I used to never use guns, I do now.

Plus I never play Mongol battles anymore I can hardly handle the Sengoku ones! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

But I can safely say there is no use for them in my army!

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Grand Master of
The Knights Templar
"non nobis Domine non nobis sed Nomine tuo da gloriam"

[Gregoshi]

When the game first came out, everyone was dissing the xbowmen. Therefore I was quite surprised to find that I actually liked them. I found them to be pretty effective in the Expert campaign I played.

As for brilliant tactics for using them, the only thing I noted is that they are ineffective if you have only 1-2 per army. They are much better with 4-5 and protected so they can do their thing. It has been a while since I played a campaign, but I do remember the xbowmen ripping apart the Mongol cavalry.

I have not fought any online battles so maybe in that realm they are worthless.

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Gregoshi
A Member of Clan Doragon

[Vanya]

My advice? Put the crossbowmen into wedgies and put a Christian taisho in command. You can't say 'crossbow' without the 'cross'. They will carry the 'cross' fore in battle and 1 of 2 things will happen:

1. The enemy will repent and surrender so that the will and mercy of the 'cross' will be delivered onto their unworthy souls, or

2. They will die before the 'crosses' of the enemy wedgies.

I haven't tried this out yet, but I do get that fuzzy feeling when I think about it...

Ah so! 16 crossbow wedgies charging down onto the unsuspecting heretic Mongol Heavy Cavalry! Is the outcome really in question here? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif


[This message has been edited by Vanya (edited 01-25-2002).]

[Flame of Udun]

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif They are extremely deadly on bridges, I once sent all my forces to defend the river province (the one near where the mongols land for got the name) 3 of them were AXbow they got more then 300 kills each they slaughtered the Mongols were coming over the bridge (of course i didnt send them into melee http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif ) They also took a lot of friendlies though I used archers to support the YS i sent to defend the bridge because they can arc it over the friendlies but Xbow cant. Other then that i dont use them much

[Toda Nebuchadnezzar]

Never thought of that.

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Grand Master of
The Knights Templar
"non nobis Domine non nobis sed Nomine tuo da gloriam"

[BSM_Skkzarg]

Xbowmen - underrated, but not overly so. They have fantastic killing power, very close to guns. However, they lack the "fear" bonus provided by gunfire. Thus, while effective, they cannot be used as "pre-arq" guns. Since they fire flat, instead of with an arc, like arrows, you must also have them near a unit that can screen them.

I must agree - using them in groups of 4 or 5 is the easiest way to make them effective. In smaller groups, you must position them with a screening unit handy, so that they are not over-run. Also - since they are peasants, they will break quickly if the tide turns against you.

Personally, the most effective way to use these guys is to place them right at the edge of woods. They can hold ok against MLC at range, especially if you put them in 20x3 loose. Armor upgrades of course help as well. Once the MLC is out of arrows, or if they are facing MHC, the cav will charge. The Xbows should be set in skirmish, so that they can back away into the woods. Once inside cover, charge your screening unit (preferably yari sams) into the cav. In woods (level ground), a Honor 0 YS can defeat a H0 MHC. This tactic allows you to pull the enemy in, or force him to sit and take fire. This is of course a DEFENSIVE tactic. Once you are fighting mongols on offense, other units are better brought to the party.

Against infantry units, xbowmen are also useful. Especially against Skirmishers and TB's. The bolts of an xbow can punch thru the shields carried by Skirmishers, and TB's are so few in number that a few volleys and they are toast.

However, you are best off using your xbowmen against enemy cav. Especially MHC. Their ability to take out 5 or more cav per volley (as compared to the 1 or 2 of archers) can over time make a large difference. On average, in the time it takes an xbow to fire 3 volleys, archers have fired 8. This normally results in a net kill of 15-20 for the xbowmen, and 10-15 for the archers.

Qapla!

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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

[Nelson]

I don't like them for historical reasons but I hold my nose and use them anyway. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

I put them in open order in front of my main line and let them skirmish. They will perform very well in any shoot out with AI Mongol cav, who will always stop and fire when they could just ride the xbows down in melee. Any exchange here is a good one for Hojo.

[Whitey]

there is only one good thing about ashi xbows...cost

unfortunatly they do not have the stopping power of guns and therefore in low koku battles they can not be used in the same way against low honour troops, used in conjunction with Yari they can be effective en-masse, but I would have to say that their best use is bumnped up to hon3 or 4 and sent against archers - they kill effectivly and won't run so bleedin' fast...they also get that most holy of holies...through-fire against closely stacked up units. Use these puppies (cheap missiles) in conjunction with a weightier (cost-wise) h2h section and stay mobile - in set pieces there effectiveness is lessened due to their low armour, but in manouver attacks and in their role as arrow soakers they are unparallelled in that they are cheap and they fire back. If you think you are in for a drawn out battle be worried, ammo can become a factor - but if you try to fight a drawn out battle with xbowmen then you may as well commit seppuku beforehand, use them in support of shock troops against shock troops - they require a more advanced ability to manage your army so I would not try them in newbie armies, but veteran generals may like them depending on their style...for me they commit you to a certain style of play before you've seen the enemy and I tend to dis-trust that kind of arrangement but for generals who always go for fast resolutions they are effective, but it must be remembered, don't expect the poor peasents to do too much - leave that up to your Hcav and monkies.

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"Mon centre cède du terrain, ma droite se replie. Situation excellente. J'attaque!"
- Foch

[Tenchimuyo]

I never use the crossbowmen for any battles, for the reason that they are easy to rout and fight like girls when the enemy comes close. I just wish they can fire their bow like regular archers insted of the style of musketeers.

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A great warrior rarely reveal his true skills....