Taking a province, and keeping what's there...

[RJV]

Hi all,

Playing as the Turks, next stop Constantinople. Should be a nice big battle, and I should come out on top eventually, but how do I ensure I don't lose the infrastructure? Or at least, how can I ensure I keep the castle (citadel I think it is)? I have more troops than the Byz but probably not enough to stop them retreating to the castle. They do have one or two other provinces I think (certainly an island or two).

Any advice much appreciated.

Cheers.

[Quokka]

Depends what version you are playing. From my observations this is what happens.

In v1.1 the damage is done when a province is captured even if the castle is still occupied by the losers. If you then wait out the seige more damage is done and the castle loses a level, not necessarily Keep->Fort as it includes upgrades. So a Keep + Curtain Walls->Keep. Assaulting the castle retains the castles current level. This also protects more of the remaining buildings. The higher the level of the castle the more protection it affords the buildings in the province. I remember that often Constantinople would suffer very little damage.

So a lot of damage is done just by taking the province and you can't prevent that, but assaulting the castle will save more of whats left.

In v2.01 the damage is done when the castle is captured. Same result with seiges but there is a random chance that some damage will be done anyway. The only buildings that are definitely destroyed are culture specific buildings like Churches, Mosques etc if the conqueror is not of the original culture.

Assaulting the castle saves more of whats left.

Spies if you have them can open the gates of castles under seige and greatly limit(or prevent) the destruction.

The only way to save everything possible is to bribe an army IN a castle. If you bribe them then nothing other than Churches etc will be destroyed. Bribing an army in the province is the same as conquering the province by waiting out the seige so you'll lose buildings. So if you can bribe an army in the castle, wait a year for it to change sides, then attack and relieve the castle and no buildings are destroyed. Its expensive and hard to do as the AI usually moves armies out of castles quickly.

[Ironside]

The only way to take a province without any damage at all that I know of is to bribe the garnision in the castle (it doesn't always exist one, sadly) and then attack the province next year.
I think it works to bribe the garnision in the castle even after you invaded the province, but I'm not sure.

[Quokka]

Garrison is the word I was trying to remember, mental blank. Thats what I meant by IN a castle, and yes it works even after you have invaded a province.

[RJV]

Hi,

Many thanks. Looks like I'll be assaulting the castle then. I'm not so fussed about the individual buildings within the province (though the more I keep the better), I'm more concerned with keeping the level of castle. My mercenary siege train may see some action after all...

Cheers.

[kataphraktoi]

VI tends to preserve a lot of stuff in the castles, although I did notice a difference in damage depending on how u acquire the castle.

[King John II]

There is a small irony in this.

You assault the castle, let rip with every powerful seige weapon you have, taking pleasure in knocking the walls and towers flat.

The result - you get an undegraded castle.

You starve out the garrison instead, removing not one stone from atop another - result the castle shrinks and becomes a keep

[Red Harvest]

One of the developers said that in VI the levels reduced was made random, and was independent of how you chose to handle the siege. Destruction occurs at the end of the siege/capture now. Note that one reason for this latter change was to prevent the destructive effects of province swapping by the AI. The AI would often take a province only to lose it on the next turn. In the old MTW system the various buildings were destroyed by losing the province even if it survived the siege. Citadel's and fortresses would end up bare of buildings this way.

In MTW you could prevent some of the fixed castle downgrade by doing an assault.

[econ21]

Red Harvest said:

Quote[/b] ]One of the developers said that in VI the levels reduced was made random, and was independent of how you chose to handle the siege. Destruction occurs at the end of the siege/capture now.

Wow - thanks, Red Harvest If true, that is one of those pretty drastic changes to the gameplay that should have been documented [edit: referring to the "independent of how you chose to handle the siege" part]

[Brutal DLX]

Yes that's true. I also recall the devs saying it was random. We see a lot more built up provinces since VI, which is a good thing.

By the way, it's sometimes not a bad idea to add another castle upgrade right after you have finished building the next major one, ie adding a barbican to a citadel you just built. It can help preserving the citadel should it get damaged, but of course it's no guarantee.

[Quokka]

Quote[/b] (Brutal DLX @ Nov. 07 2003,17:34)]By the way, it's sometimes not a bad idea to add another castle upgrade right after you have finished building the next major one, ie adding a barbican to a citadel you just built. It can help preserving the citadel should it get damaged, but of course it's no guarantee.
I do exactly that now, especially near the frontier. Not only does it help save the castle but it seems to trigger a lot more of the builder VnVs.

I am still waiting for the AI to assault one of my castles.