Unorthodox Tactics

[The Ravener]

Hello folks, new member here and I just wanted to bounce some ideas around that I haven't seen touched on much in the forums. I enjoy playing all the different factions, but find the most complex ones (ie: HRE, Byzantines, Turks and Danes) to be most rewarding. I have used some favorite strategies with great success...but have not really seen other folks mention using them, and so I thought I'd share them here (even if they have been discussed before new folks are just checking in all the time so perhaps it won't annoy anyone http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif.

The HRE: We are all, well mostly all heh heh, fully aware of the difficulties faceing the empire. Oodles of joy with poor loyalty and civil woes not to mention a royal line plagued by ineptitude in addition to some quickly developing cash problems. I have found that using the spend the first 2 years building watch towers and border forts in every provence does wonders...but...what I haven't heard anyone do is to move ALL empire forces (all the ones you get at the start of early age) en masse to saxony with your emperor. This takes about 3-4 years (do not worry about garrisons in any provinces yet as I have yet to have a single one rebel in that time on normal difficulty). Attack Denmark once all your troops are grouped with your emperor in saxony, and assault the fort on the second turn following the attack. You eliminate your northern rival, suffer no ill effects from the papacy and get a rich trade provence that opens the gateway to sweden and norway which gives you a tremendously profitable trade region. Your monarch also gets a nice influence bonus which makes his people cheery and usually gets a good vitue after the destruction of the Danes. Obviously you must be cautious and be pleasant with england/france and spain to reap the benefits of the trade lanes, but my choice targets are almost always Poland and Russia for early quick expansion. Maybe a lot of people are aware of this easy path, but I find it to be fun and interesting regardless.

The Danes: These fellas are so potentially tough that I can't understand why I didn't start using them earlier. Viking units and Landsman are vastly superior to even feudal men at arms especially early on If you get creative with the Danes you can actually eliminate the HRE within 10-15 years (often I have to wait out a pope's cease fire order and grab sweden just for the hell of it). Just crank out vikings right from the get go and make sure you can assault and garrison as you progress from province to province. I find that the pope doesn't slap my wrist until I have taken Saxony, Friesland, Franconia, Brandenberg, and often Bavaria and Swabia. Also at this point the HRE has plunged into all out civil war and is very easy to mop up provided you can spread your troops effectively to capitalize on this. While I admit I enjoy a good defensive/thinking game...using the viking blitz is immensely fun.

The Turks: Easy faction to use since you have 2-3 great opportunites right from the start. If you want...go right for constantinople at the start Grab all your forces and group with monarch...hit trebonized turn 2. Abandon it and assault Constantinople turn 3...the Emperor will flee (or not even be there depending on where he is mwuhaha). Usually you can take the citadel the next turn Bascially this spells the end of the Byzantines as you get the income and they have ZERO structures to create new forces heh heh. Alternately you could make nice with them and just push the Egyptians all the way back down to Egypt. Their armies consist almost entirely of peasants and will retreat 90% of the time providing you have 75% or equal their numbers. You don't need to finish them off...just grab antioch and tripoli for the trade benefits http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif. Once I have done this...I send my emissary to Khazan and bribe the rebels there to join me giving me another very profitable province. I then use the Byzantines as a buffer which I develop my lands (and either make peace with the egyptians...its fun to watch them scramble from crusaders...or finish them off).

I'm sure most of you know these rudimentary strategies. My intent is to get folks talking about their outside the box tactics and what seems to work under what situations.

Ravener

[Papewaio]

Unorthdox.

Expert, Germany, No Watch Towers allowed to be built or using strategic pieces outside your own Kingdom. Now that makes an interesting game. You have to guess how powerful your opponents are and keep rein on your reign.

It does help if you send one army on a rotating attack. Just attack a province (burn all those watch towers) and then attack the next province. Keeps your nearest enemy on his toes in a major war.

[Magraev]

I often restrict myself to a defensive mindset - I can only attack opponents who have attacked me. Makes the development quite slow, but fun. Sometimes I provoke the attack (like leaving flanders guarded by only a unit of militia).

[juststeve]

Have to agree about the Viking units in the Early period. I sometimes rush for shipping when playing as Poles, just to grab Sweden/Norway and pump out some teched up Vikings - I have used them well into the Late period (by then their stats were awesome). The downside is you cant re-train them to fill up their ranks, so if you run out of units to merge, you have to suicide them or disband them.

I have never tried pulling all my HRE units out of provinces before. I have seen the AI leave a few central provinces un-garrisoned, but I would be pessimistic and expect France or Italy to invade right away.

I like the Turkish army units (especially the JHI), but they come so late in the game. I like to play Early campaigns, so I haven't played much Turks at all lately.

[kataphraktoi]

War of attrition. No spectacular blitzkriegs, no wiping away of empires within a short span of time. Just plain old attrition. I try to devastate enemy frontier regions and once I've done that I just withdraw into my own borders. And another tactic is to exhaust the enemy by pitting my own resources be they meager of plentiful and see who could plunge into a civil war.

[Doug-Thompson]

I'll have to try that Viking Blitz. A tried it a long time ago but without much success.

Sounds like the Almohad Blitz with AUM, only more difficult.

[Jxrc]

My two cents on this :

HRE: Risky business if you ask me. I usually take Pomerania in the second turn using the 3 vikings units in Saxony and the archer in Brandenburg. A peasant untit coming from Lorraine is handy in the next turn to avoid civil war (odds reduce if you have built watchtowers in the whole empire to get the V&V buidler. The two rebels units always retreat to Prussia to form a nice little stack that should become yours for a few thousand florin. Nice starting position to wipe out the Poles in one blow a few turns later. After that it depends on how you play the game but securing your North border in two turns can be done easily. My preference goes to getting rid of the Poles first since it is less likely that the Danes will bactab you when you are in the process of doing so. Moreover the bridge battle they have to face when attacking Saxony, makes it easier since a few units of spearmen and mounted crossbowmen repel them. Their initial viking is the bigger threat in that fight, you have a good chance of getting rid of it of it is the firts unit to cross so that you can attack it from all front once it steps of on the land.

Danes : Getting rid of the HRE in a blitz can be done but I usually prefer top go east and get rid of the peoples of Novogord. If you do so try to get the three chekpoints (Khazar, Kiev and Lithuania) and wait for the Hordes (getting England is a good way to keep yourself busy as well as attacking anyone becoming too powerful for your liking). IF you invade th HRE that means plenty of provinces crossed by Crusades which you have to garrison.

Turks: One tactic for me. Reach Constantinople asap or the Biz will become more than you can chew. Destroting the Egyptian can be postponed for a while.

[Mega Dux Bob]

My variotion on your' HRE we're happy all under one Emperor was to wait until I got the forts going garssion the provinces with peseants before running them into Saxony, by that time the Emperor's eldest son in matured so I can get two armies going.

The other thing was with the long HRE frontiers was to do a variation of the rope-a-dope-Pope were I hold the province with a minimal force with the real army lurking in the interrior. The AI sends a small army to attack at which point the interrior army sweeps in destroy's the attacker or drives them off. I find this lets me hold a border with half the troops than the normal one army a border province.

[Modus]

I've also used a similar defensive strategy as the HRE - concentrating defensive armies in cross-road provinces (provinces with 3 or more borders to actual perimeter provinces. The result is that you have the Land-lord in the actual border province with his unit, while the real army waits in the rear until it is needed. Reserves can be pooled quite quickly with this tactic, as well.

If given a good amount of heirs, I also create small battlegroups with 4-5 units (Royal Knights, 1-2 units Swabian, 1-2 Units Feudal Knights, assorted Inf / Archers (Slavs, etc)) who then free float as needed. This also keeps the Nobility / Armies from getting the Lazy V/V, from as far as I can tell. These units also then become the core of actual combat armies, while generic infantry (Slavs, for example) can be pooled on the borders or mercs can be hired. Sort of a standing Household army to be used as needed, while the other levies can be distributed and used as holding units elsewhere. Quick way to Honor-up solid troops.

[Mega Dux Bob]

That reminds me of something else I use with the HRE: slavic spearmen to tie down enemy armies when I am hard pressed. They're cheep and expendable.

[hellenes]

Victory for HRE = Blitzkrieg+Merceneries:EARLY
Die or Dominate. Thats the rule.Now ive found shade wolves guide and followed it mainly: 1st turn: attack Venice and milan (realistic and VERY helpful) while building inns in friesland bradebourgh provence and austria...Turn 2 finish off the itals from the continent by attacking genoa and tuscan...Turn3 attack flandres using the armies from friesland and lorraine while building spears archers and um build bowyer town watch and spearmaker in sax brad and frank. respectively turn4 take pomerania to draw mercs in brad hire them and attack denmark finish off the french by takin ildf and champ if youre lucky tyoull capture the french king nice 10000fl ransom...STOP and develop (OF COURSE TAKE SWEDEN&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif...you can make a niiicee TRAP to the italian doge leave 1 peasant in provence with just 1 lvl castle he wont resist the temtation to invade retreat to your castle and the next turn counterattack with large numbers from toulouse (your borther province) he will try to retreat and will be captured nice 10000 ransom ive done it once 5 TIMES http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif and i had 75000 in the bank without braking a sweat...With that money flandres sweden switzerland and venice you have the money and the troops to smash anyone (huscarles+SAP+Gothic knights=meat mashine)....
Edit: the link to shadewolfs guide: http://www.shadesmtw.com/gaminginfo/hre/hreearlystart2.htm
Hellenes

[dessa14]

ill oftenly make good diplomatic relations with my neighbours (especially if im HRE) and focus on my economy my other tactic is to get a large group of elite battle hardened soldiers and just raid all the enemys best provinces burning everything as i go that is it.
(raverner most people play expert difficulty)
thanks dessa

[The Ravener]

Ahhh...actually I had wanted to ask that as well...regarding preferred difficulty level. Expert huh. I've looked at what the levels alter...and I don't mind the lower starting funds, but its the enemy forces getting a big morale bonus just for the heck of it that concerns me. Doesn't seem very realistic (of course this is a game and all...) so can folks share their views on this? Is it just to provide a good nail biting experience or does it make for better play? I'd like to hear thoughts on this.

[Papewaio]

Expert because you need a challenge from the AI.

In defense you can be outnumbered 4:1 and know you have it in the bag by the way your defenders are positoned.

In attack you can win outnumbered easily because you can out do the AI in most instances.

The higher moral gives the AI more bang for its buck. But even so most times you outflank and gangup on individual units... effectively the combined bonuses leave you with equal morale.

[The Ravener]

Thanks for that tidbit Papewaio, I haden't considered the equalizing factor of the morale boost concerning poor AI troop tactics. Ok, next up will be an expert HRE campaign to feel it out http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif.

[LestaT]

Hungary.. nungary.. help me.. it's so hard to get good generals from them.. even royals have single stars.. and their loyalty are always low... any tips ? Only started playing them..

[Brutal DLX]

Give office titles. Only fight when you have the better troops or outnumber the enemy. Try to avoid enemy high star generals at first unless they command a small force only.
You don't need many battles to get from 1 to 3 stars...