Foot Soldiers : Hold position or engage?

[_Hector_]

What the best approach for restandig a cav charge, by footsoldiers.

Hector

[Dead Moroz]

Run, Forrest, run http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

[HopAlongBunny]

I'm not sure what the best is, but this seems to work for me:

Spears: hold position, hold formation (strength in numbers)
Billmen, Halberds (aka: anticav): engage at will
Swords of any flavor: let them fight (no sense getting run down) and support with spears or anti-cav asap.

Except for spears, non-cav will benefit from having the fight take place in the woods.

All of the above assumes roughly equal valour (count the little pennants) An 8 valour cav of almost any flavour is going to kill a lot of your guys http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Massed missle fire prior to any of the above can't hurt. Good Luck http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[The_Emperor]

In my view only Spearmen can survive a Cavalry charge on flat open ground. Swords tend to have a hard time vs Cavalry, and Billmen and Halberds die quickly while taking the enemy horsemen down with them

My advice would be to have a strong wall of spears or pikes with Archers behind. Get them to Hold Position/Formation.

Send the Billmen/Hals and Swords after the Spearmen absorb the initial charge to swing the battle in your favor. Those guys work best on Engage at will.

The key thing when fighting Cavalry with Infantry is to always deploy in a deep formation (I say around 5 men) that way they can absorb the charge and are far less likely to scatter after impact.

Always remember that Cavalry suffers badly in woods and on high hills.

[mystic brew]

when taking a charge I always have my soldiers on hold form/hold position.

Cavalry's strongest feature is their charge. if you can keep their initial impact to a minimum, you'll be ok. Hold form/hold pos takes that away as far as possible.

Then engage at will, and let your numbers tell.

[Dead Moroz]

I like to have 2 or 3 units of spearmen (hold formation/hold position) and javelinmen behind them. When enemy's cavalry begin to fight with my soldiers javelinmen shoots very effective. If Fortune will be on your side you'll kill enemy's general. Then all enemys run

[juststeve]

If it is JHI or dismounted Chiv Knights, they will chop up most cavalry units. I was amazed the first time I saw this happen. I unleashed some JHI on Lithuanian Cav, and they obliterated them. Now anytime I play as the Turks and have JHI, I just taget the best enemy unit and have at it Dismounted Chiv Knights are similar, but they dont have the speed of JHI.

I don't let enemy cav charge any of my units except the spearmen. I keep spearmen lined up in fron of archers/sword units to protect them from the charge - archers tend to rout, and I dont want to risk a domino effect. Sword units work best(for me) when I let them attack an enemy unit already engaged with my spearmen.

Basically, I always engage with spearmen, and then gang up on the enemy with either sword or cav. I have had some plain jane vanilla spear units get pretty good stats built up from doing this, too - so as time goes on, not only will they not rout before the support shows up, but they actually wind up doing some good damage on their own.

[king steven]

when i'm in battle, i have my footsoldiers or whatever in a line in postion at the front then my archers behind them moving free and then my cavalry in reserve. when my acher's ammo runs all hell breaks loose. (god save the king)

[A.Saturnus]

Generally speaking, for spears hold formation is best for defense and engage at will best for offense. Also don´t miss the chance to charge. Spears have usually a good charge, but it´s important that the formation remains coherent (all men in line).

[Cheetah]

Quote[/b] (mystic brew @ Nov. 10 2003,05:02)]when taking a charge I always have my soldiers on hold form/hold position.

Cavalry's strongest feature is their charge. if you can keep their initial impact to a minimum, you'll be ok. Hold form/hold pos takes that away as far as possible.

Then engage at will, and let your numbers tell.

Well said. I tend to keep my spears on hold/hold even after the charge to get rank bonus.

[mystic brew]

thanks.

Spears I always keep on hold/hold...

...But with swords and halberds and axes it's best to let them get amongst the opposition.

Playing as the Byzantines at the moment, and so not many spears to play with.

[Kraxis]

Quote[/b] (Cheetah @ Nov. 10 2003,11:11)]Well said. I tend to keep my spears on hold/hold even after the charge to get rank bonus.
I actually take my spears off Hold for the charge, then put it on again after it has run out.

When recieving cavalry I always put my infantry (except pikes ans spears that negate cav charges anyway) in Hold Formation as I want to lessen their charge as much as I can.

[mystic brew]

whys that. Kraxis?

[CBR]

Hold formation is good for all non spear infantry as you get +2 defense and -2 attack while in that formation.

The +2 defense reduced the kills that comes from a cav charge. A few seconds after impact you can switch back to engage at will (if your infantry has the quality to kill the cavalry)


CBR

[Modus]

If you can let your enemy cavalry over-extend themselves by penetrating your line alone in specific areas, you can then flank them or attack them from the rear for a devastating outcome. Just used this to great success against a unit of Kataphracts on the Kiev map. To my great suprise, the Byz's crossed the river (while they were defending) before I could place my attacking army in position to wage a bridge fight. First came infantry (mass amounts of Slavic foot and a few spear units) whom I met with volleys of arrows and a quick counterattack by my hard-line center (Norsemen to their Slavs, Fuedal Seargents to their Spears). The Slavs broke quickly, but were reinforced by Pro Alls and one unit of Kataphracts. The enemy General unit (a Prince John if I remember right) then attempted to flank my fuedals, sending one of the units into dissaray. I then used this to my advantage, concentrating the fire from five (5) archer units (two Genoan Sailors, 3 archers) into the slow moving juggernaut as it rode by. The result was as you can expect - 40 Kats widdled down to 12 in a matter of 45 seconds. By this point a quick counterattack by Feudal Knights on the Flank of the Pro Alls and the other unit of Kats brough the bulge at the bridge to a climatic failure, as they fought a running retreat to the bridge. Now I turned the Norsemen around and committed them to attacking the now retreating Prince John Kata unit, and quickly killed them off.

Worked perfectly well, although costly. Byzantine army size - 2140+, HRE - 1200+. Byzantine Casualties - 800+, HRE casualties - 200(+/-).

Knowing when to commit your heavy cav / cav reserve / reserve is one of the key components in this game.

[rfdamian]

In a crowded battle (2 full armies) I always put infantery in engage at will (even spears) to avoid a flank attack (a spear unit on hold can easily receive a flank or rear atack)
Sure I loose a little more men but I almost never see my spears routing (I personally belive morale beeing very important for the outcome of the battle - I always go for churches before armouries)

On 1 vs. 1 situations I use hold formation (for the rank bonus)

[Cebei]

Hold cavalry with pikemen and flank them with halberdiers http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[LestaT]

I agree with The Emperor.. that's mostly the tactics i use in combat. Anyway I do have problem with the Byzantines Krata.. (what's that ? the royal cavalary for them).. Even a single unit of those monstrous beast can anihiliate my 3 units of prime spearmen (including billmen/pikemen) My only tactics are to engage them from afar by cannons first , then when they engage my spears then i counter attack them with my heavy cavs from behind. This scenario probably better happen during late periods when i have all my units avialable. But what about during the earlier ones.

I'm currently starting to play hungarians and i find the Byzantines a re my emmidiate enemy (Me not strong yet to war with other catholics)..

Any tips ???

[Brutal DLX]

Well, the best thing is not receiving the charge at all. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Enemy cavaly should never be allowed to charge any unit other than your spear/pikemen in an orderly battle. When you see cav approaching, either intercept them with spear or cav of your own or gun them down with your missile troops. Or both. It also helps to have the terrain on your side, ie. a hill position or forests.

LestaT, I think the problem you have with the kataphraktois is due to their high valour, given to them by either the general or by being led by heirs with valour boosting virtues. Normally a unit of Kataphraktoi isn't overpowering and can be dealt with the usual way (spears and flanking). Check the kataphraktoi's valour in the pre battle screen, if it is very high (5+), then you have to use missile troops and focus fire on them, also it would be ideal to get them to chase a horse archer unit while you deal with the rest of their army and then take them on after they became exhausted from running all over the map.
Also, I usually am able to get an alliance with the Byzantines, allowing me to tech up. Catholic armies in early are generally inferior to what the Byzantines can put on the battlefield, so you might want to reconsider your strategies.