Battlefield Valor Effects

[Kristaps]

Hey, guys, has anyone else noticed that, since the latest patch, the battlefield calculation of the effects of general stars has changed?

I will give you the following example:

Kats (byzantines) have valor 0 attack of 3 (no weap. bonus)
Byzantine infantry have valor 0 attack of 2 (no weap. bonus)
Trebizond archers have valor 0 attack of 3 (no weap. bonus)

Adding +1 valor to each of these units sould add +1 to their attack. Please bear with me.

I have a byzantine 8 star general. His eight stars should translate into battlefield valor of +4, right? Just to make sure there is no 'funny V&V business' going on I will also mention his vices and virtues: great warrior (+health), blackmailer (-loyalty), great builder (+ loyalty/happiness), charming (-dread).

In my army, I have 3 units of byzantine infantry. Their raw valor (before general's stars kick in) are V3, V1, V3, and three units of Trebizond archers with raw valor of V1, V1, and V3. Now, I field this army against germans and here are my battlefield stats (pressing F1)

Kats have battlefield valor of 7
Byzantine infantry have battlefield valor of V7, V6, and V7
Trebizond archers have battlefield valor of V5, V5 and V6.

This is fine, since the unit valor is correctly reflected as their respective raw valor + 4 points of valor from the general's stars. What perplexes me is the resulting attack bonuses:

V7 Kats have attack of 7... (Should be 3 (raw) + 7 (valor) = 10)
V7 Byzantine infantry have attack of 6... (Should be 2 + 7 = 9...)
V6 Trebizond archers have attack of 7... (Should be 3 + 6 = 9)
V5 Trebizond archers have attack of 6... (Should be 3 + 5 = 8)

Has this been changed consciously or is it just another bug, this time introduced by the patch? I noticed this only because my valor 7 horse archers were dying like flies fighting valor 1 vanilla archers downhill in a meadow... I was so shocked, that I started to investigate, and to my surprise realised that F1 screen implied 0 valor 0 attack for my kats...

By the way, there were similar discrepancies with the battlefield valor/defense bonus calculation...

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[Brutal DLX]

You may have to investigate further, as the general bonus on the field is also dependent on the proximity to the general, only units close to the general get the full bonus, I think, the further away they are, the less they get. I think the next step is half the stars bonus. The exact info should be posted around here, I suggest doing a search on that.

[Kristaps]

Quote[/b] (Brutal DLX @ Nov. 12 2003,03:44)]You may have to investigate further, as the general bonus on the field is also dependent on the proximity to the general, only units close to the general get the full bonus, I think, the further away they are, the less they get. I think the next step is half the stars bonus. The exact info should be posted around here, I suggest doing a search on that.
Proximity to the general is supposed to affect only the morale part of the general's stars' bonus. That's why the valor bonus gained from general stars is considered a 'different type of valor': i.e., the units gain +1 valor for every 2 of general's stars, but the gain is only in terms of attack and defense.

Morale gains depend on unit's proximity to the general. The morale gains from general's stars do not appear in the F1 screen; neither do morale gains/drops from other battlefield factors (height, being under missile fire, being flanked, outnumbered, etc.).

p.s. to disprove your theory, the aforementioned discrepancy in attack/defense gains from general stars were consistent all across the army including the general's unit itself... (proximity to the general for that unit is always 0)

p.s.s. i did some more tests yesterday and it appeared the behavior was sporadic. i.e., sometimes, the gain from general's stars was displayed correctly (+1 attack and defense for every valor point); sometimes not... it appeared, the high-star cases were the ones affected... has a cap been imposed on gains from general's stars?

[Brutal DLX]

Interesting, I thought it worked for valour too. I know that morale boni aren't displayed in the F1 screen, thank you.

Since you state it is consistent across the whole army, I suppose it can't be some v&vs of individual units that affect that unit's valour level?

As you can see by the lack of posts, I think this is a new find, and as such probably undocumented in the patch and possibly a bug. Perhaps a dev can shed more light on this.

[Kristaps]

Yes, that's what I was hoping for... I was wondering if this is a save-game bug. I have two campaigns going on at the same time: one hungarian and another one byzantine. In the hungarian one, the valor/attack/defense bonuses display correctly whereas in the byzantine one they display with the minus 2/minus 3 point penalty across all byzantine armies (so, it's not a general-specific bug)...
I could post a save-game here with indications where to look. Just need a place where to post the file.

[Brutal DLX]

willing to take a look at it. I suppose you could upload to the org using the upload manager and contacting froggy. Which reminds me I wanted to send in soem screenies my self for that competition. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
You could also PM me and I'll give you an email address to send your savegame to.

[Magraev]

Actually I don't think each General valor point is supposed to give an extra point of attack and defence, but I could be wrong.

Maybe I'll try a search and see what I find. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

EDIT:
I just read through the guide on the top of this page, and some confusion still exists. Maybe unit valor and general bonus affects the unit differently? Maybe somebody can remember the exact rules? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

Valour bonus capped at 4? Like in MP?

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

Louis,