I bought Shogun :)

[rasoforos]

i was looking for a good cheap game yesterday and run into Shogun warlord edition in a 10£ for 3 from the sold-out series. Well needless to say i bought it , i played a bit last night but i still didnt fight a battle
Any tips for a medieval player who never touched Shogun before? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Sasaki Kojiro]

The ai is more likely to stab you in the back than in Shogun. The campaign is also more battle-focused in my experience. You Daimyo bodyguard is in a weaker unit and your heirs will appear in any old unit, so keep a close eye on the years and make sure they don't end up in an ashigaru unit http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

[rasoforos]

Thnx for the tips Shinano http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif . I ve almost finished my first ,actually second since my first died with my daimyo ,campaign , still trying to find the proper balance. As you said the daimyo's unit is very easy to kill.
Btw is it jsut me or the defending AI just loves hiding in the trees waiting for the time limit to end?

[Brutal DLX]

It's just you http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

Yes, beware of the backstabbing AIs, and always use lots of archers until you get muskets. They are much more powerful in Shogun compared to MTW.

[Swoosh So]

Watch out for those geisha assasins later on they can kill generals and heirs easy and if they fail they try again next turn. can only kill them with assasins

[Swoosh So]

An old trick was to build loads on spys and leave leader in that province making him hard to kill

[rasoforos]

Quote[/b] (Swoosh So @ Nov. 17 2003,06:10)]Watch out for those geisha assasins later on they can kill generals and heirs easy and if they fail they try again next turn. can only kill them with assasins
hehe , noticed that , i actually lost yet another a campaign because of that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif now i have 10+ ninja at any given time looking for seemingly innocent women with daggers
BTW i cant seem to be able to produce geishas :/ strange

It is my second day in Shogun and i am really enjoying it , its a whole new experience and the atmoshpere seems stronger than in medieval ( probably because japanese warfare is totally uknown to me )

[Jacque Schtrapp]

Quote[/b] (rasoforos @ Nov. 17 2003,08:01)]It is my second day in Shogun and i am really enjoying it , its a whole new experience and the atmoshpere seems stronger than in medieval ( probably because japanese warfare is totally uknown to me )
Aye, there is a certain cultural mystique for most of us. However, there is also a level of authenticity that immerses me in a way MTW never has. That alone will keep me playing STW for years to come.

[jacko_uk]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif The best way to stop geishas I found was to use your own geisha. I think you need an infamous tea house and a citadel to produce geishas.

Best of luck
Jacko

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]It is my second day in Shogun and i am really enjoying it , its a whole new experience and the atmoshpere seems stronger than in medieval.
Very true. The whole feel of the game is stronger.



Quote[/b] ] Aye, there is a certain cultural mystique for most of us. However, there is also a level of authenticity that immerses me in a way MTW never has.
I totally agree with you.
IMO, you have defined the distinction between STW and MTW:

-Cultural Mystique
-Level of Authenticity

Those two characteristics make the imersion in the game perfect...

[desdichado]

thought I'd tag some of my questions to this thread.

Have lost my first 2 campaigns (hard setting), 1st after Uesegi clan stormed across my lands with thousands of samurai. 2nd after Lord
Mori trapped my Daimyo in castle and I could not reinforce (he had no heirs).

So have a couple of questions to help my understanding of the differences to MTW. (Am using Shogun patch V1.12 only, no MI or WE) so possibly I am missing out on updates to the game like VI for MTW.

1. I cannot retrain troops. Manual makes no mention and I can't seem to do it. Is there a secret way?

2. No reinforcements on the battefield - 16 units is it?

3. If a province is attacked and I have more than 16 units in province, which units are picked as defending army? Is it random or based on quality and numbers of each unit? (I ask cause I ended up with 6 muskets once).

4. If I lose a battle and army cannot retreat to another province do i lose all the units that could not take part in battle (see question 3).

5. I have heard people talk about muskets as being quite a strong unit - however I only time I used them they merrily fired away without hitting anything even at quite close range. Do they have to be high valour to work?

Apart from that, I am quite enjoying the "older game". I quite like the attraction of having 4 seasons but income only once per year. I have to plan my campaign much more and I rather enjoy my generals having to fight multiple battles with ever shrinking units - makes conservation of men more important.

Anyway thanks in advance for any help http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Brutal DLX]

As I only have the WE version, I can just comment the musket question.

There are two types of muskets, and I suppose they didn't alter them for WE. Both are quite powerful, and you really should notice more kills. They work well even at honor 0. The arqs are good, but the muskets are better, they also can partially fire during snow/rain. I suggest you put any musket unit in 2 or 3 rows only. Just try it again, they may need a clear view of the target.

About the retraining, it's a pity if it should not be available for plain STW. In WE it functions the same way as it does in MTW, and reinforcements are possible also. Perhaps time to upgrade to Mongol Invasion...

[Togakure]

Regarding dealing with geishas, one of my favorite things to do is destroy their source.

I use emissaries and spies to discover the location of the enemy Geisha House once an enemy geisha appears (I kill her with the lowest ranking of my geishas). It is often on the other side of the map, developed by the AI-controlled faction farthest from mine. I place a spy or emissary in the nearest port to the province with the Geisha House in it, and then attack it with a substantial army (or one of my favorite SP army compositions: one composed of 16 battlefield ninja, 15 of which cannot be seen or attacked by the AI until they attack). I make my way directly to the Geisha House, take the province, and raze everything in it. No more geishas (except mine, of course--I tend to think like Bill Gates when it comes to geisha production). I then take my army to the nearest port and return to my territory, pillaging as I go.

When you use an army composed solely of battlefield ninja (192 men), the AI usually (but not always ...) responds with a slightly larger (but not very large) army to counterattack. If you fight the battle on the battlefield map, you will almost always win. The enemy will often run before engaging (battlefield ninja cause fear), even if they outnumber you 3 to 1. I have easily defeated armies 5 times my number, as it is easy to bait them to where you want them to be with your Taisho unit (your general, the only one they can see until you attack with the others). As the enemy follows him, the remaining 15 units surround the enemy, and surprise attack from all sides. Do this on high ground or in a forest and your victory is nearly guaranteed. Do this enough and you'll have a 6-star BN taisho, with honor 2-3 base honor BN. That's a BN army with an average honor of 5-6 Pretty kick butt dudes ... .

[Puzz3D]

Quote[/b] (desdichado @ Dec. 07 2003,23:46)]So have a couple of questions to help my understanding of the differences to MTW. (Am using Shogun patch V1.12 only, no MI or WE) so possibly I am missing out on updates to the game like VI for MTW.

1. I cannot retrain troops. Manual makes no mention and I can't seem to do it. Is there a secret way?

2. No reinforcements on the battefield - 16 units is it?

3. If a province is attacked and I have more than 16 units in province, which units are picked as defending army? Is it random or based on quality and numbers of each unit? (I ask cause I ended up with 6 muskets once).

4. If I lose a battle and army cannot retreat to another province do i lose all the units that could not take part in battle (see question 3).

5. I have heard people talk about muskets as being quite a strong unit - however I only time I used them they merrily fired away without hitting anything even at quite close range. Do they have to be high valour to work?

Apart from that, I am quite enjoying the "older game". I quite like the attraction of having 4 seasons but income only once per year. I have to plan my campaign much more and I rather enjoy my generals having to fight multiple battles with ever shrinking units - makes conservation of men more important.

Anyway thanks in advance for any help http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
desdichado,

The original STW campaign was more difficult than WE/MI. The reason is that the computer controlled clans can deficit spend and build massive armies while the human player cannot. As to your questions:

1) Retraining is not an option in STW.

2) You do get reinforcements on the battlefield. As I recall, they sometimes come on as a group when the commander leaves the field.

3) The order of reinforcements is some simple method based on cost which tends to give all of one type before moving to another type of unit. I remember cav as being first. I believe the original 16 units on the field are those in the stack with the commander.

4) You loose all units if there is no retreat. It's possible to kill 20,000 man armies this way by defeating the first 16 units and blocking the enemy reinforcement entry point.

5) Guns are weaker in STW than in WE/MI. It was a mistake that guns were made strong in WE/MI.

[Nowake]

Puzz3D wrote:

3) The order of reinforcements is some simple method based on cost which tends to give all of one type before moving to another type of unit. I remember cav as being first. I believe the original 16 units on the field are those in the stack with the commander.

Not necessarily. As far as I know, it's random; I had bad experiences with that.

[Ludens]

Quote[/b] ]Puzz3D wrote:
3) The order of reinforcements is some simple method based on cost which tends to give all of one type before moving to another type of unit. I remember cav as being first. I believe the original 16 units on the field are those in the stack with the commander.

Nowake wrote:
Not necessarily. As far as I know, it's random; I had bad experiences with that.

As far as I know, the reinforcements arrive in the order in which their stacks were placed on the attacked province. Example: if you attack a province by placing a 16-unit stack in it, followed by a 4-unit group of ashigaru, then a unit of cavalery and lastly your diamyo.
You would start with your 16-unit stack, and reinforcements would come in this order: first the ashigaru, then the cavalery and lastly your daimyo.
I don't know which would be the order of appearance of units within the stack (the ashigaru in this example). Mind you, I've never tried this, since I prefer to work with small elite armies. And I think the computer would make an exception for general-units. It would be stupid that your best general doesn't lead your army, because he was placed last http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif .

BTW: reinforcement usually turn up during the rout (yours or the enemies), so they are of little use.

[Puzz3D]

Ludens,

The question was about defenders reinforcements. It's been so long since I played STW campaign that I'm very fuzzy on it, but I do remember getting all of one kind of unit for reinforcements even though they were not distributed like that in the stacks. I think you are correct about the attacker reinforcements, and all attacking units having to leave the field before the next wave comes on.

[desdichado]

Quote[/b] (Puzz3D @ Dec. 08 2003,23:07)]The original STW campaign was more difficult than WE/MI. The reason is that the computer controlled clans can deficit spend and build massive armies while the human player cannot. As to your questions:
ahhh, that explains it. i thought I must have been doing something wrong when the Uesugi came through my territory with about 20 times the number of trrops I had

Must try to find copy of MI methinks.

Thanks for the help.

[Foreign Devil]

Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ Dec. 07 2003,14:56)]
Quote[/b] ]It is my second day in Shogun and i am really enjoying it , its a whole new experience and the atmoshpere seems stronger than in medieval.
Very true. The whole feel of the game is stronger.



Quote[/b] ] Aye, there is a certain cultural mystique for most of us. However, there is also a level of authenticity that immerses me in a way MTW never has.
I totally agree with you.
IMO, you have defined the distinction between STW and MTW:

-Cultural Mystique
-Level of Authenticity

Those two characteristics make the imersion in the game perfect...
The music and in-battle dialogue helps out a lot. His dishounor, and our swords will pursue him to his death Or something along those lines. Enjoy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif