What chance England vs Australia in rugby?

[chookmustard]

Hi all, http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Whats the consensus here about the result of the rugby world cup final (much more fun to discuss than whether or not Bush is bad or not http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif) thats coming up this weekend?

Personally, take wilko out and I reckon the poms will struggle, if wilko is on form and has Mike Catt as a nursemaid...mmm...harder to predict.

Either way i'll put my hard earned on the aussies and hope its not another festival of the boot with wilko as frontline act

What think u all?

cheers

chook http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/flirt.gif

[Quokka]

I agree and think Australia will pull it off, especially after their performance against the All Blacks. They have the best defence there is and will punish any loose ball. The English failed to break the French line and on their current form they will have trouble cracking the Aussie line.

Wilko is a danger, as he showed against the French. Its a pity that its possible to win a game without a try and just by kicking 3 pointers. But if he has a crap day or is belted a few times the Poms are going to have trouble scoring. Flately, for the Wallabies, is not too bad with the boot either, but aerial ping-pong games just aren't that exciting, no matter how technically correct they are.

I hope the weather is good, I think the Monsoons hampered the French a lot more as their flamboyant play relies more on ball skill and quick movement than the straight forward grunt of the English forwards and their maul, but the Wallabies are bigger and stronger than the French and if they play like Saturday will keep the Cup.

Be interesting to see if the English really can win something. When was the last time they won anything in Australia?

[chookmustard]

hi all,
Hi Quokka,

Quokka=
Quote[/b] ]Be interesting to see if the English really can win something. When was the last time they won anything in Australia?

The Lions won a game ,i'm sure, when they toured last, but not the series. Can't think of any other games the poms have won in the recent past downunder.

The France/England game would have been mucho better if it had not peeeed down, I agree. Still, i'd rather not have a replay of the last World Cup Final anyway so its good that the poms got up.

I too hope that the weather is good, 'cos i'm probably going into Sydney to watch the game on the big screens the organisers have put up Should be grouse

Australia to win by 1 point

chook

[Gregoshi]

Uh oh. Prepare for Rugby Total War. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Quid]

I agree with most here. Nothing more inspiring than a losing English side http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif The Wallabies are definitely stronger on the whole. The difference is the kicking. Wilko is no better in his position than any other midiocre fly half but for his kicking.

The Wallabies have not been tested so far apart from the All Blacks game. There, they performed wonders in defence but no real attacking potential (i.e. running the ball out wide). The tries scored so far prove this (apart from the Namibia game which can hardly be called a test) &#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif.

I think it will be a close game because neither team has shown great attacking potential so far. Both teams are good in defense. However, the English have shown cracks (Samoa, Wales) when the ball was spread wide after a few phases. As long as the Aussies close down Wilko and Robinson, they should come out with a win. Let us hope that we don't end up with the ping pong game we have seen against the French. England is almost unbeatable at that bacause it soley relies on destroying the game of the opponent. That has been the English game for years and years. I would love to see a re-run of the England vs. All Black game in 1995. That would teach them a lesson...hopefully. Then, they were relying on Andrews as they are now relying on Wilko (Cat). Same scenario, same score line...what a joy it would be http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif.

I reckon the game for third place is the real final (no offense). I just think that those are the teams with the most positive rugby at the moment. I would have liked to see Wales come through as well because they have definitely shown very enjoyable play...

Quid

[HopAlongBunny]

With the All Blacks out I'll be cheering for Australia.

The real question (for me) is: Will Canada ever get to the semi's?

[Quid]

Quote[/b] (HopAlongBunny @ Nov. 18 2003,10:34)]With the All Blacks out I'll be cheering for Australia.

The real question (for me) is: Will Canada ever get to the semi's?
Lol http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

The answer is...ahmm...no ?

Canada has deteriorated dramatically over the past 4 years. It just goes to show what a cut in sport subsidies can do to a 'minority sport'...It's a pity to see, actually, since I was always very happy to watch the Canadians play rugby, very unorthodox at times, but rather watchable. Let's hope the situation improves again in the future.

Quid

[Alrowan]

Australia is by far the better at attacking of the both teams, as seen vs NZ even when australia are on the defensive, they give very little ground, and often force the opponent back. Close out on wilkinson, and aussies have won.

[mystic brew]

Quote[/b] (Quokka @ Nov. 17 2003,09:22)]
Wilko is a danger, as he showed against the French. Its a pity that its possible to win a game without a try and just by kicking 3 pointers.

Ummm. Like the Aussies against the ABs? the only trys anyone scored in the semis were off mistakes...

- Mortlock with an interception
- Betsen off an ovcerthrown lineout
- Thorne off a fumble by Larkham.

I agree the games weren't thrilling, but I saw beauty in the England performance. For a purist, maybe, but England have proved time and over in the past 4 years they do play to score tries.

one performance by Oz doesn't make their WC a thrill a minute. one try against Ireland and being held 9-6 by Scotland until half time means criticising England is OK, but a shade of pot/kettle

When was the last time they [England] won anything in Australia?

July, actually England Rugby beat Australia 24-15, outscoring them 3 trys to 1.

Historically the team that has won the world cup (with the exception of the first) hasn't played the most thrilling rugby. Australia in '99 were efficient rather than brilliant, with a knack of winnning the tight games.

If you are going to criticise England, fair enough, they haven't played well so far, but don't fool yourself Australia are the representatives of the beautiful game. Both teams have excellent tactical fly halfs, and steamingly effective defences. I doubt Wilkinson will give Larkham the running seams that Spencer did, which was the source of much that was good about Austalia.

one thing I wonder about is the reactions of the teams after they won. Australia did a lap of honour, jumped into the crowd, England nodded their heads, job done, onto the final. I wonder how many Aussies, after the ABs had beaten them twice this year, really believed they were going to win this one. Knew they could, for sure... but not knew they would...

A quote from the French capt, Galthie, about last WC springs to mind. after the semi final, we had a week to prepare to win the WC. Australia had been preparing for two years.

I also disagree with the assertion that Australia are clearly the stronger overall team...

This is my take

Back 3.
Too close to call. Aus are better attackers on current form, but Wendell Sailor has been awful defensively at times (for some reason the Abs didn't even try to exploit that). England are potentially fantastic, but haven't played to potential yet.

Centres.
edge to Australia. Neither side has played fluently in midfield, so Mortlock's bravura effort in the semi's makes the difference. But will Tindall and Greenwood miss as many tackles as the out-of-position McDonald?

Half backs.
Edge to England. Dawson or Bracken have hassled every team they've played into frustration. vd Westhuizen, Galthie, Marshall, Stringer, and Gregan have all come to grief against this lot in the past year. Gregan and Larkham are good, but Wilkinson makes the slight difference.

Front row.
Clear edge to England. The Aussie front row is the weak point of their team, especially with Darwin out. In contrast, England have the best front row around at the moment.

Second row.
edge to England. Johnson and Kay are mightily effective, but Sharpe, especially is more dynamic with ball in hand. lineouts are going to be key. Both teams disrupted opposition ball in the semis, but neither convinced totally on their own ball. I go for England because Johnson and Kay haven't lost a game together for two years. and that's a hard habit to break.

Back row.
Smith and Waugh are two of my players of the tournament, but Hill is hands down the best all round player in the England team, and his return is key. Dallaglio hasn't played well all tournament, but he is such a physical and emotional strength he shouldn't be underestimated. Lyons has also had a stormer so far, but he was behind a dominant pack in the semis, and I think it'll be a different case in the final.
Too fine to call.

it's going to be a great game, I think. The unrelenting ferocity is going to be frightening.

But I think england will squeeze this one.

They have the intangibles and the best Captain in the world game. Johnson's presence is such a factor, while Gregan has not been the leader that Eales was.

good luck to both teams, and fingers crossed.

[lanky316]

I agree with everything MB just said. Remember the last game the Aussie press rambled about how dull we were after just edging past he all balcks the week earlier. England in turn retaliated by completely whiping the floor with the Aussies on home turf. At the end of the day in a close game you take every opportunity you can and Wilkinson wouldn't be as effective if it wasn't for a) good positions that create drop goal attempts and b) other teams being pressured into giving him kickable attempts from penalties.

[mystic brew]

the drop goal thing is psychological as much as anything else.

In the 1/4 final you saw Wales playing their hearts out. They had just put major pressure on England and nearly scored. but come away with nothing. england escape from danger and drive up, score a drop goal. That's a 10 point swing.

I would have thought Wales must have looked up at the scoreboard and wondered how the hell that happened.

Accumulation kills...

[Ikken Hisatsu]

Im going for England to win (and not just because I dont like those australian sheep shaggers http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif)

Seriously though, after that brutal game with the all blacks, I dont think aussie is going to be 100%, or even close to it. did you see the injury count?

And the game against the all blacks was because the AB's had a truly terrible game. I couldnt believe it was even the AB's playing. continually trying the same tactics that obviously were not working, poor handling, no possession (the stats at half time were 78% aussie possession, ffs) and below average kicking (god if only we had mehrtens and his magic foot)
A sad day for NZ rugby, even sadder day for john mitchell when he gets back and is lynch mobbed (rugby is HUGE over here, like how football is in england)

[HopAlongBunny]

Quote[/b] (quid @ Nov. 18 2003,03:52)]The answer is...ahmm...no ?

Canada has deteriorated dramatically over the past 4 years. It just goes to show what a cut in sport subsidies can do to a 'minority sport'...It's a pity to see, actually, since I was always very happy to watch the Canadians play rugby, very unorthodox at times, but rather watchable. Let's hope the situation improves again in the future.

Quid
hehehe

Thanks Quid http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I think a person has to hold onto at least one impossible dream in life http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Quid]

Quote[/b] (HopAlongBunny @ Nov. 19 2003,06:00)]Thanks Quid http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I think a person has to hold onto at least one impossible dream in life http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
True enough HopAlongBunny, I couldn't agree more...damn Germans... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Quid

[Taillefer]

Well said Mystic.

''Morale is 80% of the battle''
After Wilcos first Drop, those Sh/Sh heads will drop/roll.

If he is'nt nobbled and our game plan spied upon
Well then we can blame the weather, lack of sportsmanship -
you know .....LOL.

Taillefer.

[mystic brew]

Quote[/b] (Ikken Hisatsu @ Nov. 18 2003,13:33)]And the game against the all blacks was because the AB's had a truly terrible game. I couldnt believe it was even the AB's playing. continually trying the same tactics that obviously were not working, poor handling, no possession (the stats at half time were 78% aussie possession, ffs) and below average kicking
I was pretty neutral, but watching that game I was screaming at the ABs to show some nous. Thorne deserves a lot of the blame for not being able to improvise a gameplan.

But I don't think the ABs played badly by themselves - I don't think the situation in itself got to them, it was that they weren't allowed to impose their style on Australia. They were pressured so relentlessly by the Aussies that they had a shocker tactically.

If the past few years has taught me (an England fan) anything, it's that one-trick ponies always get beaten when it matters.
Every time someone sells themselves body and soul to any particular scheme it causes problems. England came a cropper several years running, and NZ have done it again. I appreciate that the NZ philosophy is run and make the most of Rocococko and Howlett, but when Muliania and Spencer can't kick at all, there is surely a problem. easier said than done, but when you know what's coming you can stop it.

I observed time and again the Aussie defenders coming in aggressively from the outside lanes to compress the AB midfield space, giving Spencer food for thought after that intercept. Diagonal weighted kicks, grubbers or chips woulc have disrupted that pattern. Why didn't Thorne or Marshall or Spencer try these things?

I was befuddled...

And I don't think they should ditch John Mitchell. He's done sooooo much right.

[King John II]

Every English player is expecting to win.

Which is going to make them very difficult to beat.

Australia will have to score first and play the more disciplined game to have a chance. Which I doubt they can do.

Home advantage is usually a huge boost in things like this. But Australia ruled the roost over everyone except the All Blacks and (occasionally) the S.Africans for so long that I suspect this time the emotions in the crowd may, depending how it is going, actually put Australia at a disadvantage.

[Taillefer]

' England expects...'

.... that the weather will do the trick - knew all that drum beating would act as a ' Rain-Maker'

Taillefer.

[Sigurd]

I'll be chearing for the wallabies shortly... and hope I placed my money on the right team.

[Alrowan]

its not looking good for us aussies at half time, but i musnt give up hope

[Alrowan]

nooooooooooooooooooooooooo

20-17

last 30 seccond of extra time http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif:(:(:(:(:(

[Taillefer]

Yeeeeees

Good game Aussies.

Off to celebrate - offline for a couple of daysh (sic)

Taillefer. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Divine Wind]

Another thing for the aussies to whinge about http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[chookmustard]

Hi all

Well done to the English team...that was one of the best games i've seen for a long time Still nursing a major headache after going into the city last night to watch the game

England deserves all praise after that effort..I didn't even mind that my beloved wallabies lost 'Bout time you northerners took the cup http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

cheers