'' Just for button - bashers ? ''

[Taillefer]

A m8 looked over my shoulder when playing MTW and said - '' nice Arcade game
My button-bashing brats would like that He He. ''

OK it was a wind up - I like NFL, NHL, FIFA. (Also &#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
I hasten to add NOT my view - see my post '' Repent ...''

But what do you think ? Fast fingers and a fast brain - is that all there is to it ?

What else, if anything, do you bring to the game ?

Taillefer.

The Phantom Knight. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Kongamato]

Fast fingers and a fast brain help, but the understanding of what makes an army rout and the application of this through unit selection, deployment and manoeuvre is what really counts... and is also popularly defined as tactics.

Now, this m8 of yours... Did he/she think there was some higher game with more tactical content in mind, like, say, Barbie's Malibu Adventure, or whatever else they may have bought for their button-bashing brats last Christmas? Or, did they actually have experience enough to provide an educated opinion?

These button-bashing brats who seek only a quick fix from their games wind up getting chewed up and spit out when they play MTW MP. Unless they have a genuine interest in learning the tactics of the game, which reflect real life tactics, these people are never seen again after their first one or two games.

[Brutal DLX]

Konga said it all.

[Kekvit Irae]

MTW is far more tactical than button-bashing. If you want to satisfy a button-basher with a historical game, get Dynasty Warriors 4 for the PS2 and hope for the best

[Gregoshi]

Yes, you need to think but you also need to be able to execute your orders - something I can't do. My MP battles usually start out pretty good and I seem to have an advantage, but I fail in the ability to follow through on the advantages my initial assault has given me. You can be beaten in many ways in MTW MP and fast clicking isn't enough.

[Taillefer]

Greg, I was just trying to provoke an discussion here - I actualy think there is much, much more involved -
see my laudatory post - ' Repent...'

The serious question is 'What else do you bring to the game ? '

I mean some of the following might count. particularly in MP :-

1. Knowing the strengths and weaknesses of units from the factions .
2. Building and practising with a batch of team units of varying balance.
3. Drilling so you can move the formations instinctively.
4. Quickly, ingame, assessing 1. (above) and reading the lie of the land.
5. Reading the flow of the game - taking an overview.
6. Choosing the ' moment/s of truth ' to achieve a rout.
7. Practise, practise, practise.

I am sure this is a poor starter list, but would be glad to hear others views.
Feel free to brag a little - I'm on a learning curve here,

Taillefer. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[ichi]

What Kongamoto said (and quite well, I might add)

ichi

[Taillefer]

I 'itch ' to hear more - there must be more to it

Konga states only what is also required in Madden and though I like that game - its mainly button -bashing.

Oh well time for a pint.

Taillefer.

[Kongamato]

A common mistake of the outsider is that they look at the clicks and not at the clicker. I may be sending a lesser half of my line forward in order to open a gap in the enemy frontline so that a wedge of cavalry can charge through, re-form into a wide line, and charge into the enemy rear, but unfortunately the outsider sees only clicking. I am clicking, but clicking is only the method I use to apply my tactics. Without some thought involved, random clicking would not do anything.

And as far as Madden goes, I'm not sure about how much tactics are involved as I've never played it. However, if it is a good game, it will reflect the kinds of tactics used on the gridiron, like play calling and reading defenses. Now, there is going to be a skill element to all games, where the fast fingers and the fast brain are involved, and I can see that in Madden, the well-timed deep pass to Derrick Mason and the following dodges and spin-moves will all be products of button-tapping skills. Hopefully, the game will have presented you with a challenging, worthy opposition that you can use proper play selection and audibles(tactics&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif against to set up the long bomb.

Sadly, many just see the clicking, and this is somewhat exasperating. I'm not going to go write a term paper or enter a martial arts tournament to display my knowledge of tactics to them, as it is not going to be worth the effort. They'll just have to make do with the one finger that I give them.

[Taillefer]

Nice post - pity about your sore finger Too much button bashing ?

Agree with much of what you say, and feel that this game has much in common with Madden.
Its not a question of ' higher ' games but of the importance of dexterity given all else that
goes into winning MP VI.

Surely the ' rush' for example, demonstrates that when faced with possible overload, the
person, of equal tactical ability and facility for fast cognitive reaction, who possesses the greater
dexterity will best be able to exploit or create opportunities. That is not to demean that skill but to
give due weight to its value. But what effect is that having on the game ?

Some people may feel that as this skill appears to have become more prevalent it may have
diminished the relative importance of other skills which may have led to an overall deterioration
in the quality of MP games.

Software companys naturaly seek maximum market penetration with the pressure to broaden the
appeal of their product and maximise profits by feeding the insatiable desire for the ' new.'
Much has been gained with MTW/VI but there is concern about the state of MP. Lets hope that
CA can add back into RTW elements that many miss from STW.

Taillefer.

England expects....

PS. The coarse one asks me to convey his Longbowers salute to you. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Brutal DLX]

What exactly are you trying to say?
You don't like rushes in MP?

Let me tell you that now that swiping is gone, there are no real exploits left in the game. The rush is a valid tactic, and can be defended against. Of course fast clicking helps since there is no pause, but by no means it's the only thing you will need. You still have to know where and when to click, which starts at the unit purchase screen and ends on the flanks of your army. The more aware and quick thinking general usually wins, and not the one clicking the most.
And that's a good thing.

[Taillefer]

Rushing is a valid tactic, and was merely taken as one example of a potential overload situation
where the dexterous may prevail, given all other factors are equal.

A well timed rush is a joy to see - where the opponent is regrouping or manouvering
or later assessing the 'moment of truth' when you gauge that the time is right for an all-out push.
I'm not saying that a well coordinated all out initial rush with flanking, diversions ,skirmishing,
line breaks isnt a demonstration of skill -But, what do we see it on the replays.........

Premature (?) opening Sumo charge rushes . Are they skilfull, are they entertaining, or are they
a cop- out with the outcome decided by unit build and fast fingers ? ' Button Bashers ' Donkey Kong
or ' Lions led by donkeys' type of play ? ' All over the top ' - charge .
No not true - persuade me that I'm seeing skill in many replays of this type of game.
Fun or just funny fast fingers ?


Taillefer. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[dwarven_eagle]

rushing in total war is one thing u don't see in other games. And it can caquse such fear on your opponent.
whats really fun is chrge with your calvery into a line of spearmen, it's so sweet to watch

[Taillefer]

Ouch dwarven - thats like picking up a bunch of old
holly leaves in your bare hands.

Whatever - you have fun.

Youre right about fear thats probably why my fingers
wont function when those guys charge - paralasis

Taillefer. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

[Gregoshi]

Hello and welcome dwarven_eagle. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Ah, the rush. barocca, my clanmate, rushed me once just for fun. I have to admit I was caught completely off guard. I just sat there like a deer in headlights watching his army steamroll over mine. If I tried to counter it I don't remember and it didn't work. It is actually quite funny to remember. I've always wondered what the expression on my face was. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif