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View Full Version : Very, very annoying....!



Parmenion
11-22-2003, 10:08
I'm the Danes (Early, Normal, GA) and the year is around 1150-ish. I have a strong base of operations in Scandinavia, and also own the territories of Saxony, Franconia and Livonia (aswell as Ireland, but that's an undeveloped province as I want it as a training ground). My longboats and Barques stretch from the Baltic to the black Sea and I had a net income of +5000 Florins per year - very nice.
I thought I would create another training ground for my young heir by attacking the rebel province of Corsica. Things were great for a few years as a big stack of peasants and militia appeared every year for 4 years whilst I was building a port. Thus my Prince went from a chinless, lazy, drunken gimp to a 4-star expert defender with several other cool virtues.
Then I get the old "Naval battle has ended..." message across about 15 ocean regions. Afterwards I discover that the Italians have attacked me for some reason, and they were previously my allies. In total, I lose 5 or 6 longboats and the Italians lose about 10 ships.
So my income drops to -1700 florins per year and my hastily dressed emissaries are sent on the fastest ships to Venice to negotiate peace.
So far there is nothing odd about this tale, we've all hear it before.....
My two 3-star emissaries negotiate peace and an alliance in the same year, yet there are still sea battles going on...? The Italians are still at war with me
The year after the same thing happens again. The emissaries successfully negotiate peace and an alliance and afterwards I'm still at war with Italy.
The 3rd year the ship attacks stop (because there are no shared ocean regions) and I continue to churn out ships to rebuild my trade empire. Cool, I think. The f*ckwit Doge has come to his senses and realised that if he doesn't stop this soon, my 9-star general and 15 units of Huscarles will be enjoying the sights and sounds of Venice and then pillage the rest of Italy.
But oh no. The very next year my 'allies' attack my shipping again (and lose) and war is declared. Then over the course of the next 15 years I remain at constant war with Italy and lose shed-loads of cash. Each year the Doge readily agrees to a ceasefire and an alliance and yet we remain at war. My emissaries are now both 5-star and speak fluent Italian, yet the idiot Doge insists on breaking the alliance every year....?
I now have no option but to advance my troops South through Swabia, Switzerland and into Italy to destroy the ports and dockyards. If I get the chance I'll also behead the backstabbing tw@t aswell
I wouldn't mind too much (this happens quite frequently when the AI thinks you are winning and wants to disrupt your trade network) but if I was to break an alliance 20+ times in succession I would have an Influence of 1, yet he still has 5 Influence....?
He hasn't even been excommunicated
The only positive side to this is that no-one else is his friend and I'm allies with all the other Catholic factions. The coolest parties are held at Stockholm castle and the Doge ain't on the guest list.

Snowhobbit
11-22-2003, 10:11
Thats an odd story, but the AI can be quite an idiot sometimes.

scudknight
11-22-2003, 10:26
Sounds like it's time to quit sending emissaries and start sending some heavy cavalry. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

ichi
11-22-2003, 21:43
Although this is a sad, common tale, you tell it very well.

Overwhelming seapower. My only answer to this insane Italian (sometimes the Sicilians go naval war crazy also) problem is to get overwhelming seapower just off the coasts of all Italian provinces. Wipe out their navy, and eliminate every newly built ship when they put to sea.

ichi

Parmenion
11-23-2003, 10:22
Okay, it took me twenty years to solve this but now the Italians no longer exist.
My troops from Franconia moved south and pillaged every province up to Venice. Then they assaulted Serbia and beseiged the castle holding the Doge and his heir. The Pope was cool with this as he had managed to get round to excommunicating him by this point. After a 3 year siege the Doge and his heir lay dead and my longboats could finally move into the central meditteranean sea ergions without fear of attack. My income rose to pre-war levels and the Danish King breathed out a sigh of relief.
Problem solved.
What I want to know is why the Italians continued to attack me and then make peace/alliances in the same year? Has anyone else encountered this and is it a known bug?

TheSilverKnight
11-24-2003, 04:18
The AI will do anything to put the balance of power back into order. Much like in the Napoleonic Wars, the other powers would punish the offender who upsets the delicate balance of power by building up their empire so much.

Brutal DLX
11-24-2003, 10:09
That's a common case of your trade network being too large. You greedy little Dane you http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
At some point the Italians or others take offense to that, also note that since it is a GA game, they get points for being the best merchants, ie. making the most money by trade, and you were not helping them. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Bevan of Hertfordshire
11-24-2003, 17:59
The balance of power comes into play when you have a large empire, i had england, germany, france spain and scandinavia and my allies went from about 5 to 0 and i suddenly found myself a few provinces short on all my former allied borders.

Dhepee
11-24-2003, 18:11
In every game that I have ever played as soon as I become a naval/trade power the Italians, regardless of alliances, attack everythnig that they can. Best advice. If you are planning to be a sea power knock the Italians out as soon as possible.

Zone
11-24-2003, 18:24
Quote[/b] ]He hasn't even been excommunicated

If you hadn't kept getting ceasefires he probably would have been. It usually seems to take the pope 2 turns of agression to tell me to stop attacking someone. If you arrange a ceasefire it probably takes it back down to 0. If you'd left it a couple of years the situation could have changed. Do you have a save of that point anywhere? If so, give it a go and let me (us) know, as it's just a theory, I'm not really sure.

Ironside
11-24-2003, 18:24
Citera[/b] (Brutal DLX @ Nov. 24 2003,03:09)]That's a common case of your trade network being too large. You greedy little Dane you http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
At some point the Italians or others take offense to that, also note that since it is a GA game, they get points for being the best merchants, ie. making the most money by trade, and you were not helping them. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Do you think that the comp actually cares about that? The Danes was earning 9k+ in trade with me and only a few years before they were going to get points for it, they attacked me. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

Parmenion
11-24-2003, 18:48
I do have a save game but alas I have no internet access at home.
This situation will soon be remedied though.
I'll post it here as soon as BT get their fingers out their @ss and install broadband.
Cheers for the help though.

Brutal DLX
11-25-2003, 11:10
Quote[/b] (Ironside @ Nov. 24 2003,17:24)]Do you think that the comp actually cares about that? The Danes was earning 9k+ in trade with me and only a few years before they were going to get points for it, they attacked me. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
Yeah, I do believe it. Granted, sometimes they mess up, but they don't totally ignore their goals. But the AI will always take offense once your fleet has become too big.

Sephiroth
11-27-2003, 14:24
Right here goes nothin. The reason the Italians constantly 'broke and re-made treaties' is when he sunk one of ur ships he was at war, your emmissary said heer we can be friends yeah and the doge says yeah why not. Personally i feel that if you constantly ask for peace tha A.I gets celver and realises our at a big disadvantage so why should it.hes attackin your ships as a sort of pre-emptive strike, i.e you will eventually woop him and as you may not have had land borders blowing away your navy makes good sense. you may also want to check things like who mayb offering him an alliance and who your already at war with. Secondly the reason your economy went into shit was because it was foolishly based on trade. Being in the positoon you were i was rakin in around 9-10000 florins because i fully developed every province's economy.Also where i could i placed effective, yet cheap to maintain troops, in low-risk provinces. Troops like crossbows, clansmen, gallowglasses and spearmen do nicely.

to avoid it in the future dont take out the italians as suggested because that will only drag you int another conflict along the line. Concentrate on dominatin key naval points, while not having loads of ships running around. have a trade route of say longboats while place squadrons of barques and cogs in key naval points.From your Danish point of view these would be, The Skaggerak sea, The north Sea, english channel, atlantic ocean, Sea of gibraltar, middle med, and the ocean around Corsica,sicily, and the Adriatic.

move ships around and let him waste ships tryin to sink you, hence you shudnt be excommunicated and he should. On that point the pope is a dope when it comes to naval war and rarely excommunicates anyway for it, cept you of course...ah well...cest la vie

Parmenion
11-27-2003, 22:22
After destroying the Italians and thinking I was doing well I lost the game due to a lack of heirs. C'est la vie indeed.

Anyhoo, I started a new game as the Spanish (Jinettes rock by the way) and quickly found myself in the same position.
The Byzantines were my friends for ages and then one year they attacked my ships in every ocean region they had ships in. I came out better than they did (because of caravels from Portugal being my main ship-of-the-line), and then proceeded to seek peace for the greater good of both our nations.
I must point out here that the year is 1280AD and the Byz are leading the race of GA by a clear 30-odd points. I am second and the other 3 big powers are a couple of points behind me. The Byz wiped the floor with the Golden Horde aswell, so they have no real competitors except for the evil French (who are at war with everybody).
The Byzantine Emperor was quick to make peace and then an alliance with my two emissaries, and then go ahead and order the attack of several of my warships, thus breaking the alliance. I understand that they are trying to hurt me by whatever means possible, either by destroying my trade network or in preparation for an attack on my homelands, but why do they keep making alliances? It surely causes a big hit on their Influenece, when they could simply stay in a state of war with me.
I own Palestine which borders their Empire, but they don't attack me there necause I have a triple stack of Uber-troops led by an 8-star general. Thus there is a land border present so it's not like he's making peace because he is unable to attack any of my provinces.

In short - STOP MAKING ALLIANCES YOU INTEND ON BREAKING YOU LYING, BACK-STABBING GIMP OF AN EMPEROR If you want a war just say so and we'll do it toe-to-toe. Sheeesh