moving units when grouped = \"marching very quickly\"

[dewey]

First things first, Hello all!!! I am a noob here but I have been avidly scouring the boards for some weeks now lapping up all the juicy info you guys have spouted since the game came out, hehe. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

I have yet to chance my arm online but I'm gearing up to it slowly (I don't like loosing hehe!!).

Anyways, my first humble question to you vets out there is this: When I group my army (or a subset etc.) and click to move they always RUN to their destination. IMO moving grouped units in formation always makes them run!! Normal click, ctrl-click etc. etc. always the same - they put their trainees on and give it some toes. Result, they always arrive tired. Now it doesn't affect me too much in SP but I expect the toll will be heavier in MP. I have not seen this mentioned in any threads either so has anybody noticed this at all? How can I prevent it?

I have a million other things to say but won't bore y'all with my first post so I'll leave it at that. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

PS: I may resurrect some of your old threads - hope you don't mind. :P

[Puzz3D]

Hi dewey, and welcome. I think you don't have the v1.02 patch for WE/MI. This marching very quickly all the time was a bug in the v1.0 and v1.01. There is also unit rebalancing in the v1.02 that changes the gameplay quite a bit from the earlier versions.

Once you have the game mechanics down, I would jump right into online play. Human players don't play like the ai, and some of the tactics that work against the ai fail online. The competion is tough, and, if you're winning 1/2 your games after a month, then you're doing quite well.

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~~

[dewey]

Ah! Well I must live up to my noobie title by asking the simple things! Thanks. But.... I tried that patch (v1.02) this weekend and it made things worse - I ended up reinstalling everything. I have normal STW with MI installed over it. After patching any battle I tried to play just froze up on me as soon as it began!

The file I downloaded was v1.02 US/European MI patch (ShogunMv1.02_Euro.exe 6,807kb) - as far as I can see that should be the right one. Hmmmm, hmmmm and thrice hmmmm!

[Gothmog]

Hi dewey San:

Your observation is quite right.

I did notice that in version 1.0.2

Indeed, when you group units, and order them to "march" (aka walk),sometimes the status will show "marching quickly" (aka run).

However, after carefully observing those units that are "marching quickly" in this fashion, I find that, actually they are not running, simply walking, for their advancing speed is just about the same as walking.

My guess is that, when you move several units as a whole group, sometimes certain unit(s) need to go extra length to maintain the formation. For instance, if you order 3 units lining up in a row to make a turn, then the outer unit has to travel further distance than the inner unit, thus that unit might have to run a bit to keep up the pace.

But all in all, no signficant consequence on neither the advancing speed or the fatigue level of the army.

What Puzz3D mentioned is bug that causes the units to charge instead of run toward enemy units once the attack order is issued. And since it's very tiring to keep yelling battle cries while berserking, your units are often exausted even before making the contact. That bug has been fixed since in 1.0.2




[This message has been edited by Gothmog (edited 02-04-2002).]

[dewey]

Hello Gothmog! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

You have a good point. It's usually a little hard to tell because I'm normally using 100% speed too (I'm impatient lol) but conversely I find that units take quite some time to become very tired/exhasted just from regular marching (even up and down dale etc.) but it does seem to happen more quickly. I agree about some units needing to quick-time in order to maintain formation - I see the sense in that. I was sure that fatigue increased more rapidly because of this but I'm more inclined to believe you than trust my noobie musings! It's probably the placebo affect since I see the double-forward arrows on the icons etc. thus thinking they are running!!!! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif.

To come back to the patch issue. If I remember correctly the version number shown in the corner of the menu screen is 1.01 (or something close). Anyway I have not patched but things seem to be fine. Crashes & freezes are few and far between so I am content atm.

Should I get it? Do I need it??? Surely it will matter online (version conflicts etc.)

[Puzz3D]

dewey,

Online play will require v1.02 since most players use that version now and different version cannot play one another. You did download the correct patch. Perhaps the tech forum could help if you post your computer specs there along with the problem.

There are three speeds associated with a unit: marching, marching quickly and marching very quickly. These correspond to walking, running and charging. There is a different fatigue rate attached to each of these three speeds. Prior to v1.02 there is a serious bug that causes units to fatigue too fast when walking. Actually, if IIRC, the units never actually walk, and are running when the indication is walking.

I know a unit can march faster or slower than commanded depending on the incline of the terrain it is crossing. Fatigue may be determined by the orginal command and not this terrain induced speed alteration, but I'm not certain of this. The charge speed cannot be invoked manually. A unit automatically goes to charge speed when in close proximity to the enemy unit it has been commanded to attack.

A problem in online battles is that lag seems to inhibit the player's ability to invoke the run speed. Units often walk at a critical point in the battle when you wanted them to run. You've got to check that a unit commanded to run is actually doing so, and reissue the command if it's not. I rarely get my entire grouped army to run. They always seem to walk even if double arrows are showing on the unit icons. I don't seem to have this problem moving smaller groups that I tend to group according to run speed.

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~~

[This message has been edited by Puzz3D (edited 02-04-2002).]

[shogunnewbie1]

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[dewey]

Ah many thanks for your detailed replies. I tested last night and it appears I am indeed propagating the newbie tradition. They do indeed walk even though the icon suggests running. Stupid the way an idea gets into your head sometimes isn't it.

Re: online play. I have only 56k so I am beginning to think it might not be an option considering the lag people mention.

I will have to try the patch again but (knowing I had the right file) I know it is now going to involve some messy tweaking and battling with my comp because it is flaky as hell with the patch (I have correct, todate drivers so I'm thinking DX8a might be involved here.)

Anyways, thanks again for the replies.

Hehe, showgunnewbie1 I am "avin a butchers" at your site now!

[shingenmitch2]

I did a test a long time ago, and I guess I'm not sure if it holds true to v1.02--- but I had a troop "march quickly" alongside a grouped bunch of the same unit "marching very quickly" there was no appreciable difference in speed.

I only ever got "marching very quickly" with "G" grouped units. Since that grouping type sux, I never use it, and consequently I almost never get "marching very quickly"

-----------------------
Yuuk, when "marching quickly" units are about to engage in combat, do they automatically get the "charge" bonus at that point?

[This message has been edited by shingenmitch2 (edited 02-08-2002).]

[Puzz3D]

dewey,

Your 56K modem will be adequate for online play. You just won't be able to host 6 or 8 player games very well. In some cases a 56K connection can do it reasonably well.

Mitch,

I believe that you have to see the attacking indication to get the charge bonus. This is very important with the cav and ND units which have very high charge values. It doesn't matter whether you single or double click the enemy unit. Your unit will still charge when it gets within the proximity range. The attacking unit also needs a relatively clear shot at the target unit. If your unit piles up on the back of another friendly unit most of your guys won't engage before the charge bonus goes away. It only lasts for a few seconds. Deep unit formations also have this problem since the guys in the back don't engage quickly enough.

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~

[This message has been edited by Puzz3D (edited 02-05-2002).]

[Gothmog]

I did something quite the opposite. I chose a unit to WALK alongside a bunch of grouped units that are "marching quickly" (all foot soldiers) and I didn't notice any significant difference.

My guess is that judged from the fatigue level, those grouped units have to be walking. Otherwise by the time they got into deployed position (I was doing it in winter), they should be quite tired.

But I could be wrong. Got to do some serious testing.

[This message has been edited by Gothmog (edited 02-05-2002).]

[longjohn2]

I fixed a problem in Medieval whereby the icons at the bottom of the screen didn't show the correct speed for units group marching. Sounds like MI may have had this problem too.
Try using the cursor text for a more accurate indication.

[Gothmog]

Thanks longjohn2 for the info.

BTW, I know this is OT, but how do you produce unlimited Hojo heirs in MI campaign?

Can the same mechnism be duplicated in normal Japanese campaigns? I think most of the players would prefer to give the AI clans more heirs than merely those "hostorical figures".

Of course, no one is expecting an official release, but if one were to edit for his/her own pleasure, how to do it?

Thanks.


Gothmog

[Target]

Unfortunately, the heirs are all hard coded into the game as individuals, each with their own birth dates, and they are limited to about six or seven per clan.

The idea being that it imposes some sense of urgency to the game - knowing there's a limit to the heirs means you can't rely on extra "lives" all the time so you have to protect what you have.

This also adds a pseudo time limit on the game because heirs will stop getting produced and the daimyos will eventually die - of old age if not by a blade or a geisha's musical instrument. This also was intended to avoid the scenario of the Sengoku Jidai period still raging when Buck Rogers turns up again in the 25th century.

As far as editing the heirs goes, the closest you could probably get is altering the names of the heirs in the text files. Unfortunately, you can't easily adjust their birth dates or increase their number because it's buried in the code.

I don't think there's an "unlimited heirs" bug/cheat in the Mongol/Hojo campaign - unless I've really missed something.

------------------
Quote MagyarKhans Cham:
i even suspect Target is coming here to hype things up.[/QUOTE]

[zakusan]

Hey Dewey, are you sure you used the right patch? Isn't the 1.02 patch for the Warlord edition, and there is some other patch for those who have STW enhanced with the mongol pack? Not sure, I have warlord--anyone else clarify this?