Wes mod

[Magraev]

I've just installed the wes mod (3.14) and started my first game as the english (early, normal). I'll just share my impressions and oppinions here, and hopefully get some feedback. Let me start by saying that I'm very impressed with the work.

First of all I like the new units (always fun). I started the game bribing wales and invading scotland (as usual). My next move was invading Ireland, where I got a nasty surprise when a charge by dartmen almost routed my army, killing many of my fine norman knights.

Next I jumped France and have pushed them out of the angevin lands into champagne and lorraine. The french armies dissapointingly primarily consisted of Urban militia (a unit I can't build at all).

After my excommed king died I sent a (huge) crusade on foot to anatolia (turkish). I managed to capture the province with my crusade that at a point numbered over 2.200 men.

When I stopped last night it was 1160 and I control the british isles, most of the former french lands, sweden and anatolia. The danes and I have huge navies everywhere. The italians look very strong too.

My comments below must be seen in the light, that I haven't come to the High period yet.

My main minuses are:
- relatively few units to build. Maybe not a huge problem, but I felt that most new buildings gave me nothing in return.
- As a sub-minus (is that a word?) the fact that you can only build troops in a select few provinces means I can't build any kind of bowman outside UK, even if I've held a province for centuries. I like the idea of homelands, but limiting my build-choices to spearmen everywhere seems a little harsh. I can't even build horsemen in wales or northumbria.
- As a new player of the mod I have no idea whatsoever if I can build welsh longbowmen in early, or what the requirements are. As a result I've build all kinds of (probably) useless buildings in wales trying to find what I now suppose is a later era unit. I can't be bothered memorizing homelands for the different kinds of english units and unit availability just to play a game. That makes it work instead of fun.
- I'm afraid my bodyguard unit will become obsolete. This means lots of the 1-man general units (retreating immediately doing more harm than good to the army). Correct me if I'm wrong.
- I like using the quick-formations to set up my troops, and hybrid units don't fit (count as archers). Minor annoyance but still.

Main plusses:
- I like the divided seas, though this is kinda problematic for the english. I'm tentatively building a med-fleet in toulouse (trying to reach anatolia), but it will take a long time. This is the only way to reinforce anatolia though, and I kinda like that idea.
- Units aren't what you expect. This could be a minus too, but I loved being surprised by the dartman charge, and even more surprised when they defeated the knights I sent to disperse them. Some tricks are a bit dirty, like the icon of the ottoman infantry clearly showing them with a bow, when in fact they have none...
- Few peasants (nuff said).

All in all a great effort, but I think I'm going to mod the mod a bit before I play again. I have to see the later eras before I decide finally.

[Satyr]

I started my first game with this new mod last night too. I started as the Aragonese and I really need to sit down and read the readme because I haven't got a clue what it takes to build units. I am at war with the Almo and thank god my knights can sack the new arab swordsmen (whatever they are called) because there are millions of them and I have crap for swordsmen from my end. I went to build a crusade but couldn't so I will have to see what's up with that too.

If you are going to play this mod, make sure and memorize the readme (or have it sitting next to you) because this is now a very different game (thankfully).

Thanks Wes

[Teutonic Knight]

why don't we merge it with this thread (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=7;t=12570;st=25)

[katar]

Quote[/b] ]why don't we merge it with this thread

naw, i like it the way it is. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[ToranagaSama]

Margrev,

Here is a quote from Wes, that perhaps you may find interesting, before *tweaking* his work:


Quote[/b] ]Also, for those new to the mod, and some of you that aren't, you "must" read the Readme and Faction descriptions texts, or else you aren't going to understand what's going on. Don't make any assumptions about "anything" based upon the original game, since practically everything has been tweaked over the course of the mod's year-long development (about six months for both the first and the VI versions).
And even for you old-timers here, I always take care to update the faction text for each release, and it is probably the best way to get caught up on the updates, aside from the initial thread posts, where I try and go over everything in detail.
At the end of the faction text is a list of all the new factions I plan to add in the next version of the mod.

I've found the most enjoyable way to play the MedMod is simply to sit back and allow yourself to be surprised. If there's something that seems not to make sense, like building a building that gives you nothing, then just post in one of Wes' threads over in the Tavern, and someone will gladly explain.

The other way, you may find more suitable is to wade through the Excel files. In them you'll not only find the stats, but what buildings are for what.

Just like when MTW came out, CA explicitly stated, you cannot play MTW as if its Shogun, the same goes for the MedMod, you cannot play as if its vanilla MTW.

Also, and importantly, all the changes, restrictions, etc., are probably EXTREMELY confusing and might appear non-sensical, unless one has been following the developement of the Mod from its early stages. I've been following the MedMod from day one, and Wes has lost me at least twice. In fact, I was totally against the idea/implementation of *Homelands*, and pretty much gave up on the mod; but then he released it, and all I can say is the man knows what he's doing.

One of Wes's intentions is to make each faction as unique as possible with its own individual character based upon as historical accuracy. You're looking for horsemen in Wales and Northumbria? Perhaps you can't train them because, historically, they weren't horsemen. I do believe this is correct. As far as bowmen, what do you mean? Longbows? I believe, unless you bring your longbows with you from England you won't find any anywhere else. Though, if I recall one of the Nordic factions has a version. There's lots of situationas like this. If you want/need to know about them before hand then you'll have to pour over those files and the readme.

Good Luck http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Have Fun

[shand994]

Quote[/b] (Magraev @ Nov. 25 2003,04:45)]- As a new player of the mod I have no idea whatsoever if I can build welsh longbowmen in early, or what the requirements are. As a result I've build all kinds of (probably) useless buildings in wales trying to find what I now suppose is a later era unit. I can't be bothered memorizing homelands for the different kinds of english units and unit availability just to play a game. That makes it work instead of fun.
- I like using the quick-formations to set up my troops, and hybrid units don't fit (count as archers). Minor annoyance but still.
Perhaps these points are whats bugging you. You dont like getting into the details and the details is what the medmod is about. If youve been following from the start as has been pointed out, that is what the medmod is about. its to give u a completely new experience.
You should for example use your imagination when playing battles when setting up your formations instead of just doing the easy thing and going for the standard ones the game gives you, which in my opinion suck.
so i say stick with it and try to read through all the files and maybe youll start to enjoy it more

[Magraev]

Well thanks for the comments everyone. I must agree with most of your comments, but even though I'm told to memorize the txt-files that doesn't mean I'm going to do it... I've followed the approach of allowing myself to be surprised.

I've now played the english to 1240 and the high age gave me a few surprises. I found the welsh longbowmen (hoping the british come in late) and I can now build nothing but ships and agents in 3/4 of my provinces. I grabbed the holy land and I'm now building some of the special units there - great fun. Christian revolts and reappearances seem very tough in this game - loads of templars, foot-knights and sergeants.

About bows - they can apparently only be built in the south of the british isles. And yes - hybrids force me to abandon my custom formations, it's an annoyance, but hardly brain-surgery, to place the units one....by....one.

I won't say that the wes mod is better or worse than the original game. It's different and that's fine for a change. I just think that the original programmers might have had some good ideas too.

[WesW]

I don't think that you have to memorize anything, but you do need to know some specifics. You do need to take some time and make a careful pass over the Readme, Faction descriptions and Unit notes, just like you would have gone over the game manual when you first got MTW. You won't memorize them, but you should retain enough to recognize things when you see them in the game.
Once you figure out which faction you want to play as, you need to find that faction in the faction descriptions doc and refer to it as needed. Remember that you can hit the windows button to minimize the game if you need to sneak a peak while playing. I have pasted the current description for the English at the bottom of this post, and I hope you see that it answers most all of the questions Magreave raised earlier.
I have developed a system in the Excel spreadsheet so that you can find out virtually anything you want, but it does take some effort. I spent a lot of time and effort trying to find a simpler way of displaying this data, and this was the best I could come up with.
I am currently working with a couple of guys to try and get a sheet set up that will automatically create a Unit Stats page for each faction, but it's probably going to be very difficult if it can be done at all.

I forget the building requirements myself, and what I do is use the faction description to know what units are available in what era, and where, and after that I try and use common sense.
For Longbows, for example, you need to remember that they are only available in Wales and the two provinces bordering it; Mercia and Wessex.
Next, since Longbows are more powerful than plain Bows, it would make sense that they require a higher level of bow-maker. Therefore find the bow-shop in the building list and see what it says when you click on it. It should tell you that it and a swordsmith will give you access to Longbowmen.

The English have more restrictions on their units than any other faction, and one of the reasons is because they are one of the most popular factions, and these restrictions help add additional re-play value to the English.


English
The English forces gradually evolve in response to the superior heavy cavalry forces of their primary rival, the French. To this end, they develop potent archer units as the period progresses. In addition, they get an early, unarmoured form of Halbardiers in the Billman unit, and maintain adequate knights from Wessex and their French possessions. Their native spear units are quite poor, however, so care must be taken with both army composition and placement on the battlefield.
In addition, most English units are restricted to only a few provinces, so care must be taken when deciding which buildings to construct.
The Longbowmen class can only be obtained in Wales and the two provinces bordering it; Mercia and Wessex.
English knights can only be built in Wessex and their continental Homeland provinces.
Claymores and Gallowglaich can only be found in Northumbria and Scotland.
The English, as well as the French, can also obtain Scottish Highlanders and/or Pikemen, with Highlanders available in all eras while Pikemen arrive in the High era. Though the Pikemen are of poorer quality than the units that developed later, they, like Billmen, can be an advantage in the High era, and may be the only option available to the English in the Late era. In addition, Irish Dartmen and Bonnachts (MM v2.04 stats) may be bought as buildable mercenaries on their home island.

Early-
Norman Knights- Feudal Kns. w/+1 att.; bonus in Normandy (BG)
Norman Sgts.- Mtd. Sgts.
Claymores- available in Northumbria and Scotland; early only- unarmoured Gallowglaich
Longbowmen
Fyrdmen- Feudal Sgts.

Highland Clansmen- Scotland only; bonus in Scotland
Bonnachts- Irish buildable mercenaries; Ireland only; bonus in Ireland
Irish Dartmen- Irish buildable mercenaries; Ireland only

High-
Muntators- Sp. Jinetes
Welsh Longbows- Arm. Longbowmen; bonus in Wales
Billmen- unarmoured Halbardiers; bonus in Mercia
Gallowglaich- available in Northumbria and Scotland; bonus in Northumbria.

Scottish Pikemen- Pikes w/ -1 valour

Late-
Kns of Gascon- Chiv. Kns.; bonus in Aquitaine (BG)
Hobilars- Sp. Jinetes w/ +1 valour; Ireland only
Eng Longbowmen- Arm. Welsh Longbows; bonus in Wessex

Flemish Pikemen- Swiss Armoured Pikemen; bonus in Flanders

[Magraev]

Thanks for the reply Wes http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

The overview you gave makes it seem so simple. I've played some more since last I commented in this thread, and I must say the mod grows on me. It refreshes the game and gives new experiences after having seen (almost) all with the standard game.

After achieving a 60% victory with the english I've moved over to the byzantines and I'm very impressed They are a huge challenge, but with great (and expensive) units. I like the outnumbered battles against the turks, even though at this stage I'm not sure I'm going to win.

I just had to get used to the fact, that some troops are only available somewhere and I'll do fine. Checking the files for units and their requirements as I go is nescesary (arg sp?) too, at least the first time with a faction.

[TC27]

Hiya Wes, you mod is fantastic I do trhink that you have accidently made the Danes far to powerful, they always end up as one of the 'superpower' factions is late and they have so many ships that making war on them, is economic suicede I dont know what is giving them the edge.