More bugs with VI patched...

[Kadagar_AV]

1. seabattles doesnt always get reported

2. king can die without warning (you just discover you have a new king all of a sudden).

3. menus runs slower, slowest even.

kind of irritating, anyone know what to do?

[scudknight]

I'm on my first campaign since the VI install - I originally installed over my fixed exe of TW but it was a mess. started from scratch and installs turned out fine, but I had the three problems you mentioned defragging the machine is the only thing ive done to alleviate the menu problem (dont know why it worked).

Other than that I'm kinda miffed about all the unit numbers and cost increasing - i don't need 200 peasant units which take two years to build, lol. The game seems harder on the hard setting - France tried to invade 6 years into the game, the germans pretty much saved me, and it took eight years of scottsh rebellion before I got it under control. I couldnt make them happy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[motorhead]

Quote[/b] ]1. seabattles doesnt always get reported
Never saw it with VI or patched to 2.01. Are you spacebar-ing thru events?


Quote[/b] ]2. king can die without warning (you just discover you have a new king all of a sudden).
Never happens to me.


Quote[/b] ]3. menus runs slower, slowest even.
Menus and screen changes did become slower for me from 1.1 to VI, but not unbearable


Quote[/b] ]all the unit numbers and cost increasing
Ummm...what do you mean? Unit numbers remained unchanged unless you've changed unit size on the option menu. Default = 100 men, Huge = 200 men + increased build times for larger units. Some units costs did get tweaked between 1.0 and 1.1, but nothing i've heard of in VI

[scudknight]

OK, see I thought that was a performance setting as to the representation of units on the field per actual man - my bad, I see now it makes no difference.

SIGH - I dropped an inquisitor on Brandenburg a little while ago and he disappeared I thought maybe the game would bring him back the next year but he is forever gone into the void that is brandenburg apparently. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif About an hour later I hit escape to save game and it exited to desktop - probably my fault, I frequently alt+tab to other apps runnning VI, probably made it unstable, I'm just afraid to go back into the game to see if the auto save feature kicked in at any point.

[A.Saturnus]

I can assure you it´s absolutely nothing unusual to get lost in Brandenburg.

[TheSilverKnight]

Quote[/b] (scudknight @ Nov. 29 2003,01:16)]The game seems harder on the hard setting
well, of course, because you have the difficulty set on hard

[Kristaps]

one thing which i haven't seen mentioned yet: the effect of general stars' valor points on attack and defense bonuses is screwed after the VI patch. you cannot rest assured that +1 valor will result in +1 attack and +1 defense. at times its less...

[Puzz3D]

Quote[/b] (Kristaps @ Nov. 30 2003,12:26)]one thing which i haven't seen mentioned yet: the effect of general stars' valor points on attack and defense bonuses is screwed after the VI patch. you cannot rest assured that +1 valor will result in +1 attack and +1 defense. at times its less...
Kristaps,

That one I know has always been like that. Several of us tried to figure out how it worked back in mtw v1.0, but we never really got it fully clarified.


From and old thread (the linked threads are no longer available):

hrvojej
Patron
Posts: 265
From:
Registered: Sep 2002
posted 10-17-2002 04:09 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It would be greatly appreciated, by me and, if I may say so, by the community if we could have the official answers to some old questions that have been asked several times in the past.
1) Does dread have any effect on the battlefield? If so, what is the effect?

2) Some issues have been raised long time ago in these threads:
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001666.html
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001417.html

and more recently in this thread:
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/Forum7/HTML/002865.html

The questions are (in short): What is the actual effect of the general's command rating on units' stats? Why are we seeing the inconsistencies (e.g. +/- 1) between rank and stats, valours, etc. in the f1 screen? How does all this work in general?

3) Does the old formula from Shogun for advancing in ranks still apply in MTW? In STW, we had a list of victories/losses, and could figure it out on our own, but here we don't have those. In other words, is this still correct:
Rank . Net Victories
1 . . . 1
2 . . . 2
3 . . . 4
4 . . . 8
5 . . . 16
6 . . . 32
7 . . . 64
8 . . . 128
?

4) If the original general dies, it seems that the "second in command" takes over (judging by the V&Vs of the new commander of the army). Is this true, and if so, what are the criteria for being "second in command"? Does he take over immediately on the battlefield, and does the army then get bonuses from the new general, or are the V&Vs of the old general still in effect?

The input would be much appreciated.
Thank you



longjohn2
Programmer
Posts: 154
From:UK
Registered: Nov 2000
posted 10-17-2002 06:26 PM
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1) Dread has no direct effect on the battlefield. I don't know if it has any effects on VnVs which affect the battle.
2) I think that basically you get 1 extra factor per two ranks ( or maybe 1 per rank ). Exactly how these factors are added depends on the relative rank of the two generals. I forget the exact details of how the factors are added in.
You get the general's rank as a morale bonus if nearby, or half his rank if not.

3) Don't know

4) There is no concept of second in command in battles. If the general dies, you have a rank 0 general for the rest of the battle. Some effects from the dead general that were due to VnVs will persist however.




hrvojej
Patron
Posts: 265
From:
Registered: Sep 2002
posted 10-17-2002 07:07 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I feel the need to speculate a bit about this now.
1) Dread might not have a direct effect, but it could still be factored in, possibly in the same way that the command ranks are, as a difference in dread ratings between generals, and added as a morale bonus/penalty.

2) This would explain my recent example, where the SAP unit was shown as a valour 3 unit, although it only had bonuses added as being valour 2 (+2 att/+2 def). The difference in ranks was 4 (my general 6*, enemy general 2*), and it all fits perfectly then (valour is shown as it would be when fighting a 0* general, but the actual bonuses depend on the difference) Also, the +1 to attack only that Arkatreides and Puzz were talking about could be from the the difference being an odd number. The morale bonuses from ranks are variable, i.e. situation dependant, and therefore not shown in the f1 screen, in the same way that other situation dependant morale bonuses are not shown either. But they do exist.

3) Still the most reliable way to think about this would probably be the Shogun formula.

4) The reinforcements will get no bonuses to attack/defense and no morale bonuses stemming from general's rank, but they still might have bonuses that are due to the dead general's V&Vs, for example bonuses to morale, which is why I sometimes see the reinforcement units being more resilient than they should be. I'll have to pay attention whether the units lose the valour flags when the general routs as they do when he dies, to see whether all this holds for both cases.

[Kristaps]

Quote[/b] (Puzz3D @ Dec. 01 2003,09:37)]2) This would explain my recent example, where the SAP unit was shown as a valour 3 unit, although it only had bonuses added as being valour 2 (+2 att/+2 def). The difference in ranks was 4 (my general 6*, enemy general 2*), and it all fits perfectly then (valour is shown as it would be when fighting a 0* general, but the actual bonuses depend on the difference)
tested this theory: still diddn't add up. an 8-star byzantine general fighting against a 0-star turkish general displays attack/defense stats as if he was was a 4-star general... (i.e., pressing F1 still shows +4 valor added to all units, except the attack/defense bonus is as from +2 valor)...

the same stat display was observed when fighting a 4 star turkish general...

[hrvojej]

Quote[/b] (Kristaps @ Dec. 02 2003,16:30)]
Quote[/b] (Puzz3D @ Dec. 01 2003,09:37)]2) This would explain my recent example, where the SAP unit was shown as a valour 3 unit, although it only had bonuses added as being valour 2 (+2 att/+2 def). The difference in ranks was 4 (my general 6*, enemy general 2*), and it all fits perfectly then (valour is shown as it would be when fighting a 0* general, but the actual bonuses depend on the difference)
tested this theory: still diddn't add up. an 8-star byzantine general fighting against a 0-star turkish general displays attack/defense stats as if he was was a 4-star general... (i.e., pressing F1 still shows +4 valor added to all units, except the attack/defense bonus is as from +2 valor)...

the same stat display was observed when fighting a 4 star turkish general...
Is this for green units, i.e. units that have never seen combat before, and whose leaders have no V&Vs? Otherwise, since the valor itself is calculated on an individual basis, and then averaged for the entire unit, things can get pretty messy, and it's very hard to tell exactly how the stats are determined.

For green units, IIRC, you get +1 att for each odd rank of the general, and +1 def for each even rank, which turns into +1 valor displayed for the unit.

[Kristaps]

Yes, the troops were green whereas the general had no valor/stats affecting V&V's. Tested the same general against generals with different number of stars in the game: the same result in all situations -2 for attack and defense relative to what those should be from the valor reading on the F1 screen.

[barocca]

for every 2 ranks of your general
your units get +1 valour
thus a rank 4 general gives +2 valour,
not certain why the att/def bonuses were wrong? - must experiment some more...
B.

[Kristaps]

Quote[/b] (barocca @ Dec. 04 2003,13:38)]for every 2 ranks of your general
your units get +1 valour
thus a rank 4 general gives +2 valour,
B.
That's not the point, barocca. The valor displays right: i.e., 2 stars display +1 valor. Nevertheless, the attack/defense bonus from this +1 general stars' valor is inconsistent... Sometimes it is +1, sometimes +0.5, sometimes nothing...

[FoundationII]

I think the worst thing from 1.1 to 2.0 is the time it takes to open and close some menus.

[hrvojej]

IIRC, valor is never *explicitly* added for the unit just from the general's rank. It is only shown as such when the unit gets both +1 att and +1 def, which in turn happens for each even rank of the general. So the resulting increase in valor you observe from the general's rank is not really valor as such, but an increase in att and def he is providing simplified for the display purposes, since it effectively turns out to be the same.

I was thinking more about the leaders of the individual units and their V&Vs, if any. Those can also mess up the display.

Sorry that I can't be of more help, I stopped playing some 2 months ago. But I think we never did get to the bottom of this in the past either.

Cheers,

[hrvojej]

Ok, I actually went and did some testing - old statistical passions die hard http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif . I started Byzantines on high, normal difficulty. In Nicaea you have an emperor who has 4*, one unit with 2*, one with 1*, and naphta throwers 0* that I used for the test. I started the fight in Anatolia, always against the same 0* general. The emperor has "authoritarian" V&V, which should only give it +1 dread and nothing else.
If led by the emperor, naphtas have valor +2, but their att and def is as if they have valor 1 (only +1 att and +1 def) when compared to the situation when they are alone. They have the same stats when led by the 2* general, only they show as valor 1 unit. When led by the 1* general, they only have att +1 and no increase in def, and show as valor 0. So, for 1* and 2* generals, the stats seem to match with what I said earlier, but for 4* they don't - neither do they increase as they should, nor do they correspond to the listed valor 2. The stats also show the same pattern for the kat units of the emperor and 2* general - although they had valor 2 and valor 1 listed respectively, they both had stats as if they were valor 1 - the same. Morale always stayed the same in the f1 screen, as I understand that it's a dynamic property dependent on the distance to the general, and hence never listed in the f1 screen. But it didn't change with the listed supposed difference in valor either (which backs up what I said, that it's not really an increase in valor as such, but rather sum of att and def increase).
I also tested them against the rebel general with 4* in Greece - they were led by the 2* general, and they had the same stats as they have had against the Turkish 0* general. At that point, the game crashed (which is the reason why I stopped playing in the first place two months ago), so I didn't run any more tests, as it annoys the hell out of me when it crashes after those humonguous loading times, and my reboot also takes forever. So, in short, what I said doesn't hold (at least not above 2* from the test), but how it actually work is (still) beyond me.

Cheers,

[Brutal DLX]

I gave up long ago to check the stats in a SP campaign. The only thing that matters to me (and that still seems to work) is the morale increase you get by using a good general. The rest... shrugs.

I wonder whether one of the devs can shed a little light on this, or do a test on this of their own.

[Kristaps]

Quote[/b] (hrvojej @ Dec. 04 2003,18:00)]So, in short, what I said doesn't hold (at least not above 2* from the test), but how it actually work is (still) beyond me.
What perplexes me is that the same 4** emperor general in Anatolia at times (in other campaigns) does give +2 attack + 2 defense bonus to all units lead by him... Seems this behavior is random across campaigns or we really do not undersdand 'something' http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif