Pope Still P*ng Me Off

[R3dD0g]

I started playing the game again after several months. And the GD pope is still an a**hole.

He tells me to halt aggression against the HRE. Hell, I've been searching for the Emporer for the past 10 years, trying to offer a ceasefire. I never wanted the war in the first place, he attacked me.

So, the turn the prick of a pope orders me to leave the HRE alone, I find the dude (with an emissary, no less&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif and offer a cease fire. He refuses.

So, I stop my naval campaign against him, that's really all I'm concerned with anyway. And he immediately sinks a couple of my ships

I know that excomm isn't that big a deal. But, why am I the only one ordered to halt aggression? Why don't the pope also order the HRE to behave?

[dwarven_eagle]

It may be the diffuculty level your playing at. Because the first time I played the English got excom.

[motorhead]

From post by Eat Cold Steel:
/start
The rule for excommunications are:
If you attack the Papist you are excommunicated automatically. You will get a warning if you attack a Catholic faction who is a lot smaller than you (control about 50% less regions than you.) You can avoid actural excommuncation by not attacking or siegeing enemy castle on the second year - either assault any castles you are siegeing in the first year or redraw your troops in the second (assaulting, continue siegeing castles, attacking new regions in the second year is not allowed.) After that turn you are returned to neutral if you comply. During the 10 years time out, you are not allowed to move any of your troops onto regions belonging to the other faction - this includes region you've lost to them in the mean time and castles that are under siege (no sallying&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif So if you are not sure if you can win a defensive battle, retreat, else your troop may end up trapped in the castle.
/end

The Papacy's "aim in life" is to see Catholocism the dominant religion - but not at the cost of any Catholic Factions. Thus the Papacy works to maintain a "status quo" amongst Catholic Factions whilst promoting conquest of Orthodox and Muslim provinces.

[o_loompah_the_delayer]

The problem with complying with the pope is if you get a loyalist rebellion in any province, you will then get excommed next turn. Its best IMHO to just go and kill the other faction, you get excommed but the increase in influence balances it out (I think) and your provinces reamin loyal.

[FoundationII]

Yeah I agree with that, I once get excommunicated and the pope asks for crusades against my lands. But no factions attacked me. mainly because my influence was very high and the Pope had only very few influence.

[The_Emperor]

Always remember that Excommunications can be got rid of by either the Death of your King or the Death of the Pope

So you can either send your monarch on a suicide mission (storming that Big Castle gate single handedly), or Bump off the Pope with an Assassin (or better yet, Burn him for Heresy with a Grand Inuisitor).

Alternatively you can just plan your conquests when the Pope or your King are at a ripe old age and wait for them to kick the bucket by natural causes.

[scudknight]

Yeah I have to say that bumping him off is gonna be your best option - I got exxed by not pulling out of the hungarians last castle in the second year - didnt know about the rule. Immediate next year Spain has a crusade launched but gets to sit at the border long enough for me to assasinate the pope then distentigrate the following year and offer me a princess. Ah, politics. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[lancer63]

x-coming is not so bad if you have a healty supply of your own bishops, spies, inquisitors and assasins. They heklp keep the loyalty of the people. Plus after excommunion I feel free to do as I wish. As the HRE (second time I play the guys in black) I destroyed the dane lion when it was still young (year 1101) and thanks to the guy who advises early dane destruction. I got no x-comm. But Later the poles and italians get greedy and try and take bohemia and tyrolia. So I have to tecach them who's boss. The Pope x-comms me and I take Milan and Genoa from the Italians and Silesia and Poland from the Poles. Then my king wins his last battle and dies. Leaving his heir with a bigger empire and a clean slate with the vatican. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif
Man I love this game. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Doug-Thompson]

I also look at excommunication as a license to kill, in the rare cases when I play Catholics.

The biggest impact is on revenue. Religion's important, but most provinces will follow the leader who charges the least in taxes. So I drop the taxes and go conquer somebody's rich province to make up the difference. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif.

Mostly, though, I just play Muslims.

The only Catholic faction I really like is the Danes, because you can attack the HRE almost at will for years before you're faced with excommunicaltion.

When you finally get a warning, Vikings are good at storming castles and ending your ongoing siege. Then you use those cheap longboats to set up a thriving trade network,

Once you have plenty of income, you drop the taxes to boost loyalty, gather your huge army of cheap Vikinigs, and kill the Hungarians and Poles and tell the Pope to scream all he wants.

[el_slapper]

Life is unfair. The pope is unfair. You may try to influence him, but if it does not work, well, you can go on while excommed..... It won't prevent you from winning the game. Destroying an enemy is usually more important than avoiding excom.

[Macedon]

There are certain advances being the only excom faction. Just give it a try: a misfit among believers so the pope can kiss your a** http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Ahm...that also includes geting a crusade on your neck but that's just a little inconvinience for us warlord lunatics, right? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Anyway, the pope usually has no more than 2-3 stars and you happen to have a tavern building available so... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[gaelic cowboy]

I believe if you attack two factions and comply with the papal demand to pull back on one of them it is not noticed that you attacked another. Also if you manage to wipe out the royal line of the other faction making them rebels it doesnt matter a good assasin is essential to to this stragety also kill the pope and no more xcoms.

[Dhepee]

I like to either keep a bunch of 4 star assasins on hand to take out the pope when excommed or I will just invade the Papacy's lands and set up a "puppet pope"
The best way to get Cahtolic lands, if you are Catholic, is to wait for a faction to get excommed and Crusade against them, you don't have to Crusade but it makes the Pope like you and you get free soldiers.
The other way to go is send out spies to start revolts and then attack the rebel provinces. I always have troops on hand to go after rebels. Once a rebellion starts there is sometimes a great snowball effect so that you can grab up as much as half a faction's lands without penalty. In fact the sucker French stayed allied to me even after I started a rebellion in their lands and took every single rebel province.

[king steven]

just remember that the pope is a jackass

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/flirt.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[BDC]

Just BBQ the madman.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[Shamus]

The damnedest thing happened last night. I have never ever been able to ally myself with the pope, be I a Catholic faction or not. Then out of the blue, about ten years into a Spanish campaign, the pope sends an emissary to ask if I would be interested in an alliance. I was in complete shock. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Oaty]

Yes I have always found it beter to wait for the pope than to go hunt him down and it seems the smaller the faction you are the more likely he will send you an emmissary to offer an alliance. I think the Wesmod changed excommunications and have noticed there can be more than 1 ecommunicated faction and when I get a warning its ok if they attack me I just cant counter attack and it only seems to renew the warning when they attack me

[Hajduk]

Late in a previous game, when I had a large empire, I was excommunicated by the Pope after he broke our alliance and invaded MY territories. He then excommunicated ME for "aggression against fellow Christians." Perhaps because of the low piety of my excommunicated monarch, loyalty levels throughout my empire dropped precipitously.

Right now, I'm playing the Spanish. I control about 1/3 of the map in 1190. I'm expanding my empire in Western Europe at the expense of my fellow Christians. A series of popes have threatened to excommunicate me for these aggressions, but I have assassinated each one of them before they could carry out the threat. Term limitations by assassination. I maintain a small army of assassins, trained by a half dozen taverns or alehouses.

[Voigtkampf]

Quote[/b] (oaty @ Dec. 09 2003,22:47)]I think the Wesmod changed excommunications and have noticed there can be more than 1 ecommunicated faction and when I get a warning its ok if they attack me I just cant counter attack and it only seems to renew the warning when they attack me
Last night I was playing and the pope excommed me (HRE), the French and the Italians within a span of a dozen turns http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif Guess there is simply no order in this damn classroom http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif Or was it because I played 2.0 on hard?

BTW, I wasn't using the Wesmod, so it was either always possible to excom more than one faction or it's since VI expansion... Never paid much attention to it before, honestly.

[Jazzman]

i know when the pope dies, your excom by him dies too. but does a dead popes warning also die? e.g., pope says dont attack for 10 years or you get excomd, if that pope then dies and you attack will the new pope excom you or will you get new warning?

[Dhepee]

I think that a Pope's death cancels out the previous Pope's warnings. It would make sense anyway.
I usually ignore the Pope's warning and then just invade Rome or assasinate him.

[Jazzman]

well, the popes death might cancel it but your king's death does not. playing HRE in GA mode trying to keep nice with pope so can crusade. i retaliate against italians and take milan - clean no siege - and get warning from pope, as expected. next turn my king dies so i figure i'm free again so i take genoa the next turn and whammo, excommed the kicker, i am allied with the pope (even after excom) and the pope is at war with the italians, so i was battling his enemy and still get excom. oh well, guess i'm free now to finish off both guys with big funny hats, the doge and pope.

[Jazzman]

it gets curiouser. two turns later, after my ex-com, the italians attack the pope and the pope ex-coms them and, then, un-ex-coms me. no change in pope and no change in my king (emperor) and no notification, just all of a sudden i'm not ex-commed anymore. Never seen that before or heard that it could happen. maybe his hat's screwed on too tight.