Help!

[Duke of York]

hey all

ive just recently played through a battle in which im the English against the Alhomands, in which my crusade is outnumbered 4:1 in which im on the defensive. Ive played through it a couple of times already, however each time it seems that the Alhomand Urban Militia unit is able to chew through my chilvaric man at arms, halbreidars and order foot soldiers...they seemely have been chewed up and spit out every single time...does anyone have advice on how i can consider the first wave or mainly Almohand urab milita..with only longbowmen, chilvaric man at arms, halbreidars,order foot soldiers, templar knights and fanatics, in the province of Aragon??

Any help would be appreciated

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Paxx]

Hi there
have you tried using spears or cavalary against them? Even the mainstream of your bows?
Its very weired that they can crash your heavy infantry...

[Hetman_Koronny]

Quote[/b] (Paxx @ Dec. 01 2003,02:23)]Its very weired that they can crash your heavy infantry...
*bows*

Nothing weird here at all. AUM are among the best troops avaiable in early game. They are very hard to defeat, especially when high valor, what I suspect is the case. High valor AUM lead by a decent general with morale increasing virtues are hardly stopable.

Duke of York: have your bowmen constantly shouting at the militia, face them with your order foot soldiers (should be able to hold for a while) and try flanking them with your cavalary and CMAA. Have your guys uphill what, I think, should be possible in Aragon, don't go to woods and....

KILL THEIR GENERAL (at all cost)
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

*bows*

[rasoforos]

Is the battle in the desert? if yes then udont stand a chance if you have heavily armored units (they fall to exhausted status even if they are just standing) and the enemy has a good general. What you need to do is send some good lightly armored units down there (even plain vanilla spearmen do the job) to aid your crusade , light cavalry will help as well.

[Daevyll]

There are battles you simply cannot win, and this might be one of them http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

AUMs can be countered by lesser troops if you exploit all the tactical options the game engine gives you, but that will be nigh on impossible when outnumbered 4:1, especially since the almohads will tend to have quicker troops than you have.
Also if the enemy general is of a higher rating than you are, the valor bonuses will make things just that much harder.

Perhaps your best bet is to take a step back, and see what you can achieve on the strategic map, ie reinforce your army, get in a better general, try to split the enemy forces or even kill the enemy general (or try and give him some nasty vices with a spy).

Good luck

[Paxx]

Quote[/b] (Hetman_Koronny @ Dec. 01 2003,04:50)]
Quote[/b] (Paxx @ Dec. 01 2003,02:23)]Its very weired that they can crash your heavy infantry...
*bows*

Nothing weird here at all. AUM are among the best troops avaiable in early game.
*bows*
I didnt have much trouble with them with my Varangian Guards and Byzantine Inf. , especially on defense , thats why I'm telling that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]I didnt have much trouble with them with my Varangian Guards and Byzantine Inf. , especially on defense , thats why I'm telling that. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

You forget that BI and VG are among the best units of the game in ALL periods http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
Besides that, an high ranking enemy general will ensure high hounor for those AUM, and thats means a LOT on the battlefield... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[Hetman_Koronny]

Quote[/b] ]I didnt have much trouble with them with my Varangian Guards and Byzantine Inf. , especially on defense , thats why I'm telling that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

*bows*

No wonder http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Many people on these forums claim VG to be the best all around unit in game. I prefer JHI but there is very little doubt that Varangians handle AUM easily, just like almost any other unit [especially the Horde Heavies in the woods, chop, chop, chop... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif).
Same thing with Byz.Inf. There are among the best infantry in the game provided that they're lead by a good general who can outbalance their poor morale.

*bows*

[Cheetah]

What is the comand rating of your general and that of the opposing general?
Is this a desert battle?
How many longbows and CMAA do you have?
Do you have heavy cavalry (feudal or chivalric knights)?

Basically you have to have good general (at least 4 stars), lots of longbows (at least 6 or 7), lots of CMAA (at least 6 or 7) and a few heavy cav units. Keep your halbs and orderfoot in resererve as they are no good vs AUMs. In the reserve column put 1 or 2 light cav into the first slots and the rest of your archers into the following slots. Put halbs and OF in slots after the reserve archers.
On the battlefield group your CMAA togather, put LB in front of CMAA, heavy cavs to the flanks. When the almos advance shot AUMs but only AUMs. Dont waste ammo on enemy archers or spearmen. Try to concentrate the fire of your LB on a few AUM. Once you weakened 1 or 2 AUMs down to 30 or 40 men (even with 3 or 4 LB you should be able to do that) hit it with heavy cavs and CMAA at the same time. Try to hit flank or rear with cavs. This should take care of that AUM (unless they have jedi general). Engage rest of the AUMs with your CMAA line and flank with that CMAA and cavs that just routed the first AUM. Once LBs out of ammo withdraw them ASAP and bring in light cavs. Ideally AUMs should be running away at that time http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif so chase down routed units and withdraw badly depleted CMAA or heavy cavs. Bring in the reserve archers and deploy them to receive the second wave. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Duke of York]

thanks for all the responses....well atm its beginning to seem like this battle is nothing but a lose lose situation.....with my 6 star general against their 7 star general...would anyone advise in having a ordered retreat. having my longbowmen firing off all their rounds before withdrawing??? and would anyone be interested in playing this battle cos i think ive saved it?????

cheers

[o_loompah_the_delayer]

Lets have a look then, sounds like fun. email: mtw_loompah@yahoo.co.uk

NB: I have MTW 1.1, not VI, so if you are playing VI, dont bother cos i wont be able to play it

Thanks

[Duke of York]

soz o_loompah....its VI....

[o_loompah_the_delayer]

Oh well, the Almo general is probably a nasty fellow like the AUMs, one of my early English crusades ran into one Prince Abdullah (8*), who was alone in his unit and I thought I would kill him. But he had other ideas, single handedly killed 20 odd templars before they routed (my general only had 3*)

[CeeBod]

One thing I've always found useful against superior AI opposition, is to disrupt their lines before they reach me - I usually like to use Horse archers for that, but a unit of Knights Templar should work if you're prepared to sacrifice them -

Set up your defensive lines on a hillside somewhere, and put your disruptor unit way ahead of your lines, and to one side - what you want to do is get the enemy split from the start into 2 forces - 1 heading for your lines, and the other dealing with the nearby unit that you're trying to get round the back of them - charge it into isolated units, and then pull back, run it past the flanks and rear of nearby enemy units, stand up and drop your trousers whilst you ride past them - do absolutely anything to distract and disrupt them with that unit of cav http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Against an infantry-heavy first wave, a single unit of cav acting like that can tie up quite a few enemy units, and even if they manage to deal with you and wipe out your unit quickly, it usually prevents them from getting a properly co-ordinated attack into your front lines - AUM's are tough, but not when you can take them on piecemeal http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Cheetah]

I am definitely interested http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Please send it as a zip file cheetah_tw@freemail.hu

[Doug-Thompson]

Even if you beat AUM, they'll kill most of your troops in the process.

[Satyr]

Use horse archers to harrass them and then take them out with cav. AUM suck against cav. Don't use spears against them, AUM will chew through spears really fast, use your own sword units (feudal men at arms) to hold them and hit them in the rear with cav. Also, if you are going to be fighting in the desert a lot, upgrade your weapons but not your armor. And feudal troops are generally better than chivalric troops.

[Quokka]

I'm interested also, send a zip to "r_du_bois@hotmail.com"

[pdoan8]

Out numbered 4:1? Hope that it is not 16 vs 4.

If you have fairly large number of troops to start with, you may have a chance. With CMAA, Halb, Order Foot, LB, Templar and Fanatics, it seems to be a good mix to me.

If you can, please send me the zipped save game to pdoan8@yahoo.com

[Duke of York]

hey all

ive sent the file to you Cheetah and pdoan8.Enjoy.. Quokka your inbox is full..well anyway..a few corrections i ahave to make..the enemy general is not a 8 star monster as i said before but 1 3 star general..who happens to be the Alhomand king.and my general is 1 4 star king..anyone got any more suggestions????

[pdoan8]

Thanks for sending me the savegame.

It's really bad.

My first try: 5 LB (V3), 2 Order Foot (V2), 2 Halb (V2), 6 CMAA (including the general, V2), 1 Templar (V2) vs 11 AUM (yes, 11 AUM at V2 or more), 3 MS, 1 Arbalester and 1 GBG (the Khalifah). I expect a rush, so I deploy on a slight slope with infantry in front of the LB. 2 OF in front back by 2 Halb, then 3 line of LB (2 ranks deep). 2 CMAA on each side and 2 on the back. The Templar far away. Lead by the Khalifah, The Almohad charge immediately . I concentrate 3 LB on the Khalifah and 2 other on one unit of AUM (V5). After a short moment, I know that I can't hold when I see 1 unit of MS rout 2 of my CMAA and only lost half of their men. The Khalifah become invincible when his unit is reduced to 9 men. The AUM advance slowly as my front defensive line collapse rank after rank until they just turn around and run for their live. The battle is lost. Killed 231 enemies, lost 1089 men including the 4 stars general.

Second try: I changed the set up a little but still couldn't turn thing around. I managed to route 2 AUM, but still lost a good bunch of men.

Third try: got lucky. My left flank is cover by an impassable cliff, so I deploy 4 CMAA behind the front 2 Order Foot. 3 Halb on the right flank backing up by 1 CMAA. The Almohad formation gets disrupted as they advance up the stiff hill. The first unit to reach my defensive line is the Khalifah. I immediately surround him with 2 OF and 1 Halb. This time, I manage to kill the Khalifah but he still put up a great fight. The AUM start to chew through my CMAA again. Lost 3 CMAA, 1 Order Foot and 2 Halb. I bring in the reinforcement of 4 Fanatics, 1 Templar and 1 RK. By this time, most of my remaining units are routing. The AUM are busy chasing down my troops scattering all over the battlefield. Another lucky moment. I use all of the fresh reinforcement to pick off the lone AUM and MS unit one after another. I manage to rout the total of 5 AUM, 3 MS and 1 Arbalester before the Almohad regroup and their reinforcement start to gather up.

I regroup on top of the hill with some 300 men. Looking down the valley below, stream of Almohad troops are moving into position. The ships were destroyed. Nowhere to retreat. Let's fight for the glory of England, I said to my troops.

The most exciting 2 hours of battle I ever had.

[Cheetah]

I just had a look before I left home, but as pdoan8 noted the situation is really bad. You have only 6 CMAA facing 12 AUMs and 8 MS out of which 11 AUm and 3 MS deployed in the first wave. What is critical imho is the lack of heavy cavalry, you have only 1 knight Templar and 2 mounted.srg. This is far from enough for a battle like this. IMHO you need at least 4 heavy and 4 light cavs if not more.
I also had a look at the strategic map and found a lack of heavy troops. You have no CMAA, no heavy cavs and no xbows or arbalests (which are better for these type of war of attrition battles than longbows). IMHO you should tech up your key provinces and start producing CMAA, arbs or at least xbows and chiv knights otherwise your days will be counted.

[Cheetah]

kill: lost

1st try 760: 975
2nd try 589: 1155
3rd try 1585: 1047 http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Brutal DLX]

So I suppose you won it, and I don't need to ask for the savegame to try my hand at it. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Which is good, as I'm weary of the battlefield...

[Duke of York]

wow....and i was beginning to despair that the battle couldnt be won, and it was going to into one of those massacres in history (namely WWI), but anyway...i have to ask how did you do it Cheetah?????

[Cheetah]

Here is the story of the third battle. It is bit long but hope you will enjoy it. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I guess I got the same cliff map than pdoan8 in his 3rd battle. Anyway I deployed in the corner on a L shaped hill (cos it was in the corner) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif On the left there was a cliff, on the right there was a small forest in front of the slope of the hill. I put 2LB above the cliff and blocked the gap between the cliff and the edge of the map with the 2 orderfoot. Put 2 CMAAs in the forest, deployed the rest of the CMAAs -including the general- on the slope of the hill with 1 LB, with the Templar and with the other half-sized knight unit. These units defined an U shape. Accross this U shape, in front of the slope I deployed 2 LB and 1 mounted.srg. It looked like this:

C LL
* F
*MMMMM****

where C is the cliff with the 2 Lb and 2 OF, F is the forest with the 2 CMAA in it, MMMMM represents the main line, and LL is the 2LB with the mounted.srg (and * represent the hill). The Almos were coming from the top right corner. I think it should be obvious by now that it was a trap http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif Well, it was so obvious that the Almos discovered it as well http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif and quickly marched toward the forest. In the meantime I made some moves towards the almos with the mounted.srg as well, so that the almos give a chase. I retreated towards the cliff and withdraw the CMAAs from the forest. The LBs on the plain started to fire but had to withdraw with them as well since AUMs were approaching fast. At this time I was in full retreat with the forward troops. The almos got excited about it and gave a chase but this splitted the almo army. There were some 5 or 6 AUMs in the first part running after me and the Kaliph was lagging behind with the rest of the amry. When I reached the slope with my troops I turned back http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif hit the first AUM head-on with a CMAA and flanked it with the knight units. It routed immediately http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif Hit the rest of the first part with CMAAs head-on and flanked with the knights and mounted.srg. They were routed and slaughtered. Hardly could finish the slaughter when the second part of the almo army was on me. Quickly retreated towards the slope but the mounted.srg got stuck. Since it was quite close to the slope I turned back the second time http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif and hit the advancing AUMs head-on with CMAAs, and flanked with the templar. This time however they gave a fight, perhaps beacuse this was the bigger part and they were lead by the Kaliph himself. I quickly ordered the OF down from the cliff and flanked the almos on the left. Luckily, the Kaliph was there so I engaged it with one of the OF. In the midlle it was a bloody massacre, despite of the slaughtering of the first detachment the AUMs had numercal superiority and it begun to tell. My general's unit was fighting there and was quickly down to 3 men http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif I had no reserves, the Templars could not rout the right and the Kaliph was still alive Charged in with 1 Lb to help my general, poor LBs were dropping like flies, the Kaliph was still fighting ... Ordered two more LBs to join the HTH fighting. At last the Templars routed the rightmost AUM -by this time the templars were down to 9 men- quickly ordered them to rear attack the almo centre. By this time my general was the only men left from it's unit Flank, quickly flank Templars however had a different idea, they started to chase down the enemy xbow unit Oh no ... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif and then suddenly ...... like a magic ...... the Kaliph died, the Templars flanked the almo centre, almos were running like whipped dogs, centre was sorrounded and all the almos slaughtered to the last man ... phew http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif it was close http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Well, the almos sent in six more full waves but it was over after the Kaliph death. On each occasion the almos deployed in front of me, advanced, and just before reaching my line chain routed http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif It seems that the death of the Kaliph was a fatal blow to their morale. Only one muwahid foot gave a good fight http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif Had they gave a decent fight I would have been defeated since all my CMAAs were gone, LB had no arrows left, OF were badly depleated, cavs were no more ... I had only some fanatics and 3 full halbs but halbs a coward bastids http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif It is my luck that the almos did not know that. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif The only frustration I had is that I could not give a chase. Basically the last 3 waves auto-routed itself, there were hundreds and hundreds of almos fleeing the field and I just sat there and watched in dismay as I had no cavs to chase http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif Next time please bring more cavs http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Anyway you have to withdraw them or give them a substantial reinforcment since they wont stand the next attack.

PS. dropp me mail and I can send both the replay and the savegame.


Edit: spelling

[hoom]

I just don't get peoples' obsession with CMAA.
I almost never ever have any.

I find MS are generally better with their armour piercing and anti-cav bonus even if they are less armoured & have lower morale.
I tend to use dismounted CK for heavy infantry.

Halbs are in my experience quite stalwart defenders.

The armour piercing axe of the LB is an often overlooked factor in many battles.
I've had knight units defeated by Longbows purely in melee

11 AUM however is a nasty pill to take & I wouldn't want to try that without about 6 units of arbs...
AUM just really don't die easily.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]I just don't get peoples' obsession with CMAA.
Me neither. CMAA can't hold AUM if they are both the same honor level...



Quote[/b] ]I find MS are generally better with their armour piercing and anti-cav bonus even if they are less armoured & have lower morale.
Mounted Sargents? Armor-piercing? Anti-cav bonus? Where did you hear that? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif



Quote[/b] ]I tend to use dismounted CK for heavy infantry.

They're very good, but are only available in 20/40/60/80 men units... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif



Quote[/b] ]11 AUM however is a nasty pill to take & I wouldn't want to try that without about 6 units of arbs...
AUM just really don't die easily.
I agree. One has to be very carefull engaging them... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

[Cheetah]

Quote[/b] (arrrse @ Dec. 06 2003,06:32)]I just don't get peoples' obsession with CMAA.
I almost never ever have any.

I find MS are generally better with their armour piercing and anti-cav bonus even if they are less armoured & have lower morale..

The same valour MS has two combat points and 4 morale points less than a CMAA (against heavily armoured troops) The only advantage of MS is that it is cheaper and has less strickt building requirements. That is, you can build them early and you can build a lot.


Quote[/b] (arrrse @ Dec. 06 2003,06:32)]
I tend to use dismounted CK for heavy infantry.
I prefer mounted knights http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif if I have any that is.


Quote[/b] (arrrse @ Dec. 06 2003,06:32)]
Halbs are in my experience quite stalwart defenders.
Provided that their flanks are protected. But not against AUMs.


Quote[/b] (arrrse @ Dec. 06 2003,06:32)]
The armour piercing axe of the LB is an often overlooked factor in many battles.
I've had knight units defeated by Longbows purely in melee.
That must have been a very undernurished knight or overpowered longbow


Quote[/b] (arrrse @ Dec. 06 2003,06:32)]
11 AUM however is a nasty pill to take & I wouldn't want to try that without about 6 units of arbs...
AUM just really don't die easily.
At last we agree http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Cheetah]

Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ Dec. 06 2003,08:17)]
Me neither. CMAA can't hold AUM if they are both the same honor level...

At same valour they can hold.


Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ Dec. 06 2003,08:17)]
Mounted Sargents? Armor-piercing? Anti-cav bonus? Where did you hear that? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

MS refers to militia sergeants and not to mounted sergeanst. But they have no anti-cav bonus only armour-piercing. Of course AP works vs heavily amoured knights well, which might give the feeling that they have anti-cav bonus.

[Duke of York]

Cheetah could you plz email me the relapy and save game...
to daveshen21@hotmail.com

id like to go through in preparation for me next battle,the Alhomands seem to be gunning to for me.. this time Aqutaitne has been invaded, outnumbered 2:1, but this i ame prepared, lots and lots of royal and chivaric knights http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Brutal DLX]

As with any unit, it becomes real tough the higher it goes in valour. AUM are no exception, but CMAA are more than a match for them at equal valour. AUM are more like FMAA. The reason they are being perceived as overly tough is that you usually face them very early, at a time you cannot build similar infantry as a Catholic faction.

Halberdiers are great only if they have at least valour 3 or are built in provinces where there is a reliquiary at least. Until then, militia sarges coupled with some CMAA are a very good option.

Oh, and Duke, don't build additional royal knights, take the princes' units only, chivalric knights are a much better choice as your main heavy cavalry. And cheaper, too.

[HopAlongBunny]

Woooot

Thank you Cheetah for the stirring blow-by-blow account Doesn't get much closer (or better) than that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

Under the same circumstances, I would probably "set battle timer" ON and hide http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]MS refers to militia sergeants and not to mounted sergeanst. But they have no anti-cav bonus only armour-piercing. Of course AP works vs heavily amoured knights well, which might give the feeling that they have anti-cav bonus.
AAAHHHH http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif
That's what he was talking about...




Quote[/b] ]Halberdiers are great only if they have at least valour 3 or are built in provinces where there is a reliquiary at least. Until then, militia sarges coupled with some CMAA are a very good option.
I tend to prefer Halbardiers to Militia Sargeants in most situations, even with the moral penalty.
You just have to know how to use them to defeat the enemy, allowing them to increase honor without too many casualties.




Quote[/b] ] Oh, and Duke, don't build additional royal knights, take the princes' units only, chivalric knights are a much better choice as your main heavy cavalry. And cheaper, too.
Agreed. Chivs are great in relation to capabilities/cost/infrastructures...

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]That must have been a very undernurished knight or overpowered longbow

LOL http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[pdoan8]

Nice battle, Cheetah. After reading your battle, I went back and try it again. I was able to win in the second attempt. Probably, my best performance on the battlefield.


Quote[/b] (Brutal DLX @ Dec. 08 2003,03:27)]As with any unit, it becomes real tough the higher it goes in valour. AUM are no exception, but CMAA are more than a match for them at equal valour. AUM are more like FMAA. The reason they are being perceived as overly tough is that you usually face them very early, at a time you cannot build similar infantry as a Catholic faction.

Halberdiers are great only if they have at least valour 3 or are built in provinces where there is a reliquiary at least. Until then, militia sarges coupled with some CMAA are a very good option.


I agree. In any campaign where I will have to face the Almohad early, I will aim for MS and FMAA as soon as I can. Early in the campaign, MS and FMAA are my best infantry against AUM. In high era and later, AUM pose little threat once I have enough CMAA, FK and CK. Still, MS are very valuable for faction that have no other AP troop type other than Halb.

[Martok]

My roommate and I found a low-level unit that works against AUM: Highland Clansmen With their low cost and high attack value, they're quite effective against the the Almos heavy armor. Of course, this was only on small custom battles with a few units, so things could very well be different in the larger battles that are typical of MTW. Still, the Scots seem to work very well against them.

[Brutal DLX]

Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ Dec. 08 2003,19:01)]
Quote[/b] ]Halberdiers are great only if they have at least valour 3 or are built in provinces where there is a reliquiary at least. Until then, militia sarges coupled with some CMAA are a very good option.
I tend to prefer Halbardiers to Militia Sargeants in most situations, even with the moral penalty.
You just have to know how to use them to defeat the enemy, allowing them to increase honor without too many casualties.
That's true mostly for SP, but in MP unprepared Halbs are torn to shreds no matter how skillfully you use them, because they are expensive to upgrade and vanilla halbs WILL run quite easily.
Halbs are also quite slow and tire easily, so it's best to use them on static defence or as castle garrisons. MS are generally more easily accessible and replacable and therefor are my #1 AP choice.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]That's true mostly for SP, but in MP unprepared Halbs are torn to shreds no matter how skillfully you use them, because they are expensive to upgrade and vanilla halbs WILL run quite easily.
True, but I don't play MP... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[[DnC]]

Quote[/b] (Cheetah @ Dec. 05 2003,16:07)]PS. dropp me mail and I can send both the replay and the savegame.
I would like to see the replay Always enjoy watching someone elses battle(s) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
VI version 2.01 right?

Mail: daviddnc@hotmail.com

Thanks in advance.

[o_loompah_the_delayer]

Quote[/b] (Martok @ Dec. 10 2003,00:32)]My roommate and I found a low-level unit that works against AUM: Highland Clansmen With their low cost and high attack value, they're quite effective against the the Almos heavy armor. Of course, this was only on small custom battles with a few units, so things could very well be different in the larger battles that are typical of MTW. Still, the Scots seem to work very well against them.
Yes any super-charge units - highlanders, vikings, gallowglasses are very good against AUMs. The Scottish rebels are usually my emmisaries first stop when playing England esp as they are so cheap and need only a castle And clansmen (like vikings) give a big boost in the first 20 yrs esp before sword units are built by the other factions.

I generally also prefer halbs to MS, in fact I rarely build MS at all as 9 time out of 10 in my battles they have routed. Though reading your comments perhaps I am using them wrong? I usually have them on the flanks and then charge them into enemy cavalry.

[Cheetah]

Quote[/b] (o_loompah @ Dec. 10 2003,11:09)]
I generally also prefer halbs to MS, in fact I rarely build MS at all as 9 time out of 10 in my battles they have routed. Though reading your comments perhaps I am using them wrong? I usually have them on the flanks and then charge them into enemy cavalry.

Yes, you are using them in the wrong way. MS are not anti-cav unit Yes, they have armour-piercing bonus but they are vulnerable to the cav charge. Besides just as halbs they have low morale. The reason why they are prefered troops in MP is that they are cheap to upgrade, much cheaper than halbs. In the light of their drawbacks you should use them in the centre of your foramtion, protect their flanks, protect them vs cav charge and they will deliver. Use them against cavs only if the cavs are already pinned down and your flank is safe.

[[DnC]]

Cheetah,

If you haven't recieved my reply to your e-mail;
Thanks for the replay

Was a nice battle and the AUM were plentyful indeed
Your general put up an excellent fight though.

[Duke of York]

hey Cheetah...um ive havent received those replays yet...um maybe cos my junk mail filter is set to maximiun....i absolutely hate spam....so could you sendit to davechen21@yahoo.com instead? thanks for all your troubles, and if you cant that ok

cheers

[Cheetah]

Duke, it might a simple mistyping. You first gave your e-mail addy as:

daveshen21@yahoo.com

This time I have sent it to davechen21@yahoo.com

Hope you have received it.

[Cheetah]

DnC thx http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I have received your reply.

[-Amon-]

Hmm..i am interested...

could you send me a zip file Duke of York (balthazarsfist@hotmail.com

[Simovek]

Any chance someone could send me the replay at BoBoBoB125@comcast.net?

Thanks

[Revenant69]

Hey, Duke of York, anychance you could send me a zipped savegame - i would like to give it a try - sounds really challenging. My email addy is xRevenant69x@hotmail.com

Also, Cheetah, I'd like to get the replay as I enjoy watching and learning from peoples play styles.

Cheers to you all.
Rev http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/handball.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/santa.gif

PS God I love those new emoticons, this one http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/handball.gif is my favorite

[Duke of York]

hey all..been a while since i visited this topic..for all those who want save games/replays...cant really help you..my computer got hit by a virus and i had to wipe everything off my computer..maybe Cheetah can help you?

sorry all...but Chettah..i had a look at that replay, a truly stunning battle

sorry i cant help..anyway everyone have merry christmas and happy new year


cheers
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif