gallowglasses vs highlanders

[Ikken Hisatsu]

I cant help but notice that gallowglasses and Highlanders seem to be pretty much the same- I was just wondering what one is considered to be the best. also, desert archers vs normal archers- do desert archers suffer a penalty in cool climates?

and finally, gunpowder units- are they worth the bother? I remember that the ashigaru from STW were fairly crap, are they any better in MTW (I have played nearly every faction, just never gotten past the second age)

[Teutonic Knight]

1. Gallowglasses, definitly kick @ss

2. go with desert archers, there's no penalty in lush environments and they don't suffer nearly as much in deserts (obviously http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif )

3. nah, I don't really bother, just go with pavise arbalesters and you'll be just fine...

[Cebei]

1-Gallowglasses seem to have slight armor so I guess they will win.

By the way can an Irish tell us more about the Gallowglasses in detail? I know nothing about the real world Gallowglasses.

2-Desert archers are faster

3-Gunpowders are not effective at high range, but they massacre people when you use them from lower distance. Order your gunners to wait until enemy is real close, then fire a devastating salvo. They mostly kill all of the first line.

[Foreign Devil]

I was playing as the english while visiting my grandmother, who grew up in Ireland, and I pointed out my gallowglasses and my kearns. She had heard of them before, but didn't really know anything about them. I have an uncle who grew up in Ireland, I could try asking him... (my mom's side of the family is all Irish)

[Suppiluliumas]

Gallowglasses (gall-oglaigh = foreign warriors) were scottish mercenaries who fought in Ireland beginning in the mid thirteenth century.

Kerns were native Irish brigands, first mentioned in the late twelfth century.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

For those interested:

History of the Gallowglass (http://www.cisl.ie/mars/rory/gallowglass.htm)

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[pdoan8]

- Besides the slight armour, Gallow have high irriesistible charge and AP weapon.

- Desert Archer also have better charge and small shield.

- I usually won't bother with gunpowder infantry. However, if I have extra money to spend and a province with good upgrade (both weapon and armour), I will produce some hand gunner and use them as suicide front line skirmish.

[Oaty]

Gallowglasses are definately better because as far as highlanders go there can only be one http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Cazbol]

Gallowglasses really seem like they should be stronger than highlanders but in my current Irish campaign they aren't doing too well against them. Then again, there may be some differences in valour and I'm playing on expert which gives the AI's higlanders a bonus.

I've said it before and I'll say it again; gunpowder units are great if you use them correctly. If you expect them to be beefed up arbalesters with the added bonus of cool sounds and some smoke then you'll be disappointed. They're not supposed to massacre the enemy quickly. Their function is to demoralise the enemy and that counts for something in a game like MTW. A unit that gets hit by a salvo from guns suffers an extreme morale penalty for a short time, even if the salvo caused very few casualties. If the unit takes additional caualties during those few seconds it will almost certainly rout at once unless the unit has exceptionally high morale. I therefore like to have one unit of arquebusiers together with my arbalesters. If the arbalesters hit an enemy unit which has recently been hit by the guns then we can wave goodbye to it without having engaged it in melee. Handgunners should be put on engage at will and sent around the back of an already engaged enemy. Shoot them in the back and they'll rout straight though you. You may also want to try the arquebusiers in bridge battles.

[Nowake]

Gallowglasses are better, if the clansmen have no armour upgrades.

[Brutal DLX]

Gallowglasses are better, but in the SP campaign you can get Highlanders with less requirements and they are cheaper too.

I didn't look at the stats, but from my experience I find desert archers to be better in nearly all aspects to normal archers. They seem to have a slightly better accuracy and lethality.

Gunpowder units are fun, and useful too if you employ them like Cazbol described. Handgunners can work like MAA with the added fear factor from gunpowder, if you build them in provinces that give morale bonus from monasteries/reliquiaries and combine depleted units so they rise in valour.
Arqs are not that strong in this regard, but they are better at the fire support. So, gunpowder units are not essential, but if you use them right you will have a slight edge over an enemy that doesn't use them.

[Game Over!!!]

Cazbol is absolutely right about the morale penalty concerning units hit by rifles. Even if just 1 man is hit by rifle unit the unit suffers a -6 morale penalty.

In my experiences gallows are far better than clansmen...all things being equal. Although gallows and clansmen are great for desert warfare for Catholic factions. They won't suffer the armor penalty for fighting in desert climate as long as you don't upgrade their armor.

[Alexios I Comnenos]

Desert Archers are faster and they have a small shield, however Trebizond Archers are better,(to me) second only to the english longbows.

[ROCKHAMMER]

Gallows are better man for man and are more handy in all parts of the campaign where the Highlanders are cheaper and more useful in the early part of the campaign but begin to be outclassed later in the game. Gallows also receive an armor piercing bonus where the Highlanders do not.. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[Cruelsader]

1. Highlanders v Gallowglasses

Attack 5 v 5 but gallowglassess get armor piercing
Charge 6 v 8
Defence -3+1 shield v 0
Armor 1 +1 shiled v 2
Morale 0 v 0 Both are uncontrolled but gallowgalsses are also elite

Thus gallowgalsses are clearly better. However, highlanders are fast while gallowgalsses' speed is normal. Highlanders cost 100 florins to train, gallowgalsses cost 150. Also you need only a fort to produce highlanders while you need swordsmith for gallowglasses.

However, I think gallowgalsses are still better.

2. Archers v Desert archers

Desert archers have slightly better defence, armor and moral. More importantly though the desert archers are fast

I haven't chekced the files myself. The above is based on information from this site http://shogun.cafe24.com/medieval/, which has mostly correct information.

3. I have only dabbled with gunpowder units. They seem pretty useless combatwise but their revolving and the noise they make are fun http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[Fianóglach]

the word Gall in Gaelic is one of those words that means hundreds of things. For instance in modern Gaelic 'Gall' aswell as meaning Foreigner, also can be used to describe an Englishman. And in the names of certain Irish and Scottish Cities, such as Galway, Ireland (where I'm from) means 'home of strangers', Galloway in Scotland means 'strangers region', and the Western Islands or 'Innes Gall' means 'island of stangers'

[dunnichen]

Happy new year

Something has been already said about the real galloglass. Let me add the little bit which I know about it. Every source available to me seems to agree that the name means foreign warrior or foreign young warrior. Originally they came from the Hebrides but later on they were native Irish as well. Galloglass fought as heavy infantrymen and were mostly armed with big axes. They wore helmets and some kind of armour, mail or/and soft armour.

The name kern is an anglicised version of a Gaelic word for a warrior organised in a war band, for example the fianna in dark age Ireland. Allegedly the word for kern is ceathernach or ceitheirn in Gaelic. In my Gaelic Dictionary I can find neither of it (The Irish to the front).
I don't think that kern were brigands although the English who invaded Ireland may have named them in this manner. Instead they were peasants but also professional warriors who formed the bulk of the Irish armies. They were lightly armed with javelins, swords and small shields and didn't wear armour.

Some interesting informations and an image of these Gaelic warriors one can get from MAA 256 The Irish Wars 1485-1603 or Celtic Warriors by Tim Newark. It is apparent that galloglass and kern looked quite different as they are depicted in MTW. (Unfortunately I haven't yet been in Ireland, but is it normally not a bit too cold to go with bare legs and feet as the ancient Irish did? Tough guys)

To my opinion galloglass in MTW should have better honour bonus, because in history they often fought to the bitter end. I have changed this in the crusader-unit-prod.

I try to avoid to fight prior to the late period. So who needs archers?

I like arquebusiers in MTW. I totally agree with Cazbol. They help me to solve the biggest problem in MTW battleing: I use them with priority to deter the annoying reserve enemy units in huge battles. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Knight_Yellow]

Quote[/b] (oaty @ Dec. 10 2003,06:11)]Gallowglasses are definately better because as far as highlanders go there can only be one http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

i just bought that on dvd like 3 days ago.


HIGHLANDER

[Voigtkampf]

Higher valor gunpowder units can really be useful in M:TW, I especially like the handgunners who can stand their ground in melee for a good while… But they never really get to rule, IMHO.

[chris]

Are we talking about VI or MTW? While I was the English in MTW, I trained truckloads of gallowglasses. I don't know if there is any difference in VI, I havent used them too much in that one(as much as I have they really stink) but in MTW i have thrown some gallows into some royal knights and they ripped the knights apart.......my leading army was from then on, gallows.....fast powerful......i loved them. Any army i met from Ireland to Egypt, my gallows were on the front ripping them apart.....except for the almohads, they tended to use clavary alot, so i used clavary to counter it.....but gallows other than that issue.



Celtic Warriors vs clansmen?