Jinettes

[Shamus]

This is more a rant than anything else. For the first time I came up against armies consisting largely of Spanish Jinettes. I have come across this type of unit before, but only in small numbers, and usually when I was defending a territory. This time I was trying to take over the Spanish as the Almos. They had three territories, and so I had one army for each. Each territory held by the Spanish had at least 3 units of Jinettes, one having 6.

My real problems began when I attacked the territory with 6 units of Jinettes. I had more than enough strength to handle them, but was initially unprepared to deal with the chicken-sh*t tactics they employed. I’ve dealt with mounted archers before, so I had no trouble in using flanking maneuvers on each individual unit of Jinettes. This went well at first, until the rest of them decided that they were going to avoid me all together. I couldn’t get a unit within a few hundred yards of them before they would start to run in another direction. I eventually managed to pin most of them in a corner, and slowly tightened the noose. Meanwhile, I had other mounted units chasing the stragglers around the battlefield. I didn’t have time to flank each and every unit, as those individuals who would escape, eventually turned around and came back to harass me.

I was eventually able to decimate the enemy forces and rout them off the field before time ran down. A few years and several sieges later, the Spanish were gone and their territory was in my hands. That was about the most frustrated I have ever been when trying to eliminate the enemy. Sorry, I just needed to vent.

[Dhepee]

If you have to play against Jinettes then you are more than welcome to rant. The little buggers annoy the hell out of me. Their chickensh@t tactics allow them to do more damage than you might expect when you send feudal knights after them. I always annihilate the scoundrels but it always cost me more than I am willing to pay. Worst of all they are boring to fight, nothing sucks more than chasing a couple of fleeing jackasses around a battlefield while they chuck spears at you.

[CeeBod]

I agree whole-heartedly with those sentiments - the only occassion I enjoyed fighting against a Jinette-heavy army was when I was defending and had 3 units of arbs as my front row. Watching those oh-so annoying spear chuckers cut down so quickly was highly satisfying http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

What I find really annoying about them though is the way that if you do go after them with cav, they have a tendency to run just far enough to isolate your unit, then change their skirmishing tactics and attack the isolated unit from all sides - rather effectively http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

Hmm - pass me another crossbow http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[Jxrc]

Never found Jinettes to be difficult opponents as long as you have enough archers (4-6 units).

The good thing with them is that, even on hard and when you are attacking, they will try to come at you to trow their silly javelins. Most of them of course get killed in the process.

So attacking or defending, you just need to place your archers behind a line of spears and be patient. They will try to get at you sooner or later.

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[Satyr]

Really fast cav like Alan Merc Cav can run down Jinettes. I use this tactic quite often when I face them. If you send anything that is not faster than the Jinettes, they will slowly get chewed to pieces.

Of course, if you are not playing with unlimited ammo, Jinettes only have 4 spears apiece so their ammo is gone pretty quickly.

[Shamus]

The armies that I threw at the Spanish were a mismatch of units that I was able to train at the time. The next time I face off against Jinettes, I will take more bow units with me. I think it might be best to use mounted bow units, as I found that the Jinettes kept marching back out of bow range when I used foot bow units.

[o_loompah_the_delayer]

If you have any Saharan cav, they are reasonably fast adn while teh jinettes are busy throwing their javelins send a saharn cav behind them, then when the jins scram pin them with your saharan. These guys will die but it does save time and annoyance and they gain valour, and thats useful against anglo-french hobilars.

[The_Emperor]

During my frequent English Campaigns (after I wipe out the French), I usually expand South into Spain and North Africa by choice before advancing across the vast territories of the HRE... So I frequently end up fighting those pesky Spanish Jinettes

The best tactic I have found to deal with them is sustained Archer fire (Horses are big targets), followed up by my own fast light Cavalry forces (Hobbilars, or in this case, Saharan Cav).

Also you can take advantage of their skirmishing habits by making them back into some of your own forces.

I also noticed that when skirmishing units are targeted by your men they tend to move away from your forces a lot more effectively.

When I was faced with a group of Jinettes, I got ALL of my large cavalry force to target one of them on the flank advancing from a diagonal direction. The unit ran away quickly while the rest of the enemy stood where they were despite being positioned between the fleeing Jinette and my Rapidly advancing forces in pursuit. Before long my Cavalry hit them as the enemy were turning to Skirmish away, but the impact of the charge was enough to cause some major casualties and rout the enemy unit.

Thus charging THROUGH the enemy seems to be better than charging AT them, but you still have to position yourself well.

But all in all think of them as a flock of sheep and your the Sheepdog... You need to move fast and carefully to get them to move where you want them to.

[Martok]

If I am playing as the Almohads, I combine both Jxrc's and o_loompah's tactics when taking on Jinnettes: I use desert archers to start picking away at them, and then have some Saharan cav waiting to cut them down when the buttnuggets retreat away from my arrows. I don't always enjoy a consistent success rate, of course; but the strategem does generally work quite well.

[[DnC]]

I even made Javelins more accurate (along other weapons), so you're lucky http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Though in my current Almohad campaign the beginning was really tough and those Spanish Jinittes can be a real nuisance. They're so fast

[HawaiianHobbit]

I hate jinittes, they rip apart my armys but when I have them I cant use them right and they get slaughtered.

[Martok]

Quote[/b] (HawaiianHobbit @ Dec. 13 2003,12:57)]I hate jinittes, they rip apart my armys but when I have them I cant use them right and they get slaughtered.
Yeah, Jinettes are a bitch to fight against. I love having them as the Spanish, though They're usually fast enough to stay out of serious trouble, plus they give my armies some needed flexibility--I generally have at least a couple units of them in all of my Early-era armies. In battles, I will admit that they sometimes need a little micromanagement; but for me at least, the results are well worth it. With the possible exception of knights, Jinettes have turned the tide in more of my battles than any other single unit (when I'm playing as the Spanish, that is).

While I'm admittedly only a fair battlefield commander in Medieval, I have learned a few things in regards to how to use Jinettes effectively:

1) Speed: The single biggest key is taking advantage of their quickness--use it to stay away from concentrated enemy missle fire and avoid melee combat with heavy infantry and heavy cavalry. The AI can and will try to outflank them, so make sure not to get caught between 2 (or more) enemy units.

2) When Skirmishing: Remember that their javelins are good against armoured troops; so you generally don't want to waste Jinettes' ammo on low-level units unless there is a pressing need to do so, and/or if they have nothing better to do

3) Melee combat: A couple points here--

3a) Against skirmishers, "peasant" units/light infantry, and other missle units, Jinettes can generally handle themselves without much problem. There is one major exception to this rule: Almohad Urban Militia. They're really more like medium infantry, and should not be engaged lightly.

3b) With lower-level spearmen, light cavalry, medium infantry, and other mounted missle units; Jinettes can still take them on, but you must be more careful. This is probably the single biggest problem people have with using Jinettes; probably because it's also where they usually require the most baby-sitting. Try to avoid attacking them head-on (particularly the spearmen, of course ); charge their flanks and rear whenever possible. If you do wind up charging them from the front but you still have some room so maneuver, try to avoid prolonged fighting. Instead, charge in, pull back; then swing around and charge again. Repeat this as often as necessary, and/or until you can find a way to get around and hit them on the flanks again.

3c) Under almost no circumstances should Jinettes ever take on heavy cavalry, heavy infantry, or the heftier spear units (chivalric seargents, Swiss pikemen, etc.) About the only exceptions to this rule are when they're running away, and maybe if you're charging into their rear (and preferably going downhill as well). Even then, I would be careful, as you never know when a fleeing unit will suddenly rally and turn to fight.