The Kensai General

[Senjutsu]

Hello all,

I was wondering if any of use have used a Kensai general. I have often, for the following reasons:

1) One of the most woeful events in battle is the announcement that your general is fleeing (and if he's on foot, it won't take long before the announcement heralds his death). Kensai simply don't rout - ever, so you can use your general liberally, instead of postponing his engagement to keep your troops in the fight.

2) The Generals unit is often a prime target. Kensai are extremely nimble (for infantry) and extremely capable even against moderately upgraded cavalry (although they're best used to engage an enemy unit after another of your units has already clashed with them). Keep him away from guns (an absolute rule!) and he'll be with you till the very end.

3) I only consider the kensai to be a worthy edition if he manages 60+ kills on average. Used well (and backed up in case of guns or cav charges), this is easy to achieve.

and,

4) The idea of an independant mythic general figure is very atmospheric. Truely YOU on the battlefield. I like that.

I did experiment with a ninja command unit, however, (i assume because they held the general and a ninja general is realistically poo poo and probably unanticipated by the designers) they were unable to conceal themselves at all, even in thick forest!

Anyway, back to the kensai, how many of you use them as generals (and why) and how many of you use them at all (and why) and how many of you don't use kensai (and why)?

Thanks

PS: The 16 kensai army mentioned in another thread is a very silly thing to field, both for atmosphere and performance. Guns are the absolute BANE of kensai - even humble Honor 2 lads will quickly dispatch these venerable sword saints.

PPS: This is my first post, i feel quite welcome here, kudo's to The Org, this game and it's engine has revoltuionised my gaming tastes and there is a violent surge of pleasure in my lower regions everytime i read more about Medievil Total War http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Incedently, i haven't fielded a kensai general for a while (i've been experimenting with naginata (also for sheer survival factors as well as heavy cav), this post was written in a state of nostalgia.

I'll shut up now.

[Vlad The Impaler]

wellcome Senjutsu

i dont think the kensai is an option as general; yes he never route but why is this useful is ur entire army route ?
and about his skills in battle..is no good to throw ur general in an attack; i like Hcav or CavArchers as general ;
and i think a mythical figure general is the one who wins in battle not the one who will kill a lot of enemies ;
a general must stay in the back and watch his army and the enemiy's moves .

[evilc]

a general unit cant hide at all, whether he is a ninja or in a forest, his unit will always be visible. Otherwise, ppl could sit in a forest for a timed 5 min comp game and win, the AI could also do that.

[Katasaki Hirojima]

Acctually, The Kensai as a general is very useable. Ecspecially if your a fan for center assaults. Hide him in amongst your Naginata and suddenly you've produced a killing machine. The naginata sit there and preoccupy enemy troops while your general dances around takeing heads. Its like hideing a rock in a snowball... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

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"I maintain none the less that Yin-Yang Dualism can be overcome. With sufficent enlightment, we can give substance to any distinction: Mind without body, north without south, pleasure without pain. Renember, enlightment is a function of will power, not of physical strength."- Shang-ji Yang, essays on mind and matter.

[LETRIC]

Quote Originally posted by Katasaki Hirojima:
Its like hideing a rock in a snowball... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

[/QUOTE]

What a great analogy!

Yagyu Kamiizumi

[Gothmog]

I use Kensai as general in single player, for fun and castle assault.

But HC is simply THE best unit for general. Period. Just put one Kensai and a full strength of HC unit into a death match, and see which taisho drops first, haha.

[LETRIC]

What if my Genral is a full strength of Yari Samurai? Cav on a spit, ready for BBQ.
But seriously, the best is what works in a given situation. HC are like tanks and make great Gen. Kensai are good, sometimes, sometimes not. YS are good, sometimes not.
How many times have I sat and thought "that's the trick!" only to come away mauled and rethinking my strategy.
I personally prefer YS Gen. All units can die

[Krasturak]

Kensai do rout.

Usually they die almost immediately, since they rout when they are surrounded by enemies most of the time.

[Zone]

Or hide him in your No-dachi. The first time I came across a Kensi it was a historical battle (or was it custom) and the enemy taisho was a Kensi. I though he was a No-dachi (even though he looked a little big http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/rolleyes.gif ) and the little sod just would hnot die http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/mad.gif

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ROFL..Zone does not rest [MIZILUS]

I don't play to win... I play not to lose http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

P.S. smilies should work in the signature!

[This message has been edited by Zone (edited 02-03-2002).]

[Magyar Khan]

its nice if he was on an horse with 8 followers like in sp campaign and is a 17th unit

[Tac]

One time the Hojo had fielded 2 Kensai against me (Imagawa).. and 1 of them was the general (them being highest honour units after bashing the Uesugi armies to pieces).

Sweetest of all was, it only took 5 ninja to assasinate him *wicked grin*

The other kensai became general a few turns after that.. and was promptly dispatched by my other ninja.

Su-weet!

[TenkiSenjutsu]

This character is a FAKE!

[Gothmog]

Agree.

The Kensai's "on-board" honor is always lower than should be. Thus usually in an army, he is on the low end, honorwise.

Plus, most Kensais are too shy to be generals anyway. (it's a "feature" of MI/WE that those "special" units such as Kensai and BN are reluctant to stand up and lead an army.)

Thus it's very unlikely that they show up as leaders on the strategic maps.

[Nelson]

In a campaign, kensai take a long time to train and thus tie up a well developed region that could be providing many other good troops instead. So I seldom if ever use them.

[Moriboy]

Are any of you talking about a Kensai general ?ve never been able to have a Kensai general in SP unless he leads a group of Kensais. I once trapped about a dozen battered Mongols in the last province and just for fun sent in 16 kensai's to boost a generals honor. The mongols ran every time until my general got to be rank 3. I then inserted him into another army with a rank 0 general and the zero was still the boss. What is up with that?

[Gothmog]

Moriboy San:

First of all, even though Heirs can NOT be born as Kensai or BN, generals can (those who start off higher than rank 0, or "historical figures).

2ndly, what you observed is correct: Kensais and BNs are extremly reluctant to be the general. So if you combine a rank 6 Kensai general with a bunch of pesty Yari Ashigaru, more than likely some peasant instead of your sword saint will lead the army.

However, there is a way around this, here is the trick:

Group regular troops into ONE group, put the kensai general into ANOTHER. This second group should only contain himself, or him and other kensais, thus insuring his general status in this second group. Now when actual combat occurs, the game engine will compare the rank of the generals of these two groups, the one with higher rank (the kensai) is now the leader of the combined force.

[Jaguara]

Cool Gothmog!

You just made me think of something though...wouldn't making BN's the general be rather counter-productive as the general unit can never be hidden?

[Tac]

the AI knows of this and uses it to get the kensai's bonus.

ninja fodder mwahaha

[Moriboy]

Thanks Gothmog! I dont know why I never thought of that before. Have a great weekend!