Ireland - in Early, High, and Late

[ichi]

I'm mostly Irish by heritage, and I like to pick up island provinces that are held by rebels, so I usually get hold of Ireland early.

However, . . .

It barely pays for itself. The province florin production is just enough to pay troop garrison support (usually leaves like 100 florins profit max).

The money I spend building up the place would probably be better spent elsewhere.

It is vulnerable to attack by sea AND if cut off, to revolts.

As interesting as Irish units are, they are not as effective as other troop options later in the game.

It is rarely a strategic hotspot. Usually held by rebels, it is not supporting my enemies financially.

I must occupy my ancestral homeland, but I wonder why?

So, wha d'ya think?

ichi

[Vigi]

Well it does have a trade good, that being wool. When I played the English I built a port and trading post there and it started producing a fair amount when my ships were abroad. Think it was makin around 700-900 at one point on trade and thats not bad. It's also useful as a base to retreat to if you're getting your ass handed to. This is due to it's relative remoteness. This of course doesn't happen that often usually, but hey you never know. Those are just a few uses I can think of for it.

[Somebody Else]

How can one not have gallowglasses romping around? Nutters with big swords and no armour - great combination
Ireland all the way Besides, if I don't take it, someone else will.

[katar]

i always like to capture my homeland, definately get a sence of fufillment when i do. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

i like to play them in VI as well, bonnaghts can make things interesting. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[The_Emperor]

I always like to take over Ireland whenever I can, of course this is due to the irish units more than any real monetary contribution.

Gallowglasses are great fun, big guys with big swords (and sometimes no patience) those guys often make up the core of my Desert Armies...

Kerns I have taken a shine to as well, they are great Skirmishers and are very useful to train. (especially for factions like the English who don't have any javelinmen of their own).

Nothing like a volley of javelins into a group of Spearmen http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Oh yeah and Ireland has great booze http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[Eastside Character]

I take Ireland only when there's nothing else to take. Generally I think it's not worthy... But if they had Guinness Beer as their tradable good, hmm then I think I would drop in for a pint or two... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[Quokka]

If its easy, sometimes.

I generally like to use the islands as prisons for factions instead of eliminating them. Ireland works well for the English. If I am playing the English then I grab Ireland for the Gallowglasses.

Island prisons work well. I like to Force a faction onto the island and leave it there, preferably with a negative income, bank balance and hopefully a Port. Then I remove my ships from the surrounding seas for a turn and then move them back. This ends the war between us and turns them into the perfect trading partner, one that can never again attack you, can't re-emerge with 10,000 Chiv Knights, or equivalent, in your interior as they aren't dead and always buy your goods.

In my current game as the Turks/Early/Expert/GA its 1231 and I have the Sicilians on Crete, the Byzantines on Cyprus and the Papacy on Corsica-Sardinia as happy little convicts/consumers, although the Pope still announces his stupid edicts.

[HopAlongBunny]

If I'm playing a Christian faction...Always

Gotta have them Gallowglasses http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Brutal DLX]

I was tempted to vote Gah, but then I really take it, but don't make an effort to hold it unless I built a lot there.
It can support itself, and also act as a navy base.
The units are good, although I don't use them much.

[DojoRat]

Ireland becomes part of the English Homelands GA towards the end of the early era, I think. I usually wait untill that hits and the French have been dealt with before I spend the florins on ships and men to take and hold the province.

[DemonArchangel]

If i'm playing as say, the Turks or Egyptians or Byzantines, HELL NO but as brits, yes.

[lancer63]

Gallows and kerns are ok as shock troops on early and kind of hold their ground in later periods. But the greatest advantage of Ireland is their position. Holding on to it allows you to have an outpost from which you can threaten western europe. Helped loads as invasion launch pad when I played my spanish campaing.

[TheSilverKnight]

I voted for gah http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/handball.gif

[Nelson]

Gallowglasses are one of the best values in the game. When money is tight Ireland is worth taking just to get them.

[The_678]

I like to have it for the Gallowglasses, but for me it has anothere very useful use. A great place to kill my crap heirs if it's still rebel. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Just want to use the great new Smilies, CHRISTMAS GUINNESS http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/santa.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[Magraev]

Quote[/b] (Somebody Else @ Dec. 14 2003,01:39)]Besides, if I don't take it, someone else will.
So - you win either way.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/birthday.gif

[el_slapper]

Useful when you have what it takes - ships & army. Gallowglasses & kern are especially good in the desert in any period. Exterminate those petty AUMs...

[scudknight]

Yep, IMO anything with the ability to have a port and some troops is worth taking. But I'd rather have scotland. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Satyr]

Even if I am the Brits, I don't bother taking Scotland or Ireland until quite late in the game. They take too many troops to garrison and provide too little income. I would much rather spend those troops on killing French, Spanish or German troops than trying to keep some silly Celts happy.

[Kristaps]

Quote[/b] (Satyr @ Dec. 17 2003,14:09)]Even if I am the Brits, I don't bother taking Scotland or Ireland until quite late in the game. They take too many troops to garrison and provide too little income. I would much rather spend those troops on killing French, Spanish or German troops than trying to keep some silly Celts happy.
hmm, i never garrison Ireland or Scottland with more than 100 peasants... except in the very first years after the occupation... 100 peasants + a couple spies + a bishop keep these provinces happy and loyal...

[HopAlongBunny]

Quote[/b] (Kristaps @ Dec. 17 2003,14:56)]hmm, i never garrison Ireland or Scottland with more than 100 peasants... except in the very first years after the occupation... 100 peasants + a couple spies + a bishop keep these provinces happy and loyal...
I agree. By the time you have a port built to get back out of Ireland its usually pacified. Scotland settles down fairly quickly too, just build with an eye to happiness and all should be well http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Satyr]

Yes, but unless you are bribing the armies in Scotland and/or Ireland, you are using valuable troops to take provinces that are relatively poor. And you are not using those troops to conquer your enemy. If I am going to spend my troops in battle, I would much rather weaken a real opponent than spend troops on rebels. So, unless the land I am getting is rich or I am not prepared to actually go to war with anyone I will always choose to weaken my opponents first. Does no one else think this way?

[ichi]

Quote[/b] ]hmm, i never garrison Ireland or Scottland with more than 100 peasants... except in the very first years after the occupation... 100 peasants + a couple spies + a bishop keep these provinces happy and loyal...

My experience is a little different, in that some provinces (including Ireland and Scotland) require a little bit more of a garrison than just 100 pez. This is with Bishops, Spies, Assassins, Emissaries, border forts, keeps, the whole happiness deal.

The rub comes when an enemy gets a ship in the way, and the island gets cut off from my king. Now I've got a stack of kerns and gallows to go deal with (which is no big deal, its just a pain).

What's interesting to me is the wide variety of responses - just what I expected, with good rationale behind the variations.

Sean Connery in 'A Bridge Too Far': "It takes an Irishman to play the pipes".

ichi

[katar]

Quote[/b] ]"It takes an Irishman to play the pipes".

Go raibh mile maith agat.
Go mbeirimid beo ar an am seo aris http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/santa.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[ichi]

Quote[/b] (katar @ Dec. 18 2003,01:35)]
Quote[/b] ]"It takes an Irishman to play the pipes".

Go raibh mile maith agat.
Go mbeirimid beo ar an am seo aris http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/santa.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif
I understand the first line, which I think says "Thank you for your help"

Tá fáilte romhat

You're welcome

Níl mórán Gaeilge agam.

I don't speak much Gaelic

Níl mé ach ag tosú ar an teanga a fhoghlaim.

I'm just learning the language

Nollaig Shona agus Athbhliain faoi Mhaise Daoibh.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you all

Ádh mór

ichi

[katar]

Quote[/b] ]I understand the first line, which I think says "Thank you for your help"

Go raibh mile maith agat.
thank you very much

Go mbeirimid beo ar an am seo aris
may we be alive this time next year. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

as for those people who piked one of the last two choices.
Biodh an diabhal acu http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

Slan agat. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[TheLastEuropean]

I always take Ireland and start building the leprechaun units with upgraded gold-dust.

[katar]

whatever turns you on sunshine. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[CeeBod]

I always try and get Ireland quickly when I'm playing in early - I much prefer it to Scotland - it's less rebellious, Celtic Warriors are like 100 man Highland Clansmen, but for a support cost lower per man, even than peasants w00t http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

It has a trade good, never needs defending by anything more than a few ships - so a couple of cheap units take care of garrison requirements, and Gallowglass and Kerns are both cool units, that are particularly useful in the desert.

Also, the Governor gets +1 to Command - always a handy bonus http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/birthday.gif

So here's to Ireland - http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

mine's a Guiness http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[mbrasher1]

Gallows are better than CMAA and are available at an earlier stage ion development, IIRC. Sure, it takes a whole to ghet to Ireland, but these boys, and the wool there, are worth it.

[Math Mathonwy]

i always get Ireland as England, love to use those irish guys early period.

[gaelic cowboy]

If your are playing GA you need that wool trade good to fulfill the english trade GA. So yes take it Ireland is a handy province that way. No other european power will attempt to take it even when they are kicking your ass. Funnily as the almos i always take it as your ships can reach it before anyone else and it is handy to project almo power into the north of europe as yo can get left behind by the developing superpower up top. Just be careful of rebellions as they tend to be big early on however a mixture of bribery and cuteness ie alway command yourself remenber they dont have archers and knights just a couple of those and stout spearmen should see you through.
remember Ireland like Portugal and Scotland is supposed to rebel try to think of it as a training ground for a general for later expansion. Using these ideas you could end up with pretty cool stats.

[Crazed Rabbit]

How can anyone not want to get Ireland, what with the gallowglasses, kerns, and fine beer?

I love to take Ireland and then crush the English under my iron boot with gallowglasses. And then every other faction. Of course, I may be a bit biased, for I am Irish. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Crazily yours,
Crazed Rabbit

P.S. have a Happy New Year

[Ashen]

Pogue mahone?

Always a personal favorite if you can excuse the profanity http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

its how the Pogues got their name.

[LordKhaine]

I go out of my way to get Ireland. Even sending attacks all the way from distant lands to take Ireland. Gotta love those Gallowglasses, cheap and chearful, and very suiting for desert combat.

[Doug-Thompson]

A port in Ireland can save a lot of florins just on the maintenance cost of fleets.

If you're playing the Byzantines, Turks or Eqyptians, that alone makes Ireland worth having.

[ichi]

Quote[/b] (Doug-Thompson @ Jan. 13 2004,18:13)]A port in Ireland can save a lot of florins just on the maintenance cost of fleets.

If you're playing the Byzantines, Turks or Eqyptians, that alone makes Ireland worth having.
Excellent point Doug. That's one I never considered.

ichi

[starkhorn]

Quote[/b] (ichi @ Dec. 18 2003,01:57)][quote]
Sean Connery in 'A Bridge Too Far': "It takes an Irishman to play the pipes".
It was Sean Connery who had that line but it was in the Longest Day and not a bridge too far.

[*Ringo*]

Quote[/b] (Eastside Character @ Dec. 14 2003,21:46)]But if they had Guinness Beer as their tradable good, hmm then I think I would drop in for a pint or two... :cheers:
hic... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

*Ringo*

[*Ringo*]

Hey i'm now a Man at Arms... this definately calls for a pint http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif Anyone coming down the tavern?? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

*Ringo*

[Jeff]

I picked Yes but I won't work to hold it. First, depending on what faction I am would be a big factor in whether to take Ireland. Obviously it's a big advantage to have it if you playing the English or even the French. The troops alone make it nice. While it's not a big money maker, it's still a nice strategic point for the northern part of the map. You could take Ireland if purely to piss off the English. Usually when I play as a Muslim faction I try and take Ireland as fast as I can get a ship there so that I have a foothold with which to bother the English, French and HRE.

And hey where else am I going to party on St. Patricks day http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-toff.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[insolent1]

Irelands well worth taking as their are some good troops & can make some money.

[Aelwyn]

I usually take it if I'm making enough money to not care about keeping troops there for a while. I usually take it after I've finished expanding into the rich provinces I want to take.

[afroide]

Gallowglasses are perhaps one of the best units in the game from an economic point of view. They are DIRT cheap, and can wreak havok even in late with 3 or 4 valor.

Whenever I'm playing as england I tend to build gallowglasses every turn. Find a sacrificial 2 or 3 star general, and send him into a strongly held enemy province with 8 or 10 gallowglasses. It's a great way to soften up your enemies to make them easy pickings for your main force.

[kiwitt]

It really isn't worth the effort.

Remember, even the Irish wanted to leave the "Ireland" in the past.

[gaelic cowboy]

It is not as hard to conquer as some believe and you get at most one or two rebellions unlike Livonia or Portugal. Also the English need the Irish units for when they invade the desert portions of the map. Those gallowglass and kerns have no armour so can fight for longer than standard English units in the heat. Both are good against armoured units and more expendable that cavalry or cmaa. There is also the wool which is a GA and the fact on GA you must conquer Ireland for your Homelands.Also I never pass the opportunity to conquer rebell provinces You only leave a dagger at the English throat if say the French get it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Goofball]

No matter what faction I am playing, I try to take all of the island provinces as quickly as I can. They provide good shipbuilding bases and you don't have to protect them with huge garrisons.

[VikingHorde]

I allways take Ireland as the danes, good trade province.

[katank]

bases pretty much covered.

it is at a strategic location that nicely reduces your naval support costs and pays dividends that way even if you are orthodox or muslim as it's the only island in the north, with islands so defensible.

furthermore, if catholic, units like gallows are great. don't forget to get them some morale upgrades though.