help with the Aragonese

[Master Luna]

I just got VI one week ago and need help on the Arogonese.
1.who to attack?
2.when to attack?
3.who should I allie with?
4.how should I build my economy?
5.what units to train?


Anything I missed please post it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Papewaio]

In brief:

The smaller you are the sooner you attack and full out. Go for rebels and then check out who of your neighbours is at war (and hopefully losing) then attack your neighbour.

Perfect a small defensive army that you can use well that is cheap.

Perfect an attacking force that you take minimal casualites with.

Think about a hit and run spiral. Essentially attack an adjacent province to Aragon each turn, just keep moving, don't try and keep it unless you have enough forces to. By continually moving you keep the enemy on their toes. If possible do a deep strike hit and run. Send out an attack force that works its way deep into the enemy lands and then works its way back for replenishments.

If you do this well enough your neighbour will get attacked by others who want an easy couple of provinces from a weak nation. You then pick up the remaining provinces that you can retain.

Also use your strategic pieces and the counters to them like watch towers.

[Foreign Devil]

Initially, your biggest challenge will be to eliminate Spain. Seize both neighboring rebel provences, bribing them if you can. El Cid in Valencia, IIRC, makes an exellent general early in the game.

Try and build up your forces and take Castille, and ideally Cordoba if you can, as quickly as possible. Speed is important, but don't invade until you have a large enough army to deal with the spanish. Mercinaries can help out, but remember to disband them as soon as they are no longer needed as they are expensive to maintain. Once you have most of the Iberian pennunsula, build up your economy and military as you would with any other faction.

Good Luck and have fun. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Brutal DLX]

Bribe Valencia, conquer Navarre.

Make peace with as many factions as possible, then build basic things in your provinces, border forts, forts, training facilities and upgrade farmland. Upgrade Aragon the most.
Then wait for an opportunity as Papewaio described, but be careful not to declare war first, but rather try to join an exisiting one on the side of your allies, this will usually help you to avoid getting attacked from all sides.

If they are all sitting peacefully, upgrade more and try to get a navy going which can help you to defend your coast and possibly invade some of the Mediterranean isles. Or, you could max out your army and then attack if you feel confident in your battle abilities.

[Ironside]

In early you can also grab Provence from the French very early. Thanks to that you don't share any borders with Fance afterwards you can take this province without any problem and go back to beeing neutral. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[R'as al Ghul]

Hi everybody

I also tried out the Aragonese with similar problems.
Bribing El Cid didn't work out for me in early, hard.
Even with a one star ambassador and 5500 Florins the Cid wasn't willing. Also the Navarrian Peasant General was too loyal. I started this campaign several times over again, just to be sure. The bribing didn't work.
Being angry I decided to invade Valencia and I won. After that i conquered Toulouse and Navarra. This gives you quite a good income. After that i had to sit and wait for a few years, so I did some upgrading. Fortunately Aquitania fell to English rebels during a civil war. I attacked and smashed those Hobilars with my Spears.
Now I'm waiting for the Almos to finish the Spaniards. I'm scared of the Almoad Urban militia and still don't have any horses but will keep on fighting.
Cheers

[Basileus]

After turn 4 or 5 you can bribe El Cid for 3k florins so do it then, grab Navare first turn and attack tolouse with El Cid the turn after you got him with the bribe (if your successful that is). 4 Provinces and you should be able to have a good amount of florins so raise your army, i usualy use Navare for Inf Aragon for Inf & Cav and Valancia for my Navy.

[Count Fudgula]

I started in the High period with the Aragonese, so there was no El Cid around. I ended up going north into Toulouse and Aquitaine so I could have a good trade port on the Mediterreanean as well as the Atlantic. This enabled me to build trade quicker (going around the Iberian penninsula was too expensive and time consuming early on).

I did bribe the Navarre rebels, but I also made the mistake of bribing the Portuguese. No link to the rest of my provinces meant rebellion after rebellion after rebellion until the force I had initially bought out was destroyed.

The Almohads currently have an enormous empire to my south, but so far I'm still on friendly terms with them. (Just waiting till I can start pumping out the Chiv Knights).

[Quokka]

Quote[/b] (Ironside @ Dec. 15 2003,17:17)]In early you can also grab Provence from the French very early. Thanks to that you don't share any borders with Fance afterwards you can take this province without any problem and go back to beeing neutral. :D
You can grab Toulouse from the French, and its a good rich province to grab with the very handy Chivalric Knight bonus to boot.
Not much later it may even be possible to grab Provence from the HRE if the French or Italians grab Burgundy cutting it off from the rest of the HRE.

[Ashen]

Don't play the argonese :p

Most difficult faction IMO and i've played them all at least 3 times.

You are all doing it wrong. The Argonese should not be overly aggressive on the spanish mainland at first. Bribe Navarre, Conquer Valencia. AND BUILD YOUR NAVY. This is the key to success with the argonese; Navy, navy, Navy. Fill the med with boats and grab every island there. Including sicily if possible as it will eliminate your potential most powerful rival.

Every island with mines (where applicable; sardinia I think), Ports, Guilds and Farms and you'll be bringing in 3-4k profit a year. More than enough to both build up, hire mercenaries and bribe armies. If you can do this while keeping 3 reasonably big standing armies on your spanish soil (>700) the spanish should stay nice and polite. As mentioned, expanding north into france and english french provinces is also a good bet at times; sometimes they both leave the southern provinces very underdefended.

[Count Fudgula]

Have to agree with Ashen. A big navy gives a much larger array of options for raking in the florins and launching attacks. Staying relatively small and grabbing one or two of the three trade goods provinces (like Sicily, Sweden etc.) through a bit of a surprise overseas visit is key to success.

Heading north into Toulouse or Aquitaine is often eased by the French and the English kicking the stuffing out of each other and ignoring you until they are too weak to resist.

I am a bit disappointed by the boring GA campaign objectives for the Aragonese (in High anyway). They don't seem to have anything to match the hilariously mentalist Krak De Chevaliers objective the French have in Early (it's possible that few factions do).

[Basileus]

Quote[/b] (Count Fudgula @ Jan. 21 2004,09:14)]I am a bit disappointed by the boring GA campaign objectives for the Aragonese (in High anyway). They don't seem to have anything to match the hilariously mentalist Krak De Chevaliers objective the French have in Early (it's possible that few factions do).
Aragonese get better GA objectives in late, historicly accurate cause its about that time when they did best.

[R'as al Ghul]

Hi Again
Well, i played on and now i own Aquitania, Toulouse, Aragon, Navarra, Leon, Castilia, Cordoba and Valencia.
In all provinces I have ports and trade posts.
The Florins keep coming and I can tech up.
What really bothers me is the kind of troops I shall build.
The closest enemies are the Almos, French, HRE and probably Italy.
Any Idea?. Will I be able as Aragonese to build the Knights of Santiago in Leon? Are they any good compared to other Knights I will be able to build at the time?
Cheers
P.S: Why don't they have any special units?

[Count Fudgula]

Well, the Aragonese get Jinettes and Spanish Javelinmen, which are special units(especially now that the Spanish have disappeared in your game).

They are tricky to get used to using but are VERY effective once you master the techniques. The basic idea is to pin the opposition with spearmen or sergeants and let the javelinmen lash their spears over the top. When done correctly this can make a massive impact on the enemy.

You can only get Knights of Santiago from crusades. They are great as Crusader Knights go, but you can't really retrain them, which limits their usefulness.

Keep plugging away with the navy. I'd suggest trying to make sure your ships are superior to the other factions so you don't get cut off anywhere when trouble breaks out.

[R'as al Ghul]

@Count Fudgula
Yeah, you're right about the navy. I should make that sure.
But what about the Knights Santiago.
The Province info says that you get a bonus in Leon but if this would only occur during crusades this would be strange, wouldn't it?
About the Jinetes you're also right, I played the Spaniards once and thought they were nice. Especially because when you build them in Leon (again this Province) they keep coming up with at least one star right from the beginning. Don't ask me why.
But by special units I thought of some come Knights like the other former non playable factions have....
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif
Well, it somehow forces me to go back to use more of my assassins. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif ...One of 3 star ass-assins just went to border fort and said hello http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-oops.gif
Cheers

[Count Fudgula]

Yes, you can only get Knights of Santiago by launching Crusades, and yes, it is a bit strange (a bit like the Chivalric Foot Knights bonus in Ile de France, you can't really build them, but you can get them).

Keep a satellite province low tech with an Inn so you can attract lots of mercenaries. You can develop quite a *unique* army this way.

[fruitfly]

Knights of Santiago have the same stats as chivalric knights, but look much better from a purely aesthetic point of view.

The two closest things you can get to unique units as the Aragonese with your current provinces are lancers (who the Spanish also have, but they're wiped out) and +1 valour chivalric knights (since you hold Toulouse).

Those are two of the best cavalry units in the game, both available in the high and late periods. Chivalric knights make pretty awesome infantry too (they can dismount before battle), although their smaller unit size is a bit of a pain.

I'd suggest building up Navarre or Castille to make lancers. For that you'll need a fortress, master spearmaker, master horse breeder (I think) and master armourer. It's a big investment, but add in the +4 weapons you can get from either of those provinces and they'll be close to unstoppable.

If you build up Toulouse and Aragon so that you can train Chivalric knights there, then you'll be able to train them at +1 valour in Toulouse and send them next door to retrain in Aragon and get weapon upgrades there, making them even better.

Neither of those heavy cav units is much cop in the desert (their armour means they cook), but they're perfect for steamrollering your way across Europe and the Steppes.

[ichi]

Quote[/b] (fruitfly @ Jan. 22 2004,12:42)]Knights of Santiago have the same stats as chivalric knights, but look much better from a purely aesthetic point of view.
KoS are not impetuos, which I think makes them better Generals as they are less likely to rush into battle until you tell them to do so.


Quote[/b] ]The two closest things you can get to unique units as the Aragonese with your current provinces are lancers (who the Spanish also have, but they're wiped out) and +1 valour chivalric knights (since you hold Toulouse).

Jinettes aren't really unique, as they can be built by other factions that conquer provinces in Spain, but as long as you hold Spain you are the only faction with Jinettes, the only cav javelin unit in the game. Very fun to play, IMHO.



Quote[/b] ]What really bothers me is the kind of troops I shall build.

You need two types - armored cav and infantry for Europe, and lighter, faster troops for Arica.

Build crusades and send them to the closest Muslim province in Africa - the idea is to get crusader troops by sending crusades to the easiest provinces -thus getting the best chance that the most troops will survive and be available to you. Fight the battles yourself and hold back the good guys like KoS to save them for later.

Keep a province or two without armorers, to produce armorless troops for the desert. Vanilla archers are OK in the desert (once you conquer Genoa you get Genoese Sailors who can fight a little better than archers.

Make sure you have an inn down south (or bribe desert armies) in order to get camels, Muslim cav archers, Ghazis, AUMs, Nubian Spearmen, and other good desert troops.

Pav Xbows/Arbs, FMAA or CMAA, along with Chivalric Sargents and some heavy cav is a good troop mix for fighting Europeans.

ichi