Florins coming out your ears?? [Archive]

desdichado

12-17-2003, 04:23

mbrasher1,

I did it once as a test with the Danes. You don't even need that many provinces - just get the best ones you can and the Danes have some pretty good ones - build up your fleet and merchants as much as possible - stay on the defensive and your armies don't have to be too large especially if you can grab a bottleneck province.

To be honest though I didn't find it that interesting - much more fun dealing with limited florins and having to scrimp and save and make tough decisions about where to spend those florins. Thats why I decided to limit ships to my own coastal provinces only.

Egyptians, Danes or Byzantines are probably the best factions to try this with if you're so inclined

Most of the time I'm close to broke but having a great game - total opposite of reality really http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

ichi

12-17-2003, 09:40

des got it right: small, high quality army (few mercs) holding bottlenecks, with only a few provinces bordering other factions; all of the money-making stuff, ports, merchants, even bowyers make florins; lots of ships; good governors and a King with some economic virtues; and peace with other naval powers and trade partners.

I like to have enough cash so that I do not have to wait to start building something (in other words never get the insufficient florins message) and about 5-10 years of surplus. Any less and you aren't being efficient. If you have too much money, I say spent it on some troops and take the world.

ichi

makkyo

12-17-2003, 23:30

[QUOTE]Must destroy mankind - Homer

He He He

Oh yeh... you could tax your province to death too in order to sap every natural resource out of it. It could lead to some rebelious yet pethetic peasents though, but it works.

Big King Sanctaphrax

12-18-2003, 01:57

Quote[/b] ]Most of the time I'm close to broke but having a great game - total opposite of reality really

You're fantastically rich, but having a crap time? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

Teutonic Knight

12-18-2003, 02:11

Quote[/b] (Big King Sanctaphrax @ Dec. 17 2003,19:57)]
Quote[/b] ]Most of the time I'm close to broke but having a great game - total opposite of reality really

You're fantastically rich, but having a crap time? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif
I wonder if that reflects him in RL? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

desdichado

12-18-2003, 06:28

Quote[/b] (Big King Sanctaphrax @ Dec. 18 2003,10:57)]
Quote[/b] ]Most of the time I'm close to broke but having a great game - total opposite of reality really

You're fantastically rich, but having a crap time? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif
hah; not quite. i'm probably somewhere in the middle. Twas more of a general observation

Voigtkampf

12-18-2003, 08:29

Personally, I simply cannot believe that someone gets off with 600 000 or 800 000 florins surplus in the game. IMHO, they are all .deadringer.'s All of the time when I play can say I'm happy if I have 1000 to 2000 florins profits yearly, with all my provinces set to maximum tax and being very carefully with improving the farmlands, building merchants and ports, even bowyers, and I never get that much money Actually I always believed that this part is the one where the game is so fine balanced; in other games you would get incredible income after a while and you could build armies and everything beyond any scale of reason

Oh, and before someone says something about building less armies and saving money, I guess we all know that such strategy won't bring you through twenty years of game; cool, having 3 units of superior Gothic knights and fighting off an army of 2000 spearmen... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

Again, I play mostly with HRE and have always cash problems, when I play with the Egyptians I'm far better off, but 600 000 surplus? C'mon, guys http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

Somebody Else

12-18-2003, 09:14

Personally, I play on expert (of course) and cash-flow ceases to be a problem after a short while - partly because I always build up the provinces I have - and ensure that I initially take rich provinces off the AI. Plus, I dislike knights, so I don't have any, consequentially my unit maintenance costs aren't that high - usually maintenance costs are about half of my gross income. I also make sure I maintain a large trade network.
I've yet to hit the 1,000,000 mark in my treasury though - I tend to hit about 800,000 by the time I've taken too much of the map for trade to work (either that or I've declared war on everyone I trade with).
I do get a lot of my income from farming though - as I increase the farming unless I really need something else built instead.
I also never have a governer with less than 4 acumen, preferably with some dread - this reduces the garrison needed, therefore reduces support costs.

Brutal DLX

12-18-2003, 09:14

This is very possible if you do have a complete tradenetwork and some nice provinces and are either playing a GA game or not expanding that much until late.
Usually the money starts to amass in GA games towards the end of your campaign when you are happy with the size of your empire and already upgraded most buildings to their maximum levels. You simply have no way to spend your money, especially if you don't lose a lot of men in your battles.
However, sometimes that money comes in handy when bribing really loyal high star generals. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Aymar de Bois Mauri

12-18-2003, 13:48

Quote[/b] ]This is very possible if you do have a complete tradenetwork and some nice provinces and are either playing a GA game or not expanding that much until late.
Usually the money starts to amass in GA games towards the end of your campaign when you are happy with the size of your empire and already upgraded most buildings to their maximum levels. You simply have no way to spend your money, especially if you don't lose a lot of men in your battles.

Preciselly http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
I once, with the Almohads, had +700000 florins in my reserves... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

barvaz

12-18-2003, 13:49

I don't know about tradeless campaigns but when using trade, I have more money than I know what to do with. Once I didn't even know there can be a real money issue in the game until I started reading these forums.

In my current campaign, I play the English on Normal. The year now is 1232 (stared Early). I have about 650,000 with a yearly net profit of 19,000 florins. Before the recent war with Italians, my yearly net profit was around 30,000 (income was about twice than that). I train enormous armies; every province that can train anything decent is always busy producing units. Also, all my provinces are always building something. Even useless stuff that I don’t actually need in that province.

Trade seems to be overpowered, in my opinion; there is absolutely no challenge getting money using it. This is why I decided my next campaign will include no trading posts whatsoever.

Some guidelines I always follow:
- Never let a king with less than 3 acumen rule. I watch my princes and assassinate any next-in-line heir that doesn’t have enough acumen or has bad V&V
- Any province by the sea always gets a shipyard first.
- Any province with anything to trade gets the trading posts plus their upgrades at highest priority
- Goal to occupy every sea zone on the map as soon as possible.
- Watch the factions I am at war with so they don’t block trade routes. Enemy ships are high priority.
- I usually let the AI manage governor titles. It is fun to manage at the beginning but at the stage you have more than several provinces it can get tedious.
- Same with taxes - let the AI manage them which gets the job done at keeping this high without risking rebellions.
- Build all farm upgrade on all provinces (except troops producing ones, which have the respective troop producing buildings at highest priority so I never get to building farms or trading posts there). It isn’t economic on the poorer provinces but eventually it will get the money back if the campaign is long enough.

The downside to this is that the game progresses really slowly. Ships are real pain to manage (the seas were never the strongest sides of Total War) and constantly watching the build queue of dozens of provinces makes each turn last forever, add to that assassination attempts and world politics management and my current progress is about 3-8 years in a gaming session (I play about couple of hours every night, until I hear my wife yelling “turn the damn thing off and go to sleep” at 3am), depends on how many battles I fight manually. But I am having a blast building my English Empire slowly night by night.

- barvaz

Voigtkampf

12-18-2003, 16:46

Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ Dec. 18 2003,06:48)]
Preciselly http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
I once, with the Almohads, had +700000 florins in my reserves... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]
Oh, come on, Lord Aymar, you're pulling my leg now http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

I have never had so much surplus; I admit that when playing with Egyptians for example I could stock up some florins, but nowhere near that sum http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

Vice or virtue gained

*due to rather misfortunate accident involving a nobles wife and her rather furious husband, voigtkampf loses two fingers and hence is no longer good in math. He suffers -10 acumen and all provinces suffer -75% production while he is in charge*

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

Aymar de Bois Mauri

12-18-2003, 19:53

Quote[/b] ]
Quote[/b] ]Preciselly http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
I once, with the Almohads, had +700000 florins in my reserves... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Oh, come on, Lord Aymar, you're pulling my leg now http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
HEHEHEHE http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Check this out:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/story/aymar%20de%20bois%20mauri%20sp%20campaign%20the%20hungarian%20front.jpg

It is about 70 years after the start of the war, so my finances hadn't recovered from the trade blocking... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I will try and upload an earlier picture with the 700000florins from an earlier savegame (before the war)... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Shamus

12-18-2003, 20:30

Mbrasher1, I can understand your surprise at the florin numbers that some people put up. When I first started coming to these forums I was blown away by the numbers some people achieved. I couldn’t understand how they could possibly make that much money. To be honest, it’s almost all in the trade. I played a number of games without trade, and I survived. But I barely scraped by. At that point I hadn’t even bothered to learn about trade.

Then I tried putting together trade routes as the Byzantines. I gained control of every sea section, and was allied with the owners of all but a few ports. I made sure that all provinces capable of trading, did so. I also made sure that those provinces with more tradable goods received more upgrades early on.

Once my own territories were secure and I had expanded to points of strategic advantage, (as well as having ships throughout the seas), I started on an aggressive campaign to take various coastal provinces with several tradable goods from the rebels who resided in them. This way I didn’t piss off any of my trading allies, but still claimed wealthy territories. From time to time I would attack wealthy provinces of factions who weren’t really helping out my own trade.

It wasn’t long before I was making a surplus of roughly 30,000 florins per year, and had reserves of about 350,000 florins. One key thing to remember, especially early on, is never create buildings in a province when it isn’t needed. When I start a campaign I write out the names of all my provinces and what I plan to do with them (i.e. build foot soldiers in one, archers in another, economics in a third, etc.). I then stick to that plan. If I have no more buildings to create for those types of units, I don’t create any more buildings in that province. The only exception to that rule is economic advancements. I will complete all economic advancements in every province, once I can afford to.

Just as a side note, if you do choose to play as the Byzantines, their island provinces make great shipbuilding territories. Once you have control of the waters around the islands, no one can launch an assault against them without sinking your fleet first, so you don’t need to maintain a large garrison. I would make sure you take out the Sicilians though. They will be a thorn in your side until you do. Once you take over Scicily, Malta, Sardinia and the forth island to the west (I can’t remember it’s name off hand), you will be capable of churning out an average of about 2 ships a year. It doesn’t take long to gain control of the seas at that rate.

Teutonic Knight

12-18-2003, 21:58

Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ Dec. 18 2003,13:53)]
Quote[/b] ]
Quote[/b] ]Preciselly http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
I once, with the Almohads, had +700000 florins in my reserves... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Oh, come on, Lord Aymar, you're pulling my leg now http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
HEHEHEHE http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Check this out:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/story/aymar%20de%20bois%20mauri%20sp%20campaign%20the%20hungarian%20front.jpg

It is about 70 years after the start of the war, so my finances hadn't recovered from the trade blocking... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I will try and upload an earlier picture with the 700000florins from an earlier savegame (before the war)... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

never had that many armies before

Shamus

12-18-2003, 22:22

Quote[/b] ]never had that many armies before

I second that. There are more armies in three of those front-line territories than I have in my whole empire right now. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

HawaiianHobbit

12-18-2003, 22:56

Quote[/b] (Shamus @ Dec. 18 2003,14:30)]Mbrasher1, I can understand your surprise at the florin numbers that some people put up.
I agree, once I get 25000florins a year I cant even spend them fast enough and by the end of the game I have 800000 in the reserves.

LittleGrizzly

12-19-2003, 00:04

for building huge money like they all say trade trade trade

important provinces tipoli constantinople (sp?) flanders one of the scandanavian provinces and ships an trading posts everywhere and you be rolling in your millions of florins

sicilians italians byzanitines and almohads always build ships and cause my english navy problems wipe them out

also i always make lots of farm and mine income and acumen is most important vice for my governors (dread second)

LittleGrizzly

12-19-2003, 00:06

edit: double post http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

Aymar de Bois Mauri

12-19-2003, 00:32

Quote[/b] ]never had that many armies before

Quote[/b] ]I second that. There are more armies in three of those front-line territories than I have in my whole empire right now.

Well, don't get surprised http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I always play with small unit size.
Each of those armies is only 480men MAX.
That's not really that much... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

DarkJester

12-19-2003, 04:26

Making money is easy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

http://www.angelfire.com/ex/darkjester/argonese.jpg

Voigtkampf

12-19-2003, 07:44

Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ Dec. 18 2003,12:53)]HEHEHEHE http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Check this out:
Oh...my...goodness http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

Are you playing on hard? I always play on expert and mostly with HRE, maybe that is the reason why I never get around to have that much money... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

On the other hand, I just looked up the year - it's 1418 Well, with Almohads and those relative smaller armies, you might had some surplus... I generally have a lot of income, but it's always very tight, since I tend to expand very qucikly, and I must pay attention well on what to build. I have always some 2000 florins of income after each year...

I don't understand the principles of trading all too well. I build ports whereever available, I improve farmlands, build merchants and mines, but since I'm constantly in war with someone (hey, they attacked first&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif I don't get around to keep many alliances, and aferwards the other kings won't hear a word from me. Is there something I'm missing? Or I'm I doing it all right and simply build too much armies? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

Edit: And i always play total domination...I just noticed that both screenshots had the GA symbols on them. Perhaps you earn more money that way?

PseRamesses

12-19-2003, 15:25

Quote[/b] (voigtkampf @ Dec. 18 2003,01:29)]Again, I play mostly with HRE and have always cash problems
Voightkampf
Playing HRE is a piece of cake. I usually do this:
1. Build military in Swabia, Switzerland, Franconia and Bavaria.
2. Maximun upgrade on cash-related buildings in all other buildings.
3. All coastal specializes in ship building upgrades.
4. All other inland provs i also upgrade to brothels, inns etc.
Get pumping out ships early, it will really make a difference. I also make sure having atleast 2000 fl. surplus each year and I don´t fill up the buildingrooster but rather go with going through all my provs each or every other year.
Good luck http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

Sun Tzui

12-19-2003, 15:50

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

Congrats to Aymar de Bois Mauri and DarkJester on your finantial prowesses in the game I'm impressed, although i can get a pretty good income myself i never saw that many armies in a game (like Aymar) or that much money like DarkJester (not with those few Provinces)...and Aymar you say you play with small unit size do you keep 1 army of each type of units or manage them individually?? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif

Ithaskar Fëarindel

12-19-2003, 16:56

Perhaps a new game end would be something in the lines:

You have reached 1,000,000 florins and have become the wonder of all merchants GAME OVER http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

You have reached an income of more than 50,000 florin per year You are the most economically efficient leader the world has ever seen. GAME OVER http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

On a 2nd note, looking at these, methinks any mod made should lower the amount of income for all goods.

Sun Tzui

12-19-2003, 17:51

Quote[/b] ]On a 2nd note, looking at these, methinks any mod made should lower the amount of income for all goods. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

OH NO Not that pls... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

Let modding stick to changing factions, and creating historical or fictional scenarios (unless you simultanioulsy eliminate province rebelions, that might balance things out).

LittleGrizzly

12-19-2003, 18:38

also another hint the start is the most important part of the game get yourself well ahead of the competition at the start (in terms of ships for trading and quality of units) and then you just gotta keep yourself ahead

if you find your constantly at war with everyone its probably because your so powerful once you become the most powerful faction everyone else seems to gang up on you so just get yourself ready to fight every faction (in terms of money) then quickly build up your armys (high quality troops) then total domination is mere steps away....

Voigtkampf

12-19-2003, 19:32

Quote[/b] (PseRamesses @ Dec. 19 2003,08:25)]
Quote[/b] (voigtkampf @ Dec. 18 2003,01:29)]Again, I play mostly with HRE and have always cash problems
Voightkampf
Playing HRE is a piece of cake. I usually do this:
1. Build military in Swabia, Switzerland, Franconia and Bavaria.
2. Maximun upgrade on cash-related buildings in all other buildings.
3. All coastal specializes in ship building upgrades.
4. All other inland provs i also upgrade to brothels, inns etc.
Get pumping out ships early, it will really make a difference. I also make sure having atleast 2000 fl. surplus each year and I don´t fill up the buildingrooster but rather go with going through all my provs each or every other year.
Good luck http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif
Well, all of that I already know, as you might have guessed, but for me it simply doesn't add up In other words, though I have rather big income at the very end of the game, I almost never have so much folrins in reserve But nevertheless, I still triumph, and that is what really matters... I hope http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

Aymar de Bois Mauri

12-20-2003, 04:02

Quote[/b] ]Making money is easy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
FANTASTIC, DarkJester http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif
BTW, wecome to the ORG http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Quote[/b] ]Oh...my...goodness http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

Are you playing on hard? I always play on expert and mostly with HRE, maybe that is the reason why I never get around to have that much money... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
No, NORMAL
It's probably easier to get more money this way... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Quote[/b] ]On the other hand, I just looked up the year - it's 1418 Well, with Almohads and those relative smaller armies, you might had some surplus...
Yes, that might explain it... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/flat.gif

Quote[/b] ] I generally have a lot of income, but it's always very tight, since I tend to expand very qucikly, and I must pay attention well on what to build. I have always some 2000 florins of income after each year...
When I'm at peace with everybody (not often http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ) I gain about 20000-30000 florins a year... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Quote[/b] ]I don't understand the principles of trading all too well. I build ports whereever available, I improve farmlands, build merchants and mines, but since I'm constantly in war with someone (hey, they attacked first I don't get around to keep many alliances, and aferwards the other kings won't hear a word from me. Is there something I'm missing? Or I'm I doing it all right and simply build too much armies?
Try these good tips:

Quote[/b] ]Voightkampf
Playing HRE is a piece of cake. I usually do this:
1. Build military in Swabia, Switzerland, Franconia and Bavaria.
2. Maximun upgrade on cash-related buildings in all other buildings.
3. All coastal specializes in ship building upgrades.
4. All other inland provs i also upgrade to brothels, inns etc.
Get pumping out ships early, it will really make a difference. I also make sure having atleast 2000 fl. surplus each year and I don´t fill up the buildingrooster but rather go with going through all my provs each or every other year.
Good luck

Quote[/b] ]And i always play total domination...I just noticed that both screenshots had the GA symbols on them. Perhaps you earn more money that way?

Don't think so... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

Aymar de Bois Mauri

12-20-2003, 04:12

In relating to SunTzui:

Quote[/b] ]Congrats to Aymar de Bois Mauri... ...I'm impressed
Thank you very much http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Quote[/b] ]...although i can get a pretty good income myself i never saw that many armies in a game (like Aymar)
Remember, SMALL UNIT SIZE: 480men MAX for each army. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Quote[/b] ]or that much money like DarkJester (not with those few Provinces)...
If you notice, he has the biggest trade money making provinces. And only a few armies... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Quote[/b] ]and Aymar you say you play with small unit size do you keep 1 army of each type of units or manage them individually??
All armies are balanced battle-capable armies, except for 2 or 3 with siege engines only.
I managed them all individually.
Yes, I know... ...I'm a FREAK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Aymar de Bois Mauri

12-20-2003, 04:21

Quote[/b] ]also another hint the start is the most important part of the game get yourself well ahead of the competition at the start (in terms of ships for trading and quality of units) and then you just gotta keep yourself ahead
Very true http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

Voigtkampf

12-20-2003, 08:15

Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ Dec. 19 2003,21:02)]Try these good tips:

Quote[/b] ]Voightkampf
Playing HRE is a piece of cake. I usually do this:
1. Build military in Swabia, Switzerland, Franconia and Bavaria.
2. Maximun upgrade on cash-related buildings in all other buildings.
3. All coastal specializes in ship building upgrades.
4. All other inland provs i also upgrade to brothels, inns etc.
Get pumping out ships early, it will really make a difference. I also make sure having atleast 2000 fl. surplus each year and I don´t fill up the buildingrooster but rather go with going through all my provs each or every other year.
Good luck
Now, where did I read that before? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

Actually, that is just about the way I do it all the time, with one exception: I don't have much ships, do they influence the income rating? Please, no guesses, yes or no if you know for sure, and to what extent? Anyone?

Last night, though I could not afford it because I had some unfinished work to attend to, I began playing M:TW again... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif Expert, total domination, took off with the Spanish in early. Surprisingly, my money situation was very positive, and I am completely sure that I would hit the money surplus you've been achieving by the end of the game Spanish are so easy, though the game says they are hard (and says that the HRE is moderate, while I find them the hardest http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif ), I had capable offspring http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif and massive income, and - check this out - played for 120 years without engaging anyone in war except the rebels, and than the Almohads attacked me as mere act of desperation because I crippled them with my spies causing rebellions everywhere With all of the alliances I kept (as HRE I get dumped in a sec&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif, massive ports, improved farmlands, merchants, I suppose nothing can go wrong.

Remarkable, it seems that I've been playing HRE too much...Actually, I haven't played any other faction within months and months But they are demanding game and, Iadmit, I simply love those Teutonic Knights http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Cruelsader

12-20-2003, 11:56

Quote[/b] (voigtkampf @ Dec. 20 2003,01:15)] Actually, that is just about the way I do it all the time, with one exception: I don't have much ships, do they influence the income rating? Please, no guesses, yes or no if you know for sure, and to what extent? Anyone?

They certainly influence your income: the more ships you have and further away they are from your ports the more you have to spend on upkeep. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif For example, a longship, that moves one sea region per turn, costs 15 florins in the sea region where you have a port, 30 in the next, 45 in the following and so on. It can get quite expensive especially when you have big stacks of ships far from your home ports. However, having several ships stacked seems to make AI less likely to start stupid trade wars. When it nevertheless starts such war you can win it with your stronger fleet.

The money you get from trade depends on the number and rarity of goods produced by the home port, on the level of the merchantman and on the number of allied or neutral ports it is connected to. You can easily check out (at least in VI MTW) the exact amounts by cliking on the name of the province in the income list - you will be shown in detail where the trade money comes from.

***
I play with 'hard' setting and I always build a decent trade network. I am short of funds only early in the game. It is important to assign high acumen rulers to rich trading ports, like Flanders or Antioch. This can make difference in thousands. I do not like to tax higher than normal, though, because it seems to greatly increase the likelihood of governors getting vices.

I have never reached 800 000, around 300 000 is the norm. (I am making no special effort to save florins either, the 300K is just the amount of money I have no real use for)

Voigtkampf

12-20-2003, 14:25

Quote[/b] (Cruelsader @ Dec. 20 2003,04:56)]They certainly influence your income: the more ships you have and further away they are from your ports the more you have to spend on upkeep. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif For example, a longship, that moves one sea region per turn, costs 15 florins in the sea region where you have a port, 30 in the next, 45 in the following and so on. It can get quite expensive especially when you have big stacks of ships far from your home ports. However, having several ships stacked seems to make AI less likely to start stupid trade wars. When it nevertheless starts such war you can win it with your stronger fleet.
Nice shot, but as the Germans tend to say slightly missed is lost as well http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

The ships, after you own words, don't have influence on the income, they have influence on the expenses

I was wondering if the ships have any influence on your trading income, but I dismissed the notion right after I actually read my own post. They are warships, after all, not merchant haulers

Quote[/b] ]The money you get from trade depends on the number and rarity of goods produced by the home port, on the level of the merchantman and on the number of allied or neutral ports it is connected to. You can easily check out (at least in VI MTW) the exact amounts by cliking on the name of the province in the income list - you will be shown in detail where the trade money comes from.

All well known, sorry Cruelsader, but there isn't anything I wasn't aware of already...

Although there is one thing: assigning titles. I always automanage that part, since it was always a drag to search for an appropriate candidate among thousands and thousands of soldiers... Maybe AI does a poor job on that one?

Aymar de Bois Mauri

12-20-2003, 14:33

Quote[/b] ]Although there is one thing: assigning titles. I always automanage that part, since it was always a drag to search for an appropriate candidate among thousands and thousands of soldiers... Maybe AI does a poor job on that one?
There you have it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
It does... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Shamus

12-20-2003, 17:25

A very poor job indeed. I got lazy last night and dropped the title to a new province on my stack of armies. I went in to check who had received the title, and discovered that a unit leader with 0 acumen had been given it. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif Normally I never give a provincial title to any unit leader with less than 5 acumen. I find that that unto itself makes a big difference in income. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Voigtkampf

12-20-2003, 18:11

Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ Dec. 20 2003,07:33)]There you have it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
She does... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
Err, she?

Lord Aymar, I believe you spend waaay too much time with your computer... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Voigtkampf

12-20-2003, 18:17

Quote[/b] (Shamus @ Dec. 20 2003,10:25)]A very poor job indeed. I got lazy last night and dropped the title to a new province on my stack of armies. I went in to check who had received the title, and discovered that a unit leader with 0 acumen had been given it. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif Normally I never give a provincial title to any unit leader with less than 5 acumen. I find that that unto itself makes a big difference in income. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Actually, I'm a plain, simple wardog, so I always tended to wage war and never bothered myself about economy that much. Though I supposed I would pull better off than the AI, I didn't think the ultimate difference would be so enormous

It is the sound of marching infantry, charging cavalry, firing catapults, clashing swords and spears and hissing arrows that drow my attention and highten my fever, not the musings of an accountant http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Aymar de Bois Mauri

12-20-2003, 18:22

Quote[/b] ]
Quote[/b] ]There you have it
She does...

Err, she?

Lord Aymar, I believe you spend waaay too much time with your computer...

Quirks of the Portuguese language... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
I'll explain:
In Portuguese AI = IA = Inteligência Artificial (female form), although it's a thing and not a male or female.
The Portuguese language, in most cases, associates female or male designations to objects.
Sometimes it bypasses the translation to English, like it did in the earlier post... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Aymar de Bois Mauri

12-20-2003, 18:25

Quote[/b] ]Actually, I'm a plain, simple wardog, so I always tended to wage war and never bothered myself about economy that much. Though I supposed I would pull better off than the AI, I didn't think the ultimate difference would be so enormous

It is the sound of marching infantry, charging cavalry, firing catapults, clashing swords and spears and hissing arrows that drow my attention and highten my fever, not the musings of an accountant
But a good King is more than a good warrior.
Remember Richard The Lion Heart? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Voigtkampf

12-20-2003, 19:31

Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ Dec. 20 2003,11:22)]Quirks of the Portuguese language... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
I'll explain:
In Portuguese AI = IA = Inteligência Artificial (female form), although it's a thing and not a male or female.
The Portuguese language, in most cases, associates female or male designations to objects.
Sometimes it bypasses the translation to English, like it did in the earlier post... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
Oh, reaaaaaally? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/flirt.gif

My better half always accuses me that I spent more time with my computer than I do with her - women, they always say such stuff - and I have, for a second, glimpsed a man who Truly loves his Inteligencia Artificial http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

Aymar de Bois Mauri

12-20-2003, 19:35

Quote[/b] ]My better half always accuses me that I spent more time with my computer than I do with her - women, they always say such stuff - and I have, for a second, glimpsed a man who Truly loves his Inteligencia Artificial http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

You naughty boy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

ROTFL http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Shamus

12-21-2003, 20:24

Quote[/b] (voigtkampf @ Dec. 20 2003,11:17)]
Quote[/b] (Shamus @ Dec. 20 2003,10:25)]A very poor job indeed. I got lazy last night and dropped the title to a new province on my stack of armies. I went in to check who had received the title, and discovered that a unit leader with 0 acumen had been given it. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif Normally I never give a provincial title to any unit leader with less than 5 acumen. I find that that unto itself makes a big difference in income. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Actually, I'm a plain, simple wardog, so I always tended to wage war and never bothered myself about economy that much. Though I supposed I would pull better off than the AI, I didn't think the ultimate difference would be so enormous

It is the sound of marching infantry, charging cavalry, firing catapults, clashing swords and spears and hissing arrows that drow my attention and highten my fever, not the musings of an accountant http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Ah yes, but with more money you could afford more of those armies you love to use, and attack more provinces. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Voigtkampf

12-21-2003, 21:47

I've been playing with the Spanish now, early, expert, total domination and realized just how much tougher the HRE is. With the Spanish, I pulled off the first 120 years without even fighting anyone except the rebels, and than I crushed the Almohads. I have a lot of alliances and no one dares attacking me. By clever assigning the governors with decent acumen provided me a lot of money, but even more came from the trade. If I were to wage war now, I would certainly lose perhaps almost half of my income Now I'm 150 years down the line, 115 000 florins in reserve and profits of some 10.000 florins a year… On expert The Spanish are a walk in the park compared with the Germans

Fortunately, I am not an idiot after all http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

But I'll never leave the AI to assign titles again http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

Flamininus

12-22-2003, 02:33

I'm going mental here reading all these tales of more florins than you know what to do with.

AD1356 as Almohads projected profits -1556

I'm just managing to keep my Empire ticking over when, lo and behold my profits take a steep dive after taking Flanders from some rebels.

I gotta go back and study the trade aspect of the game again. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

Aymar de Bois Mauri

12-22-2003, 02:58

Quote[/b] ]But I'll never leave the AI to assign titles again

Good to know http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif
The acumen of governors is REALLY important for profitability. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Quote[/b] ]I'm going mental here reading all these tales of more florins than you know what to do with.

AD1356 as Almohads projected profits -1556

I'm just managing to keep my Empire ticking over when, lo and behold my profits take a steep dive after taking Flanders from some rebels.

I gotta go back and study the trade aspect of the game again.
Welcome to the ORG, Flamininus http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Remember 3 main points for trade:

1- 1 ship minimum, in every sea region with tradable resources. No interruptions in trade line.
2- For inland trade provinces build only trading posts, for the sea regions build all other trading buildings available. The most profitable regions should have priority in construction.
3- 5 acumen minimum for governors. Enormous diference in trade profit...

Voigtkampf

12-22-2003, 07:40

Quote[/b] (Flamininus @ Dec. 21 2003,19:33)]I'm going mental here reading all these tales of more florins than you know what to do with.

AD1356 as Almohads projected profits -1556

I'm just managing to keep my Empire ticking over when, lo and behold my profits take a steep dive after taking Flanders from some rebels.

I gotta go back and study the trade aspect of the game again. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif
First of all, a warm welcome to Flamininus http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

I mostly ignored the aspects of trade and assigning titles, but if you want to earn money big time, here are the two most important things I learned the hard way http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/read.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

1. ALWAYS assign the titles yourself, search among your troops for a general with the highest acumen. 4 is good, more is better.

2. Restrain from war Seriously; if going into war, attack rebels, smaller factions that don't have many alliances. Why? The greatest share of your income comes from trading, and you trade only with your allies. If you attack someone with a strong support from other factions – or get attacked for that matter – you'll probably lose some alliances and, due to that, some serious income. My advice; stick to the strongest factions, since their provinces and trade provide you with all the necessary florins. Sure, it help your future opponent to gain strength as well, but oh… http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

Respected Lord Aymar stated that having ships built in your seas is important for the trade lines, yet I haven't been able to get an affirmative answer to that. I thought for a while that this is also a possible factor in trading, but have dismissed it on ground that these were, after all, warships and not traders. I'll look up in the Dungeons for a definitive answer.

Quokka

12-22-2003, 07:47

Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ Dec. 22 2003,08:58)]1- 1 ship minimum, in every sea region with tradable resources. No interruptions in trade line.
2- For inland trade provinces build only trading posts, for the sea regions build all other trading buildings available. The most profitable regions should have priority in construction.
3- 5 acumen minimum for governors. Enormous diference in trade profit...
I'd amend this list slighlty.

1) At least one ship in every sea region regardless of tradeble resources. The amount you earn from trade is determined by the number of Ports that you can access wether or not those Ports have tradegoods in their regions. If they do then you get a bonus of 20% of the value of the tradegood. (Import value = Export value x 20%)
More ships are better, for defense obviously, and to protect against storms breaking the trade link.

2) Pretty much exactly right. I mod the trade buildings so that Merchants and higher require a Port. This stops the AI wasting time and money building them in provinces that have no hope of being profitable.

3) 5 Acumen governors are very rare and get rarer the harder the difficulty. I use 4 Acumen governors as the standard. Assigning decent governors and reassigning them if they get Prideful will make a huge difference to your treasury.

NEVER let the AI auto-assign governors. The worst mistake that it makes involves those provinces that have titles with command stars. The AI assign those titles based on command rating before Acumen, so it will assign Constantinople to a 0 Acumen 3* before a 9 Acumen 0*. The same is true for the Admiral of the Fleet etc and will not necessarily assign the title to the proper general. It could give the 2* to your 4* Good Runner instead of to a 3* Expert Attacker.
The titles with Acumen bonus are usually given the general with the highest Acumen wether he is a governor or not. This is why you will see the AI with a 6 Acumen Chamberlain of the Palace with no governorship so the title is wasted.

Aymar de Bois Mauri

12-22-2003, 15:27

Perfect correction, Quokka http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Voigtkampf

12-22-2003, 15:44

Quote[/b] (Quokka @ Dec. 22 2003,00:47)]1) At least one ship in every sea region regardless of tradeble resources. The amount you earn from trade is determined by the number of Ports that you can access wether or not those Ports have tradegoods in their regions. If they do then you get a bonus of 20% of the value of the tradegood. (Import value = Export value x 20%)
More ships are better, for defense obviously, and to protect against storms breaking the trade link.
Finally, some real clarity, and hard numbers. Thank you

the_holy_knight

12-22-2003, 22:24

the most i have evr had in the bank is about 133,000 florins but i am a noob and that is with no trading in the year 1333 http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif And Richard the Lionheart was a bad king because he bankrupted England. And King John is seen as a bad king but he did tremendously with the finances of the country even though he signed the Magna Carta
MERRY CHRISTMAS http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/flirt.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/argue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/snowman.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/birthday.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/flat.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/handball.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/read.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/santa.gif

Satyr

12-23-2003, 00:32

There are two items that may be misrepresented here.

I don't think having ships in zones that do not have trade goods gains you any income. If there are no trade goods in the other guys province, or he doesn't have a port there, you will gain no money by putting a ship there.

Earning lots of florins does NOT require you to be a pacifistic turtler. I am VERY aggressive in how I play. I pretty much am always at war with someone. I am careful to not go to war with my major trading partners unless I want their good trading provinces for my own though. I always have vast quantities of money in the bank. I do trade with the best of them. It is quite reasonable to finish a game in 150 years and end with in excess of 500,000 florins in the bank

Voigtkampf

12-23-2003, 09:00

Quote[/b] (Satyr @ Dec. 22 2003,17:32)]There are two items that may be misrepresented here.

I don't think having ships in zones that do not have trade goods gains you any income. If there are no trade goods in the other guys province, or he doesn't have a port there, you will gain no money by putting a ship there.

Earning lots of florins does NOT require you to be a pacifistic turtler. I am VERY aggressive in how I play. I pretty much am always at war with someone. I am careful to not go to war with my major trading partners unless I want their good trading provinces for my own though. I always have vast quantities of money in the bank. I do trade with the best of them. It is quite reasonable to finish a game in 150 years and end with in excess of 500,000 florins in the bank
Respectable Lord Satyr,
there is import and there is export. If the province you reach with your ships doesn't have any tradable goods, than you can still import your own goods from any of your provinces that has anything desirable for export.

On the other hand, I cannot neither confirm nor deny the statement that you cannot trade with a province with no port in it, and there was no clear and specific answer to that aspect in this thread. I will check upon this in the near future and report the results.