Warrior Monks / Yari Samurai Army ?

[Draksen]

Warrior monks seem to be very effective
units... The only unit that can defeat them
seems to be HC.

My question : If I build an army
with only WM and some YS to protect them
vs cavalry, how can it be defeated ?

Thank you for anwers.

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http://www.geocities.com/draksen/doragon.JPG

[Yabusama]

Any unit can be beaten even monks. All units no matter what they are, will rout if placed in a dangerous position. I have routed and been routed when my superior troops have been flanked by the enemy. So to answer your question I would engage you head on with naginata to stop your forward momentum and then flank you with No-Dachi or cavalry. Your monks and Yari will flee like the cowards they are. Remember I don't have to kill you to win a battle, just make you flee.

Oh well that's my thought on the matter

[Kanzaki]

1) Shot by archers
2) Shot by Teppo (gunners)
3) Harrassed by CA
4) Naginata/anything- send the Naginata to hold the line against the WM front, and flank/rear charge teh WM with anything- YA are a cheap way, and such a nice feeling... Especially if you play campaign and you go Christian.
5) If your enemy has all WM, but they have better Honor or a better Taisho
6) Infinite other ways- remember, it's all based on how well you know your enemy, know yourself, and the terrain. Overall, I think balance is best. Your all WM army will be shot to pieces by a missile heavy player.

That's my two koku!

[Draksen]

Thank you for Answers !

In fact, I have asked this question
cause I have often seen players who use
only WM or No Dachi ... beginners
I thought, but difficult to beat if not
ready for such a fight!

I have seen the same beginner "tactic"
in AOK with frank Paladins...




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http://www.geocities.com/draksen/doragon.JPG

[Katasaki Hirojima]

LOL,Frank Paladins,ah..those were the days,the AoK days.

I like to use Monks and Teppo.Teppo annhiliates Naginata,cause they so slow that they get shot to peices before they can get close.I whould keep a few units of Yari Cavalry around,to kill routers and go after any undefended unit,as well as keep enemy cav at bay.YS are toooo slow.

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"I maintain none the less that Yin-Tang Dualism can bo overcome.With sufficent enlightment,we can give substance to any distinction:Mind without body,north without south,pleasure without pain.Renember,enlightment is a function of will power,not of physical strength."-Shang-ji Yang,essays on mind and matter.

[Rob]

My normal army consists of Yari Samurai (in hold formation, to engage the enemy), No-Dachi (to flank), Musketeers (to shoot the enemy to pieces), Yari Cav (for flanking and rout chasing) and Cav Archers (for concentrated fire on the enemy Taisho).

I find that this gives me good balance. If my enemy has cav, my Yaris make mincemeat of them. If he has muskets I can use mine against his. If he monk-rushes, my Yaris will hold him while my No-Dachis flank him. I don't use Naginata because they are expensive and too damn slow.

The problem with Monk/No-Dachi armies is that they cost a fortune. My Yari Sam are cheap and do a good job and so do my muskets. Often, monk-heavy players go out with less than 16 units, making it much easier to flank them.

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MizuRob Hojo
Honour to clan Takiyama

[Draksen]

arigatoo gozaimasu ga,
watashi wa chotto shitsumon ga aru n desu...
(thank you but I have a little question)

Rob,
Do you think that you can win with YS against
WM (same army price) ?

With 5000 koku for example, your opponent can make 10 WM units, and you 25 YS units...
Is it possible to win ?
(should I mix them everytime with archers?)

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http://www.geocities.com/draksen/doragon.JPG

[Vanya]

There is a 16 unit max on the field at a time. If used properly, I think your 16 YA *could* beat the 10 WM since their honor would be higher and they would have more numbers. You would probably have to have some of them in hold formation to make em last a litte longer against those holy men though to give the rest time to flank.

[The Black Ship]

I wrote a battlefield report about being monkie rushed a week or two ago, it will explain how to defeat a rush...admittedly by an unimaginative foe in my example, but still pertinent to the discussion.

I believe it was in the Shadowkill vs Magy thread.

O.K. I went and got it for you:

The two armies met on the plains of Totomi. Rivals to the core, their differing philosopies were readily apparent once the fog of war was lifted and battle enjoined! The Gaijin General Ship Of Fear employed a well-balanced mix of forces, with a strong contingent of Teppo ashigaru to the fore-stiffened by samurai compatriots holding Yari spears. To either flank were positioned samurai armed with large No-dachi swords, and buddhist monks armed with naginata- carrying their small shrines. Backing the center forces were two units of archers, and the great Gaijin-Daimyo himself, ironically clad in the wardrobe of a Buddhist Monk! His honor was high.
The opposing force was diametrically different. Where Ship employed specialist units the Rival settled upon a monochromatic approach...he emptied all the Temples of his homeland bringing the whole of his host, regardless of their individual level of skill and honour! Surely, he thought, no man can deny the religious zeal of such a force!

The Rival charged as a mindless mass... screams of "Namu Amida Butsu" filled the air!!!

Ship calmly deployed his improved arquesbusque-armed Teppo in ranks of three, to attain a rolling volley effect, and raked the leading units relentlessly. The archers, with their greater range, shot deep into the following ranks. The Rival was helpless to counter these tactics, but consoled himself with the promise of violent retribution against these impudent ashigaru! When it became clear that the Rival was closing in on his Teppo, Ship withdrew his gunners behind the rigid formation of Yari-armed samurai, then rapidly redeployed the Teppo to provide covering fire.

The first wave fell upon the stead-fast Yari, held firmly in place by orders from their General. Seeing a numerical advantage The Rival continued to pour in his units to the center, thinking "If I can only reach his General, all will be won"! The Yari held valiantly, while the archers and Teppo poured in the lead. Still, the Yari were only flesh not Kami, and began too waver!

Suddenly, as if out of a vision, the flank's of Ship's army began to pinch in the flanks of the Rival. The cream of the Gaijin-led army were in the wings not the center! It became a race for Ship's General, who would win...the Rival with his fanatical single-minded determination, or Ship's renowned troops on the flanks? First a trickle...then a rill...then a flood of Sohei start to run! The weaker men of the Rival's army were unable to take the strain of such bloody combat, but his core of loyal followers remained. Ship then decided to diregard the flight of the Rival's weak-willed monks, and instead concentrate on circumvillating the Rival in a wall of steel!


The rest is as they say...History

P.S. sorry to wax poetic, but I couldn't wait for the next installment of Obake's story! Surely Magy and Shadow used much more diverse tactics!


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Niger Navis Navis Sesquiculus ShipOfFear



[This message has been edited by The Black Ship (edited 12-21-2000).]

[Slyspy]

Unit honour makes a significant difference to the performance and staying power of any unit. Just like viagra! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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"Put 'em in blue coats, put 'em in red coats, the bastards will run all the same!"