Almo shock troops

[Shamus]

Just a quick question, which unit do you think would make a better shock troop: Ghazi Infantry, or AUM’s? Would those be the best shock troops for the Almos? It just occurred to me that I never really bothered to pay attention to which units are good shock troops. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Quokka]

They do different jobs, but in general the AUMs are what you want especially from Granada. They are better than FMAA and can even better CMAA if from Granada. They are very cheap at 200 Fl and good against anyone except Cav.

Ghazis get better later in the game when their Armour Piercing bonus really starts to add up. They are fast and make excellent flankers but not the best head-on shock troops. Their woeful defence means they die to easily for that. Its been said before but they are basically Muslim Fire-and-Forget missiles. They will usually destroy the unit they face, but die themselves. Keep an eye on them they are impetuous.

[Jeanne d'arc]

Impetuous , what does that mean in general? I been playing MTW for so long now but never really payed attention to what it means?

[mercian billman]

Impetious just means that they may charge without orders.

[Oaty]

Don't forget Arab infantry not as good as AUM's but can fair much better in the desert. I don't take Arab infantry out of the desert except when direly needed and you may find they will do better in a desert battle due to fatigue

[Martok]

Quote[/b] (oaty @ Dec. 18 2003,20:38)]Don't forget Arab infantry not as good as AUM's but can fair much better in the desert. I don't take Arab infantry out of the desert except when direly needed and you may find they will do better in a desert battle due to fatigue
I'll second that Ghazis definitely have somewhat better staying power out in the sands; whereas the AUM almost seem like they were custom-made for European battles. I've always kind of wondered if CA did that as a game-balancing feature.....

Desert battles aside, however, I'll go with AUM any day of the week. I know they're officially classified as a "peasant" unit, but they're really more like medium heavy infantry. Ghazis are still definitely useful, and I usually have at least 1-2 units in every army; but AUM generally form the backbone of my military, particularly in the Early period. All the other factions (especially the Catholic ones) don't really have anything that can stack up against them until later on in the game.

[Shamus]

Interesting. That does bring up another question though. While the Almos seem to have decent infantry early on in the game, I haven’t noticed any strong units for later on. Do the Almos tend to become a weaker faction unit wise, later on in the game?

[Brutal DLX]

Yes, they don't get shiny new stuff, to augment your forces, it's good to include the best available crossbow missile troops and try to keep an edge by including gunpowder units to your forces first.
You will have to dominate by numbers and good generalship, as in Late your units really don't match up with Catholics anymore at equal valour levels.

[All_the_Sultan's_horses]

I have to disagree with that last recommendation. Gunpowder troops are almost useless, if not a downright liability. Crossbows are a good missile troop, but certainly no shock troop. The best available shock troops to the Almohads are Ghulam cavalry, which really show their weakness vis-à-vis Catholic knights. The answer is to build more of them, as they are considerably cheaper and require less investment to get(less tech buildings), and to handle them differently. Unlike knights, you can't charge Ghulam into combat and just leave them there. They are best in the charge, and hence should charge from a flank/rear, retreat and charge again and again until the enemy is broken. Yes, in pulling back you will lose some. But then Ghulam are cheap. Also, this trick will only work on an enemy already engaged to the front. But that is where the Almohad advantage in numbers comes in. It is also the ONLY way I know of defeating, say, Chivalric or Late Royal Knights(Ghazi die like flies even if they charge these from the flanks or rear).

[Brutal DLX]

I didn't recommend using gunpowder units as shock troops, but rather adding them as support troops, in which role they are neither useless nor liable. If you are unsure about how to use gunpowder troops in an efficient way, I'm sure there is some good advice in frogbeastegg's guide.

[Shamus]

With the amount of money I have, I have been making about 4 or 5 units of Ghulam bodyguards per 16 unit army. Because I have two provinces constantly pumping out well armored and weaponed bodyguards (and a few other provinces capable of producing lower-end bodyguards), I am able to replace them faster than I loose them.

I had one hell of a time dealing with Varagian guards for the first time last night. I have played with them before with great success, but never against them. The enemy had three units of them, which they sent at my front lines of Nubian spearmen. I immediately began a flanking maneuver with my AUM’s and Ghulam bodyguards, figuring my spearmen could hold the Varagians until I had completed flanking. I hadn’t even gotten my men into position before the enemy had broken through my lines and had my spearmen and crossbowmen running for their mothers.

The next time the Byzantines launched an attack I replaced the spearmen I usually use, with AUM’s. I replaced my crossbows with Arabilists (sp?) and had a row spear throwers. I charged my row of AUM’s downhill against the attacking group of Varagians and Byzantine infantry, and already had my flanking underway. It wasn’t long before I had torn through their ranks and sent them running.

It was through shear numbers I was able to achieve victory. A one on one fight with a Varagian guard is going to be messy.
With the amount of money I have, I have been making about 4 or 5 units of Ghulam bodyguards per 16 unit army. Because I have two provinces constantly pumping out well armored and weaponed bodyguards (and a few other provinces capable of producing lower-end bodyguards), I am able to replace them faster than I loose them.

I had one hell of a time dealing with Varagian guards for the first time last night. I have played with them before with great success, but never against them. The enemy had three units of them, which they sent at my front lines of Nubian spearmen. I immediately began a flanking maneuver with my AUM’s and Ghulam bodyguards, figuring my spearmen could hold the Varagians until I had completed flanking. I hadn’t even gotten my men into position before the enemy had broken through my lines and had my spearmen and crossbowmen running for their mothers.

The next time the Byzantines launched an attack I replaced the spearmen I usually use, with AUM’s. I replaced my crossbows with Arabilists (sp?) and had a row spear throwers. I charged my row of AUM’s downhill against the attacking group of Varagians and Byzantine infantry, and already had my flanking underway. It wasn’t long before I had torn through their ranks and sent them running.

It was through shear numbers I was able to achieve victory. A one on one fight with a Varagian guard is going to be messy. But I'm sure you all already knew that.

I am not able to produce gunpowder units yet, but will be soon. I shall go see what frogbeastegg has to say on the subject.