Defensive Positioning

[twjunkie]

My question pertains to how does where you place your troops affect moral? I have found that if I place my defending army close to the back edge of the allowable starting zone to take use of better terrain, ie: hills, they tend to break and rout much faster than if I set them near the front of starting zone.
Does placing them there actually affect the moral of the army as it seems you have given up to much territory or is it just me?

[Oaty]

I think it makes no difference on morale. I've learned that when you camp as soon as the unit routes it is immediately in the no recovery zone where you can't rally the unit. Considering this you have a unit that is routing even though it is running off the map all your other units get a morale hit plus if your in a corner they all bunch up and all run for the corner. I play out in the open usually and when a unit routes they typically run by or in front of the general and rally saving the unit for use or to be withdrawn so it doesnt route again. Looks like the one down side of camping

[Lord Rom]

Well said.
Rom

[ichi]

Yes, being near the edge is not a penalty in and of itself, but there is no chance for a routing unit to rally. Also, I understand that there is also a penalty for being too crowded.

ichi

[Ludens]

Quote[/b] (ichi @ Dec. 20 2003,02:08)]Yes, being near the edge is not a penalty in and of itself, but there is no chance for a routing unit to rally. Also, I understand that there is also a penalty for being too crowded.
Which leads to annoying situations of your perfectly placed units moving away to make more space (this has nothing to do with morale).

Stay in position No Don't Don't Aargh

Damn, this game is bad for my heart http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]being near the edge is not a penalty in and of itself
There is, however, an advantage:
Enemy fatigue is increased, specially on foot units.
Best situation is after the first wave is broken. The following reinforcements have to travel all the way across the map. They reach my troops exhausted and are, therefore, easier to rout... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Voigtkampf]

Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ Dec. 20 2003,11:47)]There is, however, an advantage:
Enemy fatigue is increased, specially on foot units.
Best situation is after the first wave is broken. The following reinforcements have to travel all the way across the map. They reach my troops exhausted and are, therefore, easier to rout... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Yes, sir, marching those few extra tiles sure does put some achin' in that poor polygon's ol' bones http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Frankly, I have placed my units on the edge of the map for the same reason few times, but every time I did it I felt kind of: Oh, well, if I'm going to get kicked, at least they'll have a long walk to get me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]Yes, sir, marching those few extra tiles sure does put some achin' in that poor polygon's ol' bones
Don't be sarcastic. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
I've never had any problems, in that situation, with routing units within my army... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif




Quote[/b] ]Frankly, I have placed my units on the edge of the map for the same reason few times, but every time I did it I felt kind of: Oh, well, if I'm going to get kicked, at least they'll have a long walk to get me
Nope. No problems whatsoever... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[Voigtkampf]

Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ Dec. 20 2003,12:05)]Don't be sarcastic. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
I've never had any problems, in that situation, with routing units within my army... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

*poor voigtkampf senses another possible vice coming up*

It was a funny way to say that you are right Guess it lost something in translation... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

And as for putting my soldiers at the end of the map, I do that as a last resort, or should I say a last, futile attempt to gain some tiny advantage

Have you been eating those mushrooms again? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ] http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

*poor voigtkampf senses another possible vice coming up*

It was a funny way to say that you are right Guess it lost something in translation...
Sorry. i didn't get that... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif



Quote[/b] ]Have you been eating those mushrooms again? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
Huuuuuuuummmmmm... ...not lately. ...I think http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Voigtkampf]

Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ Dec. 20 2003,12:15)]
Quote[/b] ]Have you been eating those mushrooms again? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
Huuuuuuuummmmmm... ...not lately. ...I think http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
Mushroom Samba, that's all I'll say... Saturday night and I have tons of work to do... And I'm spending my time browsing the coolest forum on the face of this earth

And when I get offline, I'll probably go and play more M:TW instead finishing up my open stuff...

Oh, boy, I would kill for a few mushrooms now http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]Saturday night and I have tons of work to do... And I'm spending my time browsing the coolest forum on the face of this earth

And when I get offline, I'll probably go and play more M:TW instead finishing up my open stuff...
I believe you're gonna regret it tomorrow... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Voigtkampf]

And I KNOW you are right http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[Court Jester]

twjunkie, I agree with oaty -- I think the only real problem with setting up at the back is if a unit breaks, once it routs into the red zone, it's gone. I lost a battle like that once -- a group of impetuous highland warriors who were placed behind my defensive ring of spearmen charged when I wasn't looking -- the attacking Kats chewed them alive within seconds, and they routed through back through my low-morale Chivalric Spearmen. Next thing I knew EVERYBODY had routed, and battle over. Especially frustrating since I probably would have won the battle otherwise.

Now I'll only set up a defence at the very back if it's by far and away the best defensive position offered.

[Papewaio]

I think you will find that there is a morale penalty for fighting uphill.

Essentially when your army knows they have a military advantage (some sort of bonus to their attack/defense or numbers) they have a better morale.

[Ashen]

Remember also that you cannot move units onto the edge of the battlefield. This means that your opponent cannot either, giving you a much tighter defensive line. If on a hill, thats a major advantage you have, especially since your archers will be able to fire without penalties and your front line get a higher ground bonus.

Use hills. You know it makes sense.

[Bezalel]

This is a bit off topic, but your talk of mushrooms reminded me of a hilarious convo between some of my friends.

Pat: Richard, do you know Mary Jane?
Richard: Yes, erm..I mean no.
Pat: You slut

[Voigtkampf]

I believe that there is a -2 moral penalty when fighting uphill, as well as decreased attack and speed values for those going upwards and increased values for those fighting down the slope, and of course, the missiles on the hill have greater range, but we actually spoke only of placing your units on the edge of the map, not on the hill.

Since the times of Iron Maiden we all know that it's best to run for the hills, for one reason or another.

Also, since as we are mentioning uphill, there is another penalty when a unit gets tired, I believe it's -3 for tired, -6 for very tired and -8 for exhausted, so it's better to let them walk up a longer distance since they'll get out of air much sooner than your troopers.

[Gregoshi]

Welcome aboard Jester. Thanks for not hanging out in the back of these forums - it is not a good defensive position. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]Since the times of Iron Maiden we all know that it's best to run for the hills, for one reason or another.

ROTFL http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif