Rebellious provinces

[Shamus]

I was wondering if anyone knew which provinces are the rebellious ones. I am aware of Portugal, Scotland, Ireland and Sicily, but wasn’t sure if there are any others.

As a side question, roughly how many people do you usually keep garrisoned in these provinces? Right now I have Portugal, Sicily and Scotland, and in each province I have taxes set to very low and a garrison of about 800 men in each. I know it is probably overkill, but I have seen the kind of armies that can make up the rebellions (especially in Portugal) and am in no mood to make room for those uprisings.

[ichi]

Maybe Arabia also. I'm suspicious of Prussia and Finland, but need more proof.


Quote[/b] ]Right now I have Portugal, Sicily and Scotland, and in each province I have taxes set to very low and a garrison of about 800 men in each.

I keep 200 peasants, 60 archers, 60 swords, 40 cav, and a few odds and ends (you know those units that you get through bribery or for some reasons don't want to or can't rebuild) in these unruly provinces, with taxes set to normal. Two spies, an assassin, a Bishop, border forts and other happy buildings, and a Governor with a happiness (and/or a dread) Virtue.

ichi

[The_Emperor]

Lithuania and the surrounding area is especially rebellious and is the main reason why Novgorod is rarely a world power.

My experience of Sicilyand Arabia is that they are no different than a normal province.

Portugal, Scotland and Lithuania are the worst of all in my eyes... Everything else seems rather the same to me.

[Shamus]

I’ve noticed that even if I keep loyalty at over 150%, they still rebel from time to time. Will a 200% loyalty guarantee there will be no rebellions in rebellious provinces, or do you just have to pile on the troops and hope for the best?

[ichi]

Just make sure that you hit the shift key prior to ending each turn. Green provinces are ok, yellow and red are not.

ichi

[Jeanne d'arc]

Yes also the island provinces around crete have caused me trouble in the past, just keep building structures in those provinces, the population will love u for it.

[Voigtkampf]

As above, the toughest ones are Lithuania and Portugal, sometimes Prussia is a pain too... In matter a fact, Portugal makes me want to jump out my skin I have a lot of troops there, spies, assassins, bishops and still their loyalty is rather poor, so I have to reduce taxes every now and then.

But then I get my inquisitors and put them to some serious work... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Hetman_Koronny]

*bows*

Livonia (sp?) has been almost as rebellious as Portugal in my experience.

If I can I keep 0 (zero) troops in the provinces which rebel often and once they rebel I send a neighbourhood army to deal with them. I do it for the sake of training my generals and troops. That might be a little cheesy, but only a little http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif.

*bows*

[scudknight]

I had 100 peasants and a 4 star royal knight garrisoned in Ile De France with a fortress at 120% happiness in 1385 and the Hungarians reappeared in that province with 4000+ men. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif unfortunatley I had my armies moving east/southeast in a line past the prussia border and took a while for me to eliminate them. Did'nt like that set of events one bit. But I've got 3 cogs in every water province and I hold the pope's lands for the time being so noone is really a threat at this point. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Bevan of Hertfordshire]

Quote[/b] (Shamus @ Dec. 19 2003,13:57)]I’ve noticed that even if I keep loyalty at over 150%, they still rebel from time to time. Will a 200% loyalty guarantee there will be no rebellions in rebellious provinces, or do you just have to pile on the troops and hope for the best?
I read somewhere that bandits do that randomly but they are technically not rebels

[Norseman]

Each province has a rebel-value tied to it in the startpos.txt file; the higher the value, the harder it is to control the province. IIRC the highest posible value is 10.

From campmap\startpos\EARLY.txt - VI v2.01
Ireland;1
Khazar;1
Lithuania;3
Livonia;4
Pomerania;1
Portugal;4
Prussia;2
Scotland;2
Serbia;1
The rest;0

These numbers may vary in HIGH.txt and LATE.txt

Some other factors are also important, like your factions religion vs the dominant religion of the province, as well as governor V&V etc.

[Leet Eriksson]

ARRRGGGHHH the portugese rebel scumARRRGGHHHH

they are a REAL pain,A REAL PAINThey will rebel and rebel and rebel until the poor unlucky faction you are playing is literally destroyed while you send in hordes and hordes of your well trained troops,just to be wasted by the peasant scum,mark my word,THEY WILL MAKE YOUR LIFE A LIVING HELL

Infact in several of my campaigns,most notably Almohades,British,Spanish and Byzantine,they almost made me lose a major war against opposing factions just becuase i'm trying to conquer them,i sent like a 2000 man army,and for the next 10 years they whittled it down to 200 with their never ending hordes of spearmen and peasants,sometimes they also get cavalry for no apparent reason

[Red Harvest]

Be wary of the "save" loyalty bug. Loyalty is not displayed properly after you reload a save (until you play the next turn.) Typically after reloading a save, the actual loyalty is 10 to 25% less than that displayed--at least on expert. You can get some really nasty rebellions if you don't know about this. I suspect this is because some loyalty modifiers carried from turn to turn are left out of the display calculation for the first turn of a reload. I mentally note my lowest two provinces loyalty before saving and exiting so that I can account for the error on reload. This allows me more latitude in running loyalty down to a true 100% so that I can get more troops into action elsewhere without any risk of rebellion.

There are also some increased probabilities of rebellion when you allow loyalty to approach 100% during a siege (not after a reload). I believe what is happening is that the besieger losses result in the computer recalculating loyalty after the attrition but before doing the rebellion check. If the result is nnything less than 100% it is a guarranteed rebellion on expert. I think the same may happen after fighting off some sort of invasion in a province you are besieging as well, but I've not been able to document them (although I have suspected it a few times.)

[Game Over!!!]

Faisal, if you want to stop Portugal from rebellion every other year, try keeping 5 to 6 spies in that province...works like a charm every single time.
Since I started putting 5 to 6 spies in those 'hard to please' provinces the rebellions stopped.
Right now I only have 266 men in Portugal with 5 spies and my loyalty rating is 193%, taxes set on normal (I'm Byz). http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Funky Phantom]

I had an odd problem in an older version of MTW (i forget what version but it was pre-VI) where i seemingly overfilled one of my own provinces with spies and they ended up causing a rebellion http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[Voigtkampf]

Quote[/b] (faisal @ Dec. 21 2003,18:20)]ARRRGGGHHH the portugese rebel scumARRRGGHHHH

they are a REAL pain,A REAL PAINThey will rebel and rebel and rebel until the poor unlucky faction you are playing is literally destroyed while you send in hordes and hordes of your well trained troops,just to be wasted by the peasant scum,mark my word,THEY WILL MAKE YOUR LIFE A LIVING HELL

Infact in several of my campaigns,most notably Almohades,British,Spanish and Byzantine,they almost made me lose a major war against opposing factions just becuase i'm trying to conquer them,i sent like a 2000 man army,and for the next 10 years they whittled it down to 200 with their never ending hordes of spearmen and peasants,sometimes they also get cavalry for no apparent reason
Yes, those Portuguese fellas are real annoyance, aren't they?

But also a good training ground for your grand inquisitors if you are a catholic faction…

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

faisal http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif


Quote[/b] ]ARRRGGGHHH the portugese rebel scumARRRGGHHHH

You'll pay for this http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif



JOKE http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif




Quote[/b] ]they are a REAL pain,A REAL PAINThey will rebel and rebel and rebel until the poor unlucky faction you are playing is literally destroyed while you send in hordes and hordes of your well trained troops,just to be wasted by the peasant scum,mark my word,THEY WILL MAKE YOUR LIFE A LIVING HELL

Infact in several of my campaigns,most notably Almohades,British,Spanish and Byzantine,they almost made me lose a major war against opposing factions just becuase i'm trying to conquer them,i sent like a 2000 man army,and for the next 10 years they whittled it down to 200 with their never ending hordes of spearmen and peasants,sometimes they also get cavalry for no apparent reason
We're quite something, right? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif








voigtkampf http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif


Quote[/b] ]Yes, those Portuguese fellas are real annoyance, aren't they?

How could you?? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif



Quote[/b] ]But then I get my inquisitors and put them to some serious work...


Quote[/b] ]But also a good training ground for your grand inquisitors if you are a catholic faction…
Oh, my poooooor countrymen... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif



JOKE http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[TheSilverKnight]

Quote[/b] (Norseman @ Dec. 21 2003,14:35)]Each province has a rebel-value tied to it in the startpos.txt file; the higher the value, the harder it is to control the province. IIRC the highest posible value is 10.

From campmap\startpos\EARLY.txt - VI v2.01
Ireland;1
Khazar;1
Lithuania;3
Livonia;4
Pomerania;1
Portugal;4
Prussia;2
Scotland;2
Serbia;1
The rest;0

These numbers may vary in HIGH.txt and LATE.txt

Some other factors are also important, like your factions religion vs the dominant religion of the province, as well as governor V&V etc.
where in the file did you find this information?? When I looked I could not find it. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif please share where in the file you found this. Thanks

[Ashen]

personally, in the past at least, ive had most trouble with ireland and portugal, but rarely Lithuania/Livonia. Generally cos I play Russian a lot tho, and those provinces are generally close to my seat of power and my King/Prince, hence little trouble.

Worst ive had so far really is with the spanish, I steamrolled through the almohads, Egyptians, Byz, And Turks, and ended up with Khazar and a few more provinces, and a few north of constantinople, yet nothing in europe past Navarre and Aragon, and a Granada based King.

Just imagine the revolts. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif goes my empire.

[Voigtkampf]

Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ Dec. 28 2003,18:01)]voigtkampf http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif


Quote[/b] ]Yes, those Portuguese fellas are real annoyance, aren't they?

How could you?? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif



Quote[/b] ]But then I get my inquisitors and put them to some serious work...


Quote[/b] ]But also a good training ground for your grand inquisitors if you are a catholic faction…
Oh, my poooooor countrymen... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif



JOKE http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
Nothing personal, Lord Aymar... They simply didn't know better than to mess with me and dare not to display 200 % loyalty on very high tax rate, the least I demand from my loyal subjects… Now guess why I can't bring any armies in Protugal? Can't drop it in the province from all those "fiery" inquisitors and their older brothers

As a side note, is it true that the Portugese people have displayed so much aggression towards their conquerors in the medieval past, before setting themselves free and becoming an impressive power themselves? Because I find some provinces in M:TW to have a "rebellious" tag where they really deserve none, and some who deserve are quite the pacifists… Oh, dear…

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]Nothing personal, Lord Aymar...
I was just joking, Lord voigtkampf http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif




Quote[/b] ]Now guess why I can't bring any armies in Protugal? Can't drop it in the province from all those "fiery" inquisitors and their older brothers
NO http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
Really??? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif




Quote[/b] ]As a side note, is it true that the Portugese people have displayed so much aggression towards their conquerors in the medieval past, before setting themselves free and becoming an impressive power themselves?
Yeap It's true.

The Portuguese are a varied mixture of several invaders that moved into the Iberian Peninsula throughout the ages.

If we skip the Greek, Fenician and Carthaginien traders that formed trading posts on some areas of the Iberian coast (specially Southeastern Iberia), the main ethnic influences are:

-The Iberos (Iberians);
They descended from some of the Neolithic Civilizations that spread througout Europe (Megalithic Civilization and Civilization of Domed Potery).

-The Celts;
The rebelious Lusitanos (Lusitanians) were a group of Celtiberian tribes (mostly sheperds), concentrated in Central mountain range of present day Portugal and Central Western Spain. They were some of the descendants of the mix that had ocurred between the Iberians and the invading Celts. By this time, they already formed a diferent group, diferentiating themselves from other Celtiberian tribes like the Galecii, Basques, Numantines and other Central Iberian tribes.

-The Romans;
No need to elaborate. They subdued most of Iberia (Provincia Hispanica), only after hard battles and many rebellions, in about 200 years, after the 2nd Punic war (218-202BC). Contrary to most other tribes, the Lusitaniens kept free for a lot of time. They had other ideas and resisted for another 30 years. The civilizational influence of Rome, worked for more than 600 years, uniting all tribes under Roman culture.

-The Suevi;
Germanic invaders indegenous to the area known today as Pomerania. They invaded the Roman Empire in 406AD and established themselves in Northwestern part of the Iberian Peninsula (present day Galicia and Northern Portugal). Their mixing with the population reinforced the differentiation of the Romano-Celtiberian populations of this area.

-The Visigoths;
Just like their predecessors they were Germanic invaders. They conquered Eastern Iberia during Euric's rule (466-484AD). Later, in 575AD, Léovigild conquers the Suevi kingdom and unites all of the Iberian Peninsula under one ruler.

-The Muslim invaders;
In 711, several tribes, from several regions of North Africa, under the command of Tarik of the Omeyyades dinasty, destroy the Visigothic kingdom. The influence of Muslim culture will perform a similar role to that of Roman rulers.

After the Muslim conquest, some areas of resistance remained under Visigothic domain. These were in the North of the Iberian Peninsula. These areas formed the embryo of later Christian kingdoms in the peninsula. The kingdoms of Léon, Navarre, Aragon and Castille.

The rebellious habilities shown by the people of the Western Coast of the peninsula, were a consequence of a very strong cultural identity, formed from a particular ethnic mix.

From the first rebellions, that led to the later independence of the Kingdom of Portucale (Portugal)(1138), born from the Kingdom of Léon, to the several subsequent wars against Castille (from the 12th to the 19th century), there was always a very marked will among the population.

This behaviour is quite obvious, specially during the fight for independance (1128-1138), the Crisis of 1383-1385, the period of the Two Crowns (1580-1640) or during the Napoleonic Invasions (1807-1810).

So, I believe that the game reflects, very justifiably, the "stuborn, unrully, rebelious" (as we've been known througout history) Portuguese. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Quokka]

Quote[/b] (TheSilverKnight @ Dec. 29 2003,09:49)]
Quote[/b] (Norseman @ Dec. 21 2003,14:35)]Each province has a rebel-value tied to it in the startpos.txt file; the higher the value, the harder it is to control the province. IIRC the highest posible value is 10.

From campmap\startpos\EARLY.txt - VI v2.01
Ireland;1
Khazar;1
Lithuania;3
Livonia;4
Pomerania;1
Portugal;4
Prussia;2
Scotland;2
Serbia;1
The rest;0

These numbers may vary in HIGH.txt and LATE.txt

Some other factors are also important, like your factions religion vs the dominant religion of the province, as well as governor V&V etc.
where in the file did you find this information?? When I looked I could not find it. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif please share where in the file you found this. Thanks
He told you the file name already

campmap\startpos\EARLY.txt

the information is about halfway donw the page where all the region attributes are set. The entries look like this

SetAttributes:: ID_ALGERIA "Algeria" 0 MUSLIM_CULTURE ARID AT_ISLAMIC -1 330 "Algeria Castle_xzy" INLAND HILLY NO_RIVER TRUE
SetAttributes:: ID_LITHUANIA "Lithuania" 3 ORTHODOX_CULTURE TEMPERATE AT_EASTERN_EUROPEAN -1 330 "Lithuania Castle_xzy" INLAND PLAINS NO_RIVER TRUE

The entries correspond to Region Name/Rebellious/Culture/Terrain/Architecture/MapGroup/Income/CastleName/Region Attributes/VictoryCondition.

[TheSilverKnight]

Quote[/b] (Quokka @ Dec. 29 2003,12:49)]
Quote[/b] (TheSilverKnight @ Dec. 29 2003,09:49)]
Quote[/b] (Norseman @ Dec. 21 2003,14:35)]Each province has a rebel-value tied to it in the startpos.txt file; the higher the value, the harder it is to control the province. IIRC the highest posible value is 10.

From campmap\startpos\EARLY.txt - VI v2.01
Ireland;1
Khazar;1
Lithuania;3
Livonia;4
Pomerania;1
Portugal;4
Prussia;2
Scotland;2
Serbia;1
The rest;0

These numbers may vary in HIGH.txt and LATE.txt

Some other factors are also important, like your factions religion vs the dominant religion of the province, as well as governor V&V etc.
where in the file did you find this information?? When I looked I could not find it. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif please share where in the file you found this. Thanks
He told you the file name already

campmap\startpos\EARLY.txt

the information is about halfway donw the page where all the region attributes are set. The entries look like this

SetAttributes:: ID_ALGERIA "Algeria" 0 MUSLIM_CULTURE ARID AT_ISLAMIC -1 330 "Algeria Castle_xzy" INLAND HILLY NO_RIVER TRUE
SetAttributes:: ID_LITHUANIA "Lithuania" 3 ORTHODOX_CULTURE TEMPERATE AT_EASTERN_EUROPEAN -1 330 "Lithuania Castle_xzy" INLAND PLAINS NO_RIVER TRUE

The entries correspond to Region Name/Rebellious/Culture/Terrain/Architecture/MapGroup/Income/CastleName/Region Attributes/VictoryCondition.
Thanks, but notice that I said WHERE in the file I could find it. Not which file. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif But thank you. Now I can set Scotland to having the biggest rebellious value (whatever that is) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Voigtkampf]

Quote[/b] ]Quote
Now guess why I can't bring any armies in Protugal? Can't drop it in the province from all those "fiery" inquisitors and their older brothers

NO
Really???

Only for a short period of time… It would be an ineffective waste of resources; they are currently practicing (my inquisitors) on the English high ranking generals… Burn, baby, burn

All in all, a great reading exercise, thank you, respected Lord Aymar...

I am somewhat less ignorant now… Not much, but still…

[PseRamesses]

Quote[/b] (Shamus @ Dec. 19 2003,13:57)]I’ve noticed that even if I keep loyalty at over 150%, they still rebel from time to time. Will a 200% loyalty guarantee there will be no rebellions in rebellious provinces, or do you just have to pile on the troops and hope for the best?
Most definitely Getting 150%+ in theese rebellious provinces hasn´t got me a sinle rebellion in all my games. But it take longer time, though, to take it up that level than in a "normal" prov.

[Voigtkampf]

I have never seen that any province with loyalty factor 100%+ ever rebelled… Sometimes your loyalty is decently fair, but than your king dies and you get stuck with a poor heir, influence goes down and you get attacked as well as provinces start rebelling. Happened to me short while ago, English unleashed a massive assault on me and the Sicilians and the Egyptians reemerged. Oh, dear…

[-Amon-]

Quote[/b] (faisal @ Dec. 21 2003,18:20)]

Quote[/b] ]ARRRGGGHHH the portugese rebel scumARRRGGHHHH

they are a REAL pain,A REAL PAINThey will rebel and rebel and rebel until the poor unlucky faction you are playing is literally destroyed while you send in hordes and hordes of your well trained troops,just to be wasted by the peasant scum,mark my word,THEY WILL MAKE YOUR LIFE A LIVING HELL


GAH

i agree with you..portugal is really pain..they are rebelling,rebelling,rebelling,rebell......and rebelling..

plus,i want to add ireland and scotland too..they are in rebellion unions(ru?)...

have fun http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Doug-Thompson]

I normally keep about 600 troops in Portugal and leave the taxes on "very low." That seems to do the trick.

I sometimes use Portugal as a "governor's school." For example, when a Jihad leaves me with a lot of archer or peasant units that I don't want any more, I check to see which of them have high acumen and disband the rest. Then I move those high-acumen units to Portugal, allowing me to disband some low-acumen garrison units there.

Then, every time I need a new province governor, I know where to find one.