The Staring Contest

[Haethurn]

I just witnessed something very humorous today. The Egyptians reappeared in one of my provinces with 60 Muwahid Foot Soldiers, 60 Handgunners, 100 Peasants, and 120 Mamluk Handgunners. On the next turn they attacked me, and I decided to command the battle personally. I had 272 Urban Militia in Hold Position on a mountain.

I waited for them to reach my units, and when they did, they just stopped there a few feet away from my army.

And that's it. They just stood there staring at my guys while their 100 peasants went back and forth along the line for no reason at all. This continued for fully five minutes until finally they must have decided that they lost the staring contest. They then turned around and starting marching out of my territory.

I was so baffled by this that I didn't even attempt to chase them down. I just stared at them as they retreated, and was thinking at how strange this encounter was when I got the message that I had routed the enemy.

I didn't lose a single guy, and neither did they.

I saved a replay of the battle, calling it The Staring Contest.

Has anything like this ever happened to anybody? I remember thinking when those Egyptians were marching towards me, Man, I'm going to lose another province. Turned out that didn't happen, and their king attacked another one of my provinces. I killed him, and eliminated the Egyptian faction by doing so.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Something similar happened once... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

My army was ALL High-Honor Veterans, commanded by a 6-star general and theirs all low honor with a 1-star general.

Though unlike you, they didn't live to regreat their rebellious actions... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

BTW, welcome to the ORG, Haethurn http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Lord Of Storms]

I had a similar experience while defending in Tyrolia, which is a mountanous province, I was perched high atop a mountain and postioned some troops in an adjacent wood, it took some time for the attackers to reach my postion, then they did some strange posturing approaching then backing off, then I got bored and charged my troops out of the wood, and the enemy turned tail and ran, I never raised a sword or lost a man, I am sure the advantage of the hilss made the difference...LOS

[Gregoshi]

Holy cow Haethurn, you've had your share of weird battles. I read your siege accounts and now this. It seems to me you only need to build a few 10-20 man units and you could conquer the whole map. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Mega Dux Bob]

While I've never had a bloodless battle with the Eygptians I've had a lot of that wander back and forth in front of my defensive line by Eygptian meele units. Typically sooner or later they blunder into one of your' units and fights starts, seems to be by accident on their part.

[Ludens]

Hello again and welcome to the Org, Haethurn http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif .

Again I experienced something simular in STW. I was defending Kozuke as the Hojo clan. The province was attacked by an army of the Imagawa clan. Their army was about as big as mine but had an extra unit of yari ashigaru (peasant spearmen, but I hear they are more reliable than MTW peasants) where I had Yari cavalry (light cavalry with spears). The Imagawa had no cavalry apart from the small heavy cavalry bodyguard of the daimyo (Lit. landowner. The daimyo's were the clan leaders).

The province consisted of a small valley in the middle and a penninsula of height on my side. I positioned my army on the penninsula, 2 samurai archers units (including my general) up front, flanks covered by a unit of yari ashigaru and a unit of yari samurai (yari means spear, as you may already have gathered http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ). My cavalry was moving stealthily behind imagawa's back as it lacked power to fight in a melee, and was only useful for shock charges against week units. Their army moves to the left of the small forest facing the penninsula. I turned my army likewise. Their army moves to the right of the small forest facing the penninsula. I turn my army likewise. Their army moves to the left of the small forest facing the penninsula.
This show continued for a few minutes, until they spotted my cavalry in a forest behind their backs. Appearently I had not been carefull enough.

Their melee troops, 2 units of yari ashigaru and 1 unit of yari samurai, were already on the plateu to the left of the small forest, slightly out of range of my archers on the penninsula, while their daimyo was climbing the plateau. Their 2 units of archers where still behind the forest in the small valley. When they spotted my cavalry, they moved towards the small forest, turned, moved towards the forest containing my cavarly, turned again, moved towards the small forest, turned again, moved towards my cavalry, and so on (their 2 units didn't move synchronous. That is to say, sometimes they walked in opposite directions, sometimes not). I watched this strange ballet, curious as to what was happening. Eventually I got bored, turned on time compression, but still nothing happened. Their yari troops didn't attack my position without archer support, since that would be suicide. So I moved my cavalry away, and yes: they finaly attacked (and got trashed with minimal casualities).

And no, the enemy general didn't have the indecissive vice, since vices & virtues were only introduced in Medieval. Im still trying to figure out wat happened. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Oaty]

A lot of times in desert battles the A.I. marches to meet there foe and by the time they get there there troops are exhausted and leave or if they are the defender sometimes they will send in a few units t a time to try to delay your main army and tire them before you meet there line

[Bevan of Hertfordshire]

It happened to me in STW and MTW i paraded my men around the battle field getting into position when the other side turned around and buggered off.

Kind of annoying when i had spent ten minutes manouvering and they don't have the courtesy to be attacked. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]Kind of annoying when i had spent ten minutes manouvering and they don't have the courtesy to be attacked. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
LOL http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[o_loompah_the_delayer]

Quote[/b] (oaty @ Dec. 20 2003,08:31)]A lot of times in desert battles the A.I. marches to meet there foe and by the time they get there there troops are exhausted and leave or if they are the defender sometimes they will send in a few units t a time to try to delay your main army and tire them before you meet there line
I dont think its necessarily tiredness, sometimes the AI realizes that the situation is hopeless and withdraws. For example in one campaign as Turks in Palestine I had 2 spears, 2 desert archers and one camel on an essentially impregnable position. The Egyptian Sultan apparently agreed and withdrew even though he outnumbered me. In another game with the similar strengths in Palestine where I was on a gentler hill the Egyptians attacked.

Likewise in defensive battles the I have seen the AI withdraw in unpromising situations.

[The_Emperor]

I have had similar experiences,

Once I was the Aragonese and the Italians invaded Burgandy to face off against my army led by a high valour general.

The Italian army comprised hevaily of Feudal Men at Arms and Militia Sergents, with a green general.

My army was camped out right near the top of a Mountain, Feudal Sergents, backed by Archers with Feudal Men At Arms in reserve... Spanish Javelin Throwers at the very front, My only Cavalry unit was the general.

As the rain poured down with the thunder and lighting crashing overhead, the italians slowly trudged up to my position in full armour, a unit of Mounted Sergents rode ahead, they were swiftly shot down and routed...

The Itlian Army pressed on up the hill and through the heavy rain, and my archers let rip with a hail of arrows, the enemy continued to advance closer and closer taking arrowfire until finally recieving a volley of Javelins (Yes they got THAT close http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif)

The Italians then turned around and started marching away... all the while taking arrowfire... My General cautiously followed them and watched as they withdrew from the map

All in all a couple of hundred Italians were killed without a single sword drawn

(I think I have a replay, I'll post it later)

[Ironside]

I've seen it happened a few times. Your position is so superior that he refuses to take up the fight. attack your posision. I guess the time when he refuses to attack your troops (cav vs spearmen for example) and get slayed by your archers instead, is a simular problem.

The weirdest time was when the Swiss retreated once in a very close battle. If I remember correctly, most of my army cosisted of cav and he sended in the SAP:s. Halfway into the battle he simply left http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif . I'm still not certain if I had won that battle if he hadn't withdrawn.

[Ironside]

I checked my replays and discovered that I had another weird battle.
The Mercians had a 2 star general aginst my 2 star Irish general. He had good troops, 660 men against my 960 men, an exellent position and simply walked away http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif . To make it even more weird, that army didn't have any province to retreat to http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif .

[The_Emperor]

Ok fellas here is the replay, I just double checked it and the enemy didn't get within Javelin range (that was another battle I think).

And if you look very carefully you will see the only Aragonese casualty of the battle in the form of a Feudal Man At Arms... Shot by either the enemy (from the one ineffective volley a few archers managed to loose), or from Friendly fire due to walking past my archers while they were happily shooting away...

But I do find it really funny when the AI does a withdrawl like this because when it loses the battle (often removing a star from the generals rank) the General then gets crippling bad vices (Weak Attacker for example).

Oh well such is what happens when you do a Grand ole Duke of York. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Click Here for the Replay File (http://www.ralphwolf.clara.co.uk/burgandy.vrp)

[Ludens]

Looking for a reason behind al these strange victories is a logical error, because it assumes there is a human behind these decissions. But there isn't. There is only a program created by CA to make battlefield decisions resembling those of true generals. You will always get quirks like these if you are trying to simulate something as complex as human intelligence. The only way to get round that is not to use imitation, but the real thing.

Unfortunatly, no hardware dealers sells computers with a human brain built in.

[Ashen]

Most fun i've had recently...was in a quick battle

I was bored so I thought why not. Got myself a pike heavy english army (I know, weird) with some longbows and billmen..and a single demi culverein.(sp?). I think It was versus the french but don't quote me on that. Anyways. Funny as hell. First Cannon shot, General dies, second one tears through some peasants and half his army routes half way off the field. My longbowmen were sitting scratching themselves and my billmen were havin themselves a nice little picnic.

Even better, when he got his chiv knights close to me, my billmen devistated them, and my single unit of chiv knights took bout 200 prisoners. I think I took a total of 40 deaths and that was all down to the french charge. I don't even Know why I bothered clicking anything. Shoulda just pressed control+t and waited. or read a book http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/read.gif.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]I don't even Know why I bothered clicking anything. Shoulda just pressed control+t and waited. or read a book http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/read.gif .
LOL http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Math Mathonwy]

this happened to me 2. i was the English invading Navarre. the enemy army was about 1100. lol the best part about it was my Gen got promoted to 7 stars. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

http://hometown.aol.com/kidj0e04/images/screen%202.jpg

http://hometown.aol.com/kidj0e04/images/screen%201.jpg

[Gregoshi]

So much for pyrrhic victories, eh Pyrrhus? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Math Mathonwy]

Quote[/b] (Gregoshi @ Dec. 23 2003,10:26)]So much for pyrrhic victories, eh Pyrrhus? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
lol http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif ... i usualle have those online though hehe, but its ok online as long as i win. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]So much for pyrrhic victories, eh Pyrrhus?
LOL http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif



Quote[/b] ]... i usualle have those online though hehe, but its ok online as long as i win.
You men it's OK OFFLINE, right? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Game Over!!!]

Happened to myself also.

Playing English and was defending in Egypt when the Sultan attacked me with over twice as many men.

After setting up my army in a classic half loop on a small hill, I hit 'OK' button only to watch absolutely nothing. The Egyptian Sultan never moved a single man and neither did I. After awhile I had to remind myself that I was NOT attacking, so I waited. Pressed Ctrl-T and watched 2 dust storms roll in before the timer expired and I was awarded victory. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Math Mathonwy]

Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ Dec. 23 2003,14:24)]
Quote[/b] ]So much for pyrrhic victories, eh Pyrrhus?
LOL http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif



Quote[/b] ]... i usualle have those online though hehe, but its ok online as long as i win.
You men it's OK OFFLINE, right? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
no offline, when you have a pyyrhic victory you lose men in the campaign, online it doesnt matter how many you lose. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]no offline, when you have a pyyrhic victory you lose men in the campaign, online it doesnt matter how many you lose.
OK Now I get it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Revenant69]

Well i have experienced quite a few of these bloodless battles. Simply put the AI can be outmanuevered. Even if it has superior numbers, it will sometimes give up the fight because its flanks and rear are threatened.

I remember way back outmanuevering one AI army like that. I had lots of cavalry. The AI was sitting on a hill, there were two more hills on its flanks. My cavalry got there unchallenged while my main battle line of infantry and archers approached the AI head on. Knowing that it will be encircled and promptly destroyed (hill or no hill), they simply marched, no ran, off of the hill and retreated from field.

Zero losses on both sides. This sort of teaches you to appreciate cavalry more.

Just the other day, i was assaulting a large Turkish army in Armenia. My 4 boyars (god i love these guys) did the encirclement on both flanks while my main battle line was running at the Turkish center. Once again AI saw its precarious position, tried to dislodge my right flank boyars with 2 units of saracen infantry and 1 unit of armenian heavys. Did not succeed, and so it ordered a major withdrawal. I only managed to catch a couple of units with my boyars, since the AI was sitting close to the edge of the map.

Losses were minimal on both sides, even though both AI and I had over 1000 troops. These kinds of victories are also more pleasing IMHO. To quote Sun Tzu Less slaughter, more manuever.