G.A. Homelands and Barbarian Migrations?

[SicilianVespers]

This may be a question for some of the more experienced modders out there.

I am working on a 6th century Darkages mod. I am planning on using the Italian faction as the Lombards, with their starting position in Pannonia (Hungary).

The question is, if you play in GA mode, will the Lombards naturally try to recapture the Italian homelands?

I am trying to simulate the Lombard invasion of Byzantine Italy....will this work?

Thanks...

[Gregoshi]

Moving this to the Dungeon - Alchemist lab forum.

[Re Berengario I]

Quote[/b] ]The question is, if you play in GA mode, will the Lombards naturally try to "recapture" the Italian homelands?

Ciao connazionale http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

I recently modded GA to aff some new factions to MTW (I couldn't bear no Genoans... and I wanted to see the flag with S.Marco in Venice).

I could state that I got some improvements in the AI behaviour regarding keeping homelands with high GA valour (I gave Milan 4 points to push the HRE in keeping it at all costs... yeah Milan in my mod starts as HRE in early as it should be).

But sincerely I won't bet a dime (or a 5 cents euro for us europeans) about tha AI making its way from Hungary to Milan to accomplish its GA UNLESS you give it so many GA points as a crusade. But it's very unreliable anyway because AI (logically) won't attack a strong enemy province where it could be defeated.

You'd have to keep Byzantines forces in Croatia and Milan at minimum and give Lombards a very strong army and probably they could flow towards this land, but they won't stop there then.

At a side, but very important and sad, note, GA won't work with different dates than early, high and late.

To state it in a clearer way, if your mod starts in 550 AD GA won't work. My mod started in 1000 and GA would have been checked for the first time in 1350 and they were massively screwed up. I modified the starting date to 1087 (original early period) and they worked.

Feel free to ask me other things as we could speak in our native language. My e-mail is in the profile.

[SicilianVespers]

Thanks to Gregoshi for moving the topic.

Ciao Re Berengario (one of my favorite Kings),

I suppose I will have to start the mod in Maurice's reign, with the Lombards already in Italy.

Are you Genoese?

My family is from Sicily, but we originated in Genoa. They came to Sicily, with the Normans, in the early part of the 12th century.

Is your mod available yet? You have to make sure to include Ido the Visconte of Genoa as a hero (952). Many of the great Genoese families trace their ancestry back to him.

I have a Carolingian mod for MTW 1.1 with 4 campaigns strarting in 843 (Lotario), 870 (Ludovico), 888 (Berengario I), and 923 (Berengario II). I stopped working on them when I bought VI, so they will be released once I convert them.

[Re Berengario I]

Quote[/b] ]Are you Genoese?

Nope, I'm from Bologna but my ascendents lived in Rome and Romagna, so I should be Byzantine in your mod but my surname comes from the lombardic "Warin" (warrior) so it's all a bit confused... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif


Quote[/b] ]Is your mod available yet?

Actually a beta version is ready but its size (57mb) creates problems for sending it by e-mail or finding a host where I can upload it.


Quote[/b] ]You have to make sure to include Ido the Visconte of Genoa as a hero (952).

My mod starts at early (1087) so GA playing mode is available. Anyway I'll use the famous genoan family names (Doria, Grimaldi, ecc...)

I have the complete lists of all the kings, princes and dukes of Europe (old "Cronologia e calendario perpetuo" by Hoepli, the book I always use in my university studies), so my heroes file will be correct. It is still to complete though as I was concentrating on the playability problems first for the beta version.

[L`zard]

Barengario

Mayhap Barrocca will assist in uploading your beta to the ORG? (wink,wink,nudge,nudge;) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Methinx there be more than myself interested, eh?

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/santa.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[SicilianVespers]

Guarini? Very interesting...I once read that there were a few Lombard Dukes in Byzantine service, but then again the Exarchate of Ravenna and the Pentapolis were added to the Lombard kingdom in the mid 8th century.

If you need any Sicilian heroes, you should add Marino DeMarini (my ancestor of the Genoese DeMarini). He should appear around the 1130's, he was the Signore di Gualtieri , and his grandson (Guglielmo Marino) was made the Baron of Gualtieri (Gualtieri-Sicamino) by Re Federico I. Two of their decendants (the brothers Ruggiero & Enrico) fought at the Naval battle of Ponza in 1300, during the wars with the Angevins.

It seems after 170 years in Sicily we were still Genoese Admirals at heart http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Ansaldo DeMari would be another good Sicilian-Genoese hero, I believe he was Federico I's Admiral.

If you need any help with the Sicilians, I would be happy to assist.

57mb? sound very impressive...I would love to see it.

Ciao...

[SicilianVespers]

That's too bad about the GA not working prior to 1087. For my Italian mods I like to use pre 1015 (end of Arduino of Ivrea's reign) start dates, to have a proper Italian faction.

I usually concentrate on Post-Carolingian Italy, and of Norman Sicily.

A mod with Manfredo as the King of Sicily and Italy would be a good Idea, or a proper mod with Federico I as the King of Sicily first, Italy and Germany second. He was a Siculo-Norman like his grandfather. Federico would have to subdue the rebellious Welf factions in Italy and Germany.

I just downloaded the Medmod for VI, I may start looking into later periods.

You added the proper flags for Venice and Genoa? You should do a 4th crusade mod. I would love to play Venice vs the Turks

Buon Natale http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/santa.gif

[Re Berengario I]

Quote[/b] ]A mod with Manfredo as the King of Sicily and Italy would be a good Idea, or a proper mod with Federico I as the King of Sicily first, Italy and Germany second. He was a Siculo-Norman like his grandfather. Federico would have to subdue the rebellious Welf factions in Italy and Germany.

I just played my mod using the HRE starting at early. I had to fight rebels in Milan (Milan has a rebellious value 3 in my mod so to reflect the turbolent communal cities) when vikings attacked Friesland and Slavs Saxony and Brandenburg. I had to run all my way back to the north to fight those damn pagans and when my poor Konrad II was busy with in the north the sicilian normans attacked my fleet (supported by the pope for sure http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif).

Damn realistic and I assure you it wasn't intentionally programmed to do so. And slavs wasn't an easy walk as in vanilla version as I gave rebels ships and 100000 florins a year to build up their provinces (so no waste lands) and armies. Viking huscarles and Slav Armoured Spearmen weren't a joke to fight and I have to decide if raise the taxation and build feudal palaces to raise a mighty army but this will cost me some more rebellious provinces (feudal palaces decrease the people happines as taxes).

What makes me happy is that in my mod you can't sit in your corner, raise huge florins and prepare the "end-of-the-world" army to storm all the map. Actually if you fail a decision you're dead. Point.

BTW, HRE is the only factions who can raise spies (at 1000 florins each, they're overpowered as they can bring up people's happiness to easily, and you can execute unloyal generals) and they're visible in the strategical map (they're missi dominici, maybe I'll change the name to be historically correct). You can raise bishops and cardinals just in Rome and Papal States, the same with Inquisitors.

I still have to find a way to reflect the Pope in Avignone... maybe I'll create another province in the map.

[SicilianVespers]

Do you know how to add new provinces? I have been trying to teach myself, so I can break NAPLES up into Calabria, Apulia, Campania, and Spoleto.

I also wanted to break Greece up into Morea (Peloponnese) , Thessalonika, Athens, and Epirus.

A Dalmatian province would be nice as well.

I downloaded LMM, but haven't had time to play around with it.

I think for my 6th century mod, I may start the lombards in Austria or Milan, and give them lots of florins and armies. I did something like this with the Magyars in my 9th century mod, and it worked out very well.

You have to find a way to upload your mod...it sounds like it will be pretty challenging.

Avignone? Wouldn't it be quite a twist if we could setup Anti-Popes, like Ruggiero II did with Anacletus? I suppose if you created a province of Avignone, you could have a Pope title in Rome for the Anti-Pope. He wouldn't have any special Excommunicatory powers, but it would be an interesting feature.

[Re Berengario I]

Quote[/b] ]Do you know how to add new provinces?

Yes, I know how to do it, it's not the easiest task and if you use the original map you can add 8 new provinces at max (maybe less).

Plus the provinces should be great enough to "contain" the image of the castle (hence my problem with Avignone).

the files you need are in the texture\campmap directory:

MapTex.tga -> hires strategical map
MapTex2.tga -> lores strategical map

Those are the maps you see in the strategical screen of the game depending the resolution you run the game.

LUKUPMAP.LBM -> hires provinces map
LUKUPMAP2.LBM -> lores provinces map

Those images are "political" maps depicting the various provinces using the coloros defined in the palette of the images themselves.
Considering that these are 256 colors images and that to define each province you need 2 colors (1 for the territory and 1 for the border) and 1 color (pink, RGB 255,0,255)is used to separate land from sea, the maximum numbers of the provinces you could define is 255/2=127, comprising the sea-regions.

MINIMAP.BIF
MINILUKUP.BIF

Images used for the selection screen (where you choose the faction and you see its lands on the map, MINIMAP.BIF is the map, MINILUKMAP.BIF is the "political" map showing the provinces.

FE_MINIMAP.BIF
FE_MINIMAP_LUKUP.BIF

These are the images used for the little map displayed on the left-up corner of the strategical screen. The same principles as above apply here as well.

Ok, after having changed all those images, you also have to define the new province in your startpos, setting, etc, etc...

Then include it in your region_specific.txt file and faction_specific.txt file, then in names.txt and description.txt (not sure 100% if needed in those 2 files, check if there are VI provinces defined there, if yes then it's needed http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif).

Your new province should be fine and running then, but sincerely I'll do all this mess only when I'll be able to make my mod public.

Right now the problem about make it public it's just its size. And the main fault is of the above map images which are damn huge http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif.

[WesW]

The two places I would look into as far as squeezing new provinces are the seas and the steppes. There should be half a dozen seas at least that you could divide between its neighbors, or just combine with a neighbor and not lose anything much either historically or in gameplay.

Volga-bulgaria, Ryazan and Chernigov could certainly be combined without losing much, especially considering how big they made Muscovy and Khazar. Or, you could expand Smolensk and PEREYASLAV to take up some of the territory occupied by Chernigov, and expand Volga-b to absorb Ryazan.

Other places to think about are Tyrolia, Navarre, Georgia, Rhodes, and, even though this may not be very popular, combining Wessex and Mercia, and either combining Northumbria with either Scotland or Mercia/Wessex, or expanding those two to absorb Northumbria's territory.

As for maps, is it possible to use the lo-res strategic map in place of the high-res one? Even if it didn't look as good, it would be a minor price to pay for getting the mod to the public. Even if you got the current version posted, for those of us with dial-up connections, I don't think very many would be willing to dedicate several hours-worth of download time just to try out a mod, even if they thought it would be a good one.

Another option would be to only include an altered low-res map, and tell players to copy the existing hi-res one to the mod folder, but to use only the low-res version.
You can set the battlefield map resolution independently, and I use the 480x640 setting anyway.
I also always use the lowest strategic map resolution, 800x600, and I seriously doubt that anyone would refuse to play the mod if they were limited to this resolution, and you maybe able to play at 1024x768. I remember a post regarding this back in the spring, maybe by ECS, but I can't remember exactly which settings fell into which category.

I "think" I saw, in the last email that my Apolyton hosts sent, that they raised my allotted site capacity to 150 megs, from its previous 100, and I currently only use 50 or so at the most, so I could host your mod as well if you could find a way of eliminating the need to include a hi-res strategic map in it.
My problem is that I only have a 28k connection, so I couldn't handle your mod at its current size, since you would have to send it to me, and then I would upload it. You would have to be granted site admin status to upload it yourself, and I hope you can understand why Mark and Dan would not grant that to a stranger.

In return, I would ask that you work with me and my advisory group on making such a map for the Medmod, one which would deal with improving the entire map, should that differ from your aims. If it turns out that we could reach agreement on a single map for both our mods, then that would free up 9 more megs from my site.

[L`zard]

Quote[/b] (WesW @ Dec. 28 2003,08:12)]In return, I would ask that you work with me and my advisory group on making such a map for the Medmod, one which would deal with improving the entire map, should that differ from your aims. If it turns out that we could reach agreement on a single map for both our mods, then that would free up 9 more megs from my site.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif Barengario;

Any thoughts towards ftp's you might be into? Something of the sort seems neccesary to me (tho your trying again for the mailing of the mod could be useful to me as an experiment, now that I've changed my email settings)~

One can but try, eh? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Re Berengario I]

Quote[/b] ]As for maps, is it possible to use the lo-res strategic map in place of the high-res one?

I didn't think about it but I tested removing the hi-res map and if it is missing the lo-res is used even if you choose the high definition settings. Thanks for the input http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif


Quote[/b] ]In return, I would ask that you work with me and my advisory group on making such a map for the Medmod, one which would deal with improving the entire map, should that differ from your aims.

I don't see huge problems about it as I removed land-bridges as you did and I agree about removing some useless (and AI trade disturbing) sea provinces.

I united Milan and Venice lands, making Venice an island, I'd restored a land province for Veneto (HRE controlled in early as Venice ruled there just from late XV century) and splitted the Croatia coast creating a Dalmatia province (controlled by Venice from early as they really ruled over all the coastal cities replacing Byzantines).

An Avignone province would be needed for high-late and I'm curious if I could add an "antipapal" faction setting it as "SetBehaviour:: FN_ANTIPAPIST POPE" in the startpos...
but to be historically correct Rome province should be set rebellious and the Papist faction to Avignone (Cola di Rienzo anyone? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif)

In the meanwhile I managed to send my mod to the Org, hopefully they should upload it in some place so some of the more experienced players could playtest it. I could prepare another zip archive without the hi-res map for you and other people. It is 26MB size so, even if splitted, you should check if your ISP allow you to receive email of this size. Let me know and I'll post you. The same is for all the other people interested in it.

BTW Wes, you can steal all the idea, graphics and dingles you need. It's not a problem to me. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[WesW]

I'm embaressed to admit that I didn't read until today your gracious offer to help in the sticky GA Homelands thread.

I tried reading some of the stuff in the Repository, but I just got confused trying to follow the old posts and stuff.
I guess you either found or developed a list of files that have to be altered to make a new strategic map, along with all the other maps related to it.

If you would, let me know where you found out which files to change and an idea of how much trouble it is to change them. I guess it would be best to start a new thread devoted to this.
From what I did read, this is a huge undertaking, unless you have found some things to make it easier. If you would give this info, it would give me an idea of how much time and how difficult it would be to make a new map.
What I would like to do is break up some of the existing provinces, especially in Italy, and perhaps completely re-work east-central Europe from Poland through the Balkans.

I am sure we can get a lively debate started on what the map should look like, but first I want to know if it's worth all the effort.

[Re Berengario I]

Quote[/b] ]I guess you either found or developed a list of files that have to be altered to make a new strategic map, along with all the other maps related to it.
If you would, let me know where you found out which files to change and an idea of how much trouble it is to change them.

There is the LMM utility thread and another one started by Wellington if I remember correctly, which are full of info about the strategical map.

My knowledge comes from there and by the experience as I already modified the map successfully (days of trial and error, you know what I mean http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif).

The files to be graphically modified are in textures\campmap if you want to modify the main game or textures\campmap\[your mod name here] if you want your mod to be an add-on VI style (as mine).

In those directory you will find some TGA, some LBM and some BIF files.

Basically to add, delete or modify a province you have to change the files with "lukup" word in it as they are used by the game to set the borders and overlay a "political" map to the Europe map.

All those files are 256 color images. Each land province uses 2 colors (one for the border, one for the interior), sea provinces use just one color.

How are linked the colors with provinces?

They are linked by the palette entry number and the startpos file. So each of those images have an IDENTICAL palette (very important, I'm not 100% sure but I think the palette is hardcoded in the game so I wouldn't change it).

Scotland has the color palette entries 1 and 2. NorthUmbria 3 and 4.

Then in the startpos they are defined as the first 2 provinces.
DeclareLandRegion ID_SCOTLAND
DeclareLandRegion ID_NORTH_UMBRIA

Constantinople is defined by the color palette entries 113 and 114 and in the startpos ID_CONSTANTINOPLE is the 57th LandRegion declared (114/2=57).

I hope it is clear so far.

You would ask, but how the game can recognize land region from sea region on the map?

Sea regions are defined by the palette entries from 216.

So we have:
DeclareLandRegion:: "ID_SCOTLAND" color entries 1 and 2
DeclareLandRegion:: "ID_NORTH_UMBRIA" color entries 3 and 4
....
DeclareLandRegion:: "ID_CONSTANTINOPLE" color entries 113 and 114
....
DeclareLandRegion:: "ID_SICILY" color entries 197 and 198
DeclareSeaRegion:: "ID_NORTH_ATLANTIC" color entry 216
....
DeclareSeaRegion:: "ID_ATLANTIC_COAST" color entry 251

What does all this mean?

a) we have just (215-198)/2= 8 couples of "land" colors free. So just 8 new provinces. And colors used by sea regions cannot be "recycled" as they could be assigned just to sea reagions. Sad but true http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

b) well.. you can't even add 4 seas more because the palette entries from 251 to 255 are identical colors, so "game over" http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Ok, since now we messed with the graphical part of the stuff... then you have to obviously change or add all the declarations in the startpos file regarding provinces (SetRegionUnfloodable, SetRegionUnquakeable, SetRegionRebels, SetNeighbours, SetBorderInfo, SetCastle, SetOrigin, SetPort, SetAttributes, SetResources, SetTradableGoods, SetRegionOwner, AddTitle) and the strings in \loc directory default_region_specific.txt and default_faction_specific.txt (or [your mod name]_region_specific.txt and [your mod name]_faction_specific.txt if you use VI add-on structure).

I don't know if you have to change names.txt and description.txt as with VI the strings used for provinces and factions should be the ones in the above files (faction_specific and region_specific).

You have to check then unit_prod and build_prod to modify region assignment consequently and regowner_table to set the GA points and you should have done...

[Russ Mitchell]

Hi guys... Wes wanted me to stop in and say hi, as I've been bitching to him about the map since the first time I reviewed his stuff for him (e.g., why does England, which is roughly the size of Denmark, get three provinces, while Poland gets one, and the Balkans, which is just a huge place, a total of four?)

This may seem terribly naive... but is there any law that says that the colors used must actually be consecutive? Beat me if I'm insulting your intelligence, because my expertise is in the history, NOT the programming... but if so, it would give you all the map spaces you could possibly want..

::ducking and covering::

[Re Berengario I]

Quote[/b] ]This may seem terribly naive... but is there any law that says that the colors used must actually be consecutive? Beat me if I'm insulting your intelligence, because my expertise is in the history, NOT the programming... but if so, it would give you all the map spaces you could possibly want..

In the original map there are 99 land provinces. Teorically you can add 8 more (if the spare colors are coded to be used, that I presume they are). So no unlimited spaces as there is a law that let you use just the colors defined in the LUKUP map image file.

[WesW]

Ok, thanks for the explanation. I remember one of the CA guys back in the Spring stating that they had used all of the available land regions, so I wonder if anyone has actually used those last 8 regions.

In some of my reading yesterday, a guy mentioned some files in the frontend_files\factionselect_menu that had to be altered or made from scratch. I realized that these were not mentioned in your list and wondered if this was going to be a larger task than I had previously thought.

Well, if Russ and I and whomever else wants to join in, including you of course, can decide upon how we want the new map to look, do you think you could create the graphics for it? I could use PSP to alter one of the Luk- or Lukupmaps and sent it to you to compile. I can do all the text work needed to incorporate the mod into the game, and I should even be able to alter the maptxt files to our satisfaction.
Btw, if I input the locations of the port, ship, castle and unit placement for the new and altered provinces into the campaign files, shouldn't this remove the chore of making those dots with the LMM? If not, then you can simply open a window and scroll down to where they are listed and easily input them into the lukmap or whichever one has them.

Also, I found out tonight that you can convert the maptxt files to 8-bit format with PSP, and then revert them back to 24-bit simply by saving them as such, with no problems. This will make the maptxts much easier to email and download, since it shrinks them by two-thirds.

The specific steps are to open the color menu and select decrease color palette, 8-bit, then choose Optimized Median Cut, Error Diffusion and Reduce Color Bleeding.
PSP creates a 256-color palette comprised of only the most often used colors in the pic. I reverted them back and forth many times, and I could never see any difference between the 8 and 24-bit pics.

The bad part is that the game won't load the 8-bit versions, so they'll have to be reverted back to 24-bit size before they can be used. Perhaps you or someone else here knows of a good way to use this to our advantage with the final version of the mod, so it will not be so big and players won't accidentally lose their original files somehow.

For now, please send me all the text files that you had to edit to implement your changes. Then I can run a search for the name of one of the provinces you created and easily see all that needs to be done to add the new provinces. I won't need the units text.

[Re Berengario I]

Quote[/b] ]I remember one of the CA guys back in the Spring stating that they had used all of the available land regions, so I wonder if anyone has actually used those last 8 regions.

Someone stated he added some more province but theory and practice are quite different so I want try to do it by myself in the next days and see if it works.


Quote[/b] ]In some of my reading yesterday, a guy mentioned some files in the frontend_files\factionselect_menu that had to be altered or made from scratch.

I listed them in a previous post in this thread:

Quote[/b] ]
MINIMAP.BIF
MINILUKUP.BIF

Images used for the selection screen (where you choose the faction and you see its lands on the map, MINIMAP.BIF is the map, MINILUKMAP.BIF is the "political" map showing the provinces.

FE_MINIMAP.BIF
FE_MINIMAP_LUKUP.BIF

These are the images used for the little map displayed on the left-up corner of the strategical screen. The same principles as above apply here as well.



Quote[/b] ]Btw, if I input the locations of the port, ship, castle and unit placement for the new and altered provinces into the campaign files, shouldn't this remove the chore of making those dots with the LMM

Coordinates in the startpos files are calculated getting the position on the image and multiplying it by 8 if you use the hi-res map or 16 if you use the lo-res map.
I never used LMM as I prefer do all by hand.


Quote[/b] ]The bad part is that the game won't load the 8-bit versions, so they'll have to be reverted back to 24-bit size before they can be used.

I confirm this as I already tried it. If the "end-user" has a program (like PSP) which can convert between JPG and TGA the size could be shrinked down even more. Messing with compression of the LUKUP maps is instead a no-no, otherway you'll experience very nasty effects (and CTDs) as the colors will be messed up.


Quote[/b] ]easily see all that needs to be done to add the new provinces

Let me try to add a province in the next days to my mod. I know that region_specific.txt and faction_specific.txt needs to be changed. Regowner_table too for sure. I'm not 100% sure about names.txt and description.txt and I don't remember if also the heroes.txt needs to be updated (because the rebel definitions for the new province).

Changing the maps has the side effect that or the original files are overwritten or you need to use the directory and file structure in the style of VI. This is another choice you have to do, I choosed the VI structure but now I don't know if I would choose the same as at the end a lot of the original files needs to be overwritten anyway (projectile, dead_coords, regowner_table, names, descriptions, factions GA graphics).

[Russ Mitchell]

I think I understand you now... looks like I need to download a copy of photoshop or something... (I can hear you guys chortling even now).

More than happy to crack open my references, Wes, and get very detailed if you bright boys can figure it out. Moravia, ho

[SicilianVespers]

It looks like I won't have any time to work on adding provinces. My harddrive crashed, and I had to reinstall everything. The thing that really hurts, is that I didn't have any of my mods backed up I have to start everything over from scratch.

Has anyone ever attempted to simulate the Volkerwanderung (Barbarian Migrations) with the Crusade feature?

The Roman Empire would definitely be excomunicated early, and as long as the Barbarian factions are Crusading Catholic factions it should work.

Would It work if I put the Pope in an inaccessible region like Africa?

[Russ Mitchell]

Wes sent me a preliminary map... which made me want to rip out my hair, because he spent a FREAKING LOT of effort on something that doesn't work historically... so I sent him a map this morning that I did up yesterday... it's just a screencapture with lines and labels, since I don't even own a copy of Photoshop or any of the high-speed/low-drag graphics programs (which makes me hesitant about the 8-bit,24-bit thing, but i"ll figure that otu when the time comes).

To the extent that I could, I retained the latinate "provincial" names for the divisions I showed in the Balkans... thus, "Hungary" had its borders fixed (Austria was turned into this huge province for some reason, with the province apparently running most of the way into downtown Buda before "Hungary" begins... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif ), and picked up the historical division of Pannonia and TransDanubia... hopefully with "Carpathia" being replaced by "Transylvania" the way it ought to be... point is, that if it works for him, it's a map that should be perfectly appropriate for the "volkerwanderung"-type scenario as well, since for the early middle ages you can put latinate settlers in Pannonia, the Getae in TransDanubia, etc... I also put in Bosnia and Macva, which, if you want to stay perfectly latinate, would shift to "Dalmatia" and "Bosnia-Macva". (Pronounce Macva like so: Mah'-tchva)

Anyway, enough for now, I'm playing hookey from work while it's slow... if Wes can let everybody know what has to be changed, it should provide for some additional accuracy to the map, in addition to the (very good) changes he proposed to me on NY' eve..

Happy New Year, folks...

[Russ Mitchell]

Oh. And for teh early middle ages, "Croatia" would actually be "Slavonia." Historical Croatia is an itsy-bitsy place, whereas Slavonia was most of the rest of what we think of as Croatia today (it's where you see those Venetian references to early basket-hilted swords, if any of you are blade buffs: the "schiavona," or "slav-style" swords...)