Dealing with the pope.

[Math Mathonwy]

Im pretty sure that many of you agree that the pope is one annoying bugger. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif i would like to hear how you take care of him, ive found the best way is to station about 5 or 6 Grand Inquistors in Rome, whenever he gives me trouble then i just burn him hehe. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif its funny how even the pope can be a heretic. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[katar]

i just kill him ASAP, and destroy all buildings in his province.

i also make sure there is a nice revolt in the province to make it go "Rebel", when the pope comes back he has to get rid of them before he can do anything else, this gives me time to bribe and/or destroy him and his armies (rince and repeat ss necessary). http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[Eastside Character]

But you can also side with pope and help him in achieving his goals, for that he will almost always award you with some florins. If you have to fight with him, make the war fast and kill him asap. What you do after that is another question. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/handball.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/read.gif

[Bezalel]

Occasionaly when I'm playing as a chatholic faction and tick him off, and Im unfortunate enough to be next to him, he attacks me. So, I take him out, then make the papal states and rome rebel against me, and just leave him there. If he gives me trouble (asks for crusades against me) I train some assassins (by train, I mean give them practice on bishops emissaries etc) then have them assassinate him.

[ichi]

If he excommunicates me, I assassinate him.

ichi

[fruitfly]

If you're a catholic faction, then burning the Pope as a heretic is definitely the funniest way to dispose of him.

As a Muslim faction, my favourite tactic when the Pope calls for everyone to crusade against me is to conquer Rome and the Papal States, fill them with Alims and then make them rebel. When the Pope respawns, he ends up spending most of his time fighting off Muslim rebellions. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Servius]

I did a little toying with the unit_prod. I got it now where all the crusader units can be trained with a Chapter House but only in Rome, and Rome gives a +1 Valor bonus to Order Foot Soldiers trained there. That way, if the Pope give you trouble and you want to take him out, you can still get access to your favorite crusader units.

This makes sense to me as, when you depose the Pope, a message pops up saying that a pupet pope has be installed. Well, if I installed that pupet pope, he better grant me access to crusaders whenever the heck I want them.

I wish there was a way, or that I knew it, that if you have conquered the papacy and have installed your own pope, that you, but only you, could still launch crusades, or that other factions would have to ask you for permission to go on crusade.

[Voigtkampf]

Quote[/b] (Servius1234 @ Jan. 06 2004,12:45)]I wish there was a way, or that I knew it, that if you have conquered the papacy and have installed your own pope, that you, but only you, could still launch crusades, or that other factions would have to ask you for permission to go on crusade.
I agree, this should have been implemented in the game by all means…

[Bezalel]

I suspect they made it that way to discourage people from doing that. It would make holding on to the papal states and rome worthwhile, which I think they didn't want since they went to the trouble of making him come back a lot.

[Voigtkampf]

Quote[/b] (Bezalel @ Jan. 06 2004,21:50)]I suspect they made it that way to discourage people from doing that. It would make holding on to the papal states and rome worthwhile, which I think they didn't want since they went to the trouble of making him come back a lot.
You are probably right… So the Pope remains only an obstacle, not a desired goal of conquest.

[Oaty]

I just send him a few young boys everyyear seems to pacify him quite well for me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Math Mathonwy]

Quote[/b] (oaty @ Jan. 07 2004,20:36)]I just send him a few young boys everyyear seems to pacify him quite well for me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
rofl http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif hey thats sorta ironic because the pope gets the preverted vice alot.

[Jabberwock]

Leave the poor guy alone - he has enough trouble wearing that ridiculous hat
Play orthodox - then all he does is encourage the odd crusade once the muslim factions are finished off, and by then everyone's against you anyway. Defeat the crusades and watch your enemies' provinces revolt.... Actually, in encouraging the Catholics to take the very unwise action of attacking you, he is hastening your achievement of world domination - bwahhahahahaha http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Lord of the morning]

I usualy play HRE and invade the papacy as soon as I can, rich good provinces that. The pope usualy reemerges every now and then, so I station some huge armies in nearby provinces.

[Vlad Tzepes]

Quote[/b] ]ive found the best way is to station about 5 or 6 Grand Inquistors in Rome, whenever he gives me trouble then i just burn him hehe. its funny how even the pope can be a heretic.

You must be a happy MTW ruler... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-yes.gif I still wait to fry the Pope, after sooooo many campaigns...

Usually I try not to mess with him, try to be patient when planning an attack on other catholic factions. One tactic is to simultaneously invade all my enemy's provinces... if it's possible. Another - to corner their king and heirs (if I can't kill them, at least I can get a nice ransom for them, and wait for another 10 years to pass).

What I noticed is that lots of (won) Crusades seems to improve relations with the Pope. At least for a while.

When I do get expelled, I usually kill him with a high rank assasin (still have to make it with the inquisitors...) or invade him. He always comes back, so I destroy everything and leave. When he respawns - yes, big armies, but no infrastructure...

[Jazzman]

Servius 1234 remarks that message comes up regarding installing puppet pope, i never saw this before. i thought once you eliminate him he goes away for a while and then reemerges down the line. can someone explain how puppet pope works? i'm playing HRE in GA mode and getting close to having to mess with the pope to achieve HRE goal regarding italian provinces

[Math Mathonwy]

Quote[/b] ]You must be a happy MTW ruler... I still wait to fry the Pope, after sooooo many campaigns...did you use inquistors, or Grand inquistors, it only works for me if i use grand inquistors, and even then it takes around 4 or 5 turns of having all of them inquiste him each time. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-rolleyes.gif

as for the puppet pope, that message comes up each time you kill the pope, it doesnt really mean anything except that the pope will be out of the way until he resurges.

[TheSilverKnight]

I build up some really great grand inquisitors or assassins, then unleash my fury on the Pope. Let that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif in Rome have a piece of my mind Or I march my armies on him http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

That or take off his funny hat and throw it on the floor, then have a hissy-fit about it and cry. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-sunny.gif

[Obex]

Quote[/b] (ichi @ Jan. 05 2004,21:29)]If he excommunicates me, I assassinate him.
Yep, that sums it up.

After a while, you can just ignore him. crusades are too weak to be taken seriously, and after a while, even your allies will start attacking you, so no big deal. just make sure you have province loyalty under control.

[Dillinger]

Just attack Catholic factions when your king only has around ten more years on him. Then the pope is never a problem, as excommunication is ended when a new ruler is on the throne.

[insolent1]

hhmmm a while since I posted look at all the new smilies http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

I love to play as the Swiss & whenever I do I go straight for Venice. In late Naples is a rebel province & the pape always takes it. So after techin up & reinforcin my armies in Northern Italy I take Sciliy from argonese. Once Sciliy is secure I induce a rebellion(rebel) & retreat destroying everything but the port. The pape will then go for Sciliy & once he does he falls into my trap http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-surprised.gif
I then take Rome, Papal states & Naples & trap his holiness in Sciliy. Which means it only takes one small army(last time I just used an ex heir SAP unit) to secure your border with the Pope. I know it means giving up Sciliy which is a cash cow & has a decent title but it also means that you don't have to maintain 2-3 armies just to keep the Papist peaceful. Its also important to get & ceasefire & alliance(takes a few decades) as you will have to protect him if he gets attacked by other factions so he dosen't get himself killed & then try & lead papist revolts in Rome.

[insolent1]

Quote[/b] ]Dillinger Posted on Jan. 17 2004,11:58
Just attack Catholic factions when your king only has around ten more years on him. Then the pope is never a problem, as excommunication is ended when a new ruler is on the throne.

Excellent advice but I have had excommunications carry over to the next king. In my most recent game as Italians MM3.14 I got excommunicated for attackin the Pope. When my king died about 4 years after the attack the excommunication continued on with the new king & 14 years later i'm still excommunicated....not that I mind http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[makkyo]

I realy don't care if I'm excomunicated. Crusades aren't all that important (to me). To make the game a little interesting I just kill the Pope and wait for my enemy's crusades. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[PseRamesses]

Fluke luck or....?

Played the HRE last week and took out the Pope when my GA-goals told me to take the Italian provs. I stripped Rome of every upgrade and didn´t appoint a govenor, I forgot, and the Pope didn´t re-emerge??? I only played for 30-40 more years so maybee he would have eventually? Anyone had the same experience?

[Etym]

Like Obex and Ichi, I usually just kill the old reprobate -- it always works for me (never had an excomm survive him). BTW, if you can't manage to take all of a fellow Catholic's provinces in 2 turns or kill all the heirs in 3, I've read somewhere that you can attack a different Cath faction, wait for the warning and back off. Apparently the AI can only keep track of one warning, so as long as you keep peace with the first target, you can whale away on your real target for the next 10 years. Can anybody confirm this?

[afroide]

Unless you're in a rush, you need never get excommunicated.

Simply make sure that when taking a catholic province, you do it in 2 years (attack, then assault castle next year). Hell... if you've got the troops, do 2 or 3 provinces at once. Often this strategy works in your favor, as the enemies retaliations will get them excommunicated.

[kawligia]

1)If war is declared only the stronger faction will recieve the warning, regardless of who is the aggressor which is asinine if you ask me. So unless its modded out somehow you can do all you want if the other country is technically stronger than you.

2)Also the pope can only keep track of one warning at a time. All you have to do is attack country "A" and then stomp country "B". If you don't share a land border with "A" it's a plus as you can just pull your ships out and get the auto ceasefire. Just send in some suicide peasants. Some may view this as cheap, but I view it as a balancer to #1.

3) If all else fails.......If you can't beat 'em, join 'em I like to play as the pope. It's more of a challenge. No crusades, no princes or princesses, no special units, pathetic starting position.

[Aleksandr Nevsky]

Is it really the stronger faction that gets excommunicated?

The pope isn't always bad...just recently, playing as the Italians in High era on hard, the pope saved me. I was the strongest faction (most units) and just completed a crusade to Palestine. I had two stacks of strong armies in Palestine, and I reinforced the garrison there with some troops from my homeland as there was a Jihad on the way (the Jihad actually never made it as the Egyptians broke out into a civil war). Well I was allied with just about everyone...however BOTH the Germans and Hungarians saw my weakend posistion in Venice from reinforcing my Crusader State and decided to break alliance and invade. I lost that battle (very poor terrain for me, and I was vastly outnumbered) my remaining troops retreated to the Citadel, the next turn one of my stacks from Palestine came back and broke the Siege, the Germans (who had more troops than the Hungarians) decided to they could not win. In the next few turns my Doge died and my Heir took over (which was good as my Doge had gained "Good Runner") i bribed the former French (now rebel) garrisons in Tripoli and Cyprus. I also defended Milan from a German attack and invaded Provence, assaulted the fort and took it. I had one strong army stack in Venice with a few other units moved from around the empire when the Germans and Hungarians tried again. The makeup of their army was rather weak, a vast majority of Crossbows/Arbalests and Mounted Crossbows. I was able to sandwich the German General between chargeing Feudal Knights and Royal Knights and killed him out right. From then on it was a VERY long process of mopping up all these missile units around the battlefield as well as fending off the reinforcements. Anyway the next turn the pope excommunicated the Germans, and they went into civil war.

Wow, sorry didn't mean to get so detailed there http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-oops.gif . So anyway to make the story short, if you use the Pope right, and get him on your side (build churches, train bishops, crusade) then he can be the best ally out there, he basically won that very costly war for me.

I guess it is possible that the Germans had surpassed me to become the stronger faction...I did not know that the stronger faction recieved excommunication.

[Lord Of Storms]

The Pesky Pope a thorn in a modders side until VI that is, we did the best thing in my opinon we removed him from the game entirely we kept his hat though...LOS http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-toff.gif

[Etym]

PESKY indeed. He seems to be taking something with his wine in my game. I ended up conquering Spain (see thread starter) because they just wouldn't make peace. Over the course of 3 turns I bribed 7 out of 9 provinces (everyone except Portugal and Aragon). One of those guys cost 45,000+, but I had lots of florins. I had to siege three of the castles, and was expecting to be excommed every turn, but it never happened. On the 4th turn, I killed the King in Aragon (no heirs) and my spies caused a revolution in Portugal. Guess who showed up and excommed me? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif I thought it wouldn't happen if I killed all the royals? I also thought that if you bribe the only army in-country, there's no one left to occupy the castle? Maybe I just never noticed this before.

Oh, well. The second 4-star assasin cooked the Pope's hash and we're allies again. What ARE they thinking over there in Rome? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif