Actual range of...

[Voigtkampf]

I looked up for the missile values and can tell that longbows have only small advantage in range compared to normal archers, which is historically very wrong; while standard bows could be effective and kill on distance up to some 90 meters (100 yards) the longbows made their kills up to more than 350 m (around 400 yards), their steel arrows piercing armor without much trouble. I am changing that and experimenting, for the sake of the game balance. I also know that the arquebusiers and muskets killed effectively in some 100-125 meters distance, but I was wondering what was the actual range of early ballistae, catapults, trebuchets, culverins, canons and mortars et cetera, so I could determine a proper ratio between those different units.

[Eastside Character]

If you want to give missile weapons their actual range, I think you should also take into consideration the sizes of battlefields we have in this game. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

[Voigtkampf]

I thought of that.

The trebuchets and cannons have far too small range, IMHO, but I would like to know what actual range they've had so I could increase their ingame range accordingly.

I just hoped that some of our more esteemed fellow knights, being well informed about that period had those facts somewhere and spare me the encumbering search…

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Well, that is a tough question, because there is a great degree of discussion around it.

Regarding LB, even today, some experiences made to reproduce range and armour-piercing power, are quite unconclusive.
I had a talk in another thread with dunnichen that discusses some of these new experiences:

Archers Underpowered in MTW (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=15;t=13193;st=100)

Relating to Mangonels and Trebuchets, I believe you're right. I do not have historical information to corroborate but, they shouldn't have a similar range to catapults.
The range should be longer, because these engines were much more powerfull and had a longer projection arm than catapults.

Since in MTW Catapult Range = Trebuchet Range = Mangonel Range = 12000 units and 5000 units = 100m, we can see that their range is effectivelly:

12000 units = 240 meters

Quite short, don't you think? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

I think for trebuchets and mangonels the distance should be between 15000 units = 300 meters and 20000 = 400 meters.

And this only because the maps aren't that big...

Of course, someone else might disagree.

[Voigtkampf]

Lord Aymar, I've been participating in "Archers underpowered", this one is more "all artillery underpowered" thread…


Quote[/b] ]Since in MTW Catapult Range = Trebuchet Range = Mangonel Range = 12000 units and 5000 units = 100m, we can see that their range is effectivelly:

12000 units = 240 meters

Quite short, don't you think?

I think for trebuchets and mangonels the distance should be between 15000 units = 300 meters and 20000 = 400 meters.

And this only because the maps aren't that big...


Too short, in my opinion…

The guns never had a great range, in any M:TW era and afterwards, some 100 meters of actual effectiveness isn't much, but the catapults, trebuchets and mangonels should be much better and have a greater range, by all means…

I'm altering this for my M:TW inhouse mod, and I was just searching for the real firing distances to have some basis to start my modifications on…


Quote[/b] ]Of course, someone else might disagree.
That's the lovely part of democracy and freedom of speech…
Someone will always disagree…

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]I'm altering this for my M:TW inhouse mod, and I was just searching for the real firing distances to have some basis to start my modifications on…
Sorry for beeing unable to assist you... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif



Quote[/b] ]That's the lovely part of democracy and freedom of speech…
Someone will always disagree…
Yeap http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Voigtkampf]

Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ Dec. 28 2003,18:44)]Sorry for beeing unable to assist you... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
Don't grow gray hair on this, I'll dig it out eventually, one way or another…

[Ja'chyra]

Voigtkampf

Try here

http://historymedren.about.com/gi....rty.htm (http://historymedren.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.xenophongroup.com%2Fmontjoie%2Fngp_arty.htm)

I don't know if it's got everything but it might help http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[Voigtkampf]

Thanks, Ja'chyra

I'll go scope through those pages and their links, I've already found one interesting piece of info…


Quote[/b] ]It took another six months, with two carpenters and a blacksmith, to finally construct a fully operational trébuchet in 1987. When finished it repeatedly and successfully hurled projectiles weighing 56 kg over a distance of 212 meters. Many of the shots landed exactly in the same spot, confirming the power of this formidable medieval, non-gunpowder artillery weapon.

Now, though this is a replica of a trebuchet made as a test to see how it worked in medieval times, I believe it was near the actual range, for the expressed weight…

If I find out more, I'll post it here…

Once again, thanx,Ja'chyra