Time travelling mercenaries...

[Voigtkampf]

As I have posted before on another thread…


Quote[/b] ]As for rare mercenary units and odd happenings, the other night while I was playing I found a unit of merc Arquebusiers in my inn on Rodhos, three turns later a bombard in Algeria…

All in all, no big shocking surprise, besides the fact that the gunpowder was supposed to appear in some 150 years from the moment I've stumbled over them…

I've modded quite a few things, and kept a very clean record of all the things I've done - it saved me when my hard went to Kingdom come some while ago, I had these files backed up – but I didn't make any mod that could affect the appearance of the gun units before actual appearance of gunpowder…

My M:TW starts in 915 and ends in 1914, and this bizarre thing happened to me in 1087, I believe; I haven't modded the game so I can have access to gunpowder earlier, in fact I've never even tried it, suppose it's hardcoded, and therefore cannot explain this oddity.

Now I've began another campaign with the English, once again early, when I discovered there were longbows as rebels in Wessex. Longbows are available only in high/late period.

So, has anyone experienced this?

PS Time Commanders receive a fully new meaning after this…

[Quokka]

It happens all the time.

Mercenaries are too powerful in unmodded MTW and VI. Its too easy to buy extremely good units way before they could be built and roll over weak neighbours as the AI never hires mercenaries.
There are also too many seige weapons in the Inns. The size of these things would kind of preclude them travelling around looking for work, I would think. Its possible to hire enough artillery from Inns so that you never have to build any yourself, why bother when you can hire 8 Mangonels in 1090?

[Game Over!!!]

Best thing to do when you see this happen is bribe those rebel armies. It's great to have 2 or more units of longbows in 1090...royal knights beware of those armor piercing arrows

[Voigtkampf]

Excessive amount of state-of-the-art units? Waaaay too much catapults in Inns (BTW, I adore getting one of those when I start early and have only plain forts in all of my empire)? Sure thing, I just couldn't remember that I've ever seen gun units as mercs before the gunpowder era…

Thanks , Quokka

[NewJeffCT]

Well, you have to remember that merc units half twice the support cost, which can be killer in Early while you're struggling to build florins... any sort of mercenary advanced cavalry unit is going to cost you 100+ florins a year in support, as opposed to half that for hobilars or mounted sargeants or saharan cavalry.

They also have poor loyalty.

I only buy merc siege weapons for defensive purposes and very rarely use actual units unless it is for a suicide mission (wear down a province a bit before my crusade gets there...)

[Voigtkampf]

Well, perhaps it does happen all the time - uber-mercs arriving from the future - but I have now double-checked the UNIT_PROD and confirmed that, though you can have all these units as mercs, they shouldn't be appearing before their respective time frames, gunners as well as longbows, so this must be a bug.

[Math Mathonwy]

but arent mercenaries supposed to be better than average considering they are professional troops? i have to agree about the cannons and gunmen though. one time i bought about 10 organ guns lol.

[Phatose]

The longsbows mentioned aren't mercs, they're rebels placed at the start of the game. I don't remember ever seeing out of period mercs. I've seen plenty where they were just more advanced then anyone had managed to build to though.

[Revenant69]

I constantly see gun units in Inns in High period before gunpowder is actually dveloped. I play VI 2.01 AFAIK in nonpatched vanilla MTW it didnt matter what era you were in - you could get any mercenary unit.

It is not so in VI, you can only see gunners in High period and onwards. However, it is still annoying to see them in inns before gunpowder is "invented". The only explanation that I can come up with is that they are Chinese mercenaries who traveled to Europe to ply their trade and thus caused the spread of gunpowder technology in that Era as the Europeans witnessed and "borrowed" their know-how. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

PS They are not that abundant to make a difference really, plus they are costly.

PPS So far I have NEVER seen Almughavars in Inns. The only time I have seen them is in my current Russain game in one of English crusades - how they got there totally baffles me.

[Math Mathonwy]

ive seen almughavars in a inn one time. i immediately hired them out of curiosty, i dont remember how good they were though. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif ive seen them afew times in Crusades.

[Voigtkampf]

Quote[/b] (Phatose @ Dec. 24 2003,17:02)]The longsbows mentioned aren't mercs, they're rebels placed at the start of the game. I don't remember ever seeing out of period mercs. I've seen plenty where they were just more advanced then anyone had managed to build to though.
Indeed, the case I've mentioned above were rebels, but longbows are also available as mercenaries from time to time - AND before their time

[Ironside]

Citera[/b] ]PPS So far I have NEVER seen Almughavars in Inns. The only time I have seen them is in my current Russain game in one of English crusades - how they got there totally baffles me.

The crusade probably passed trough Aragon or something. I've gotten polish retainers once as the HRE when a crusade passed through Poland. I've also gotten 6-7 full units of Abyssinian guards when I was playing a Jihad-campaign as the Almohads.

But I never saw any Almughavars before I modded them in. But they are exellent troops http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Ashen]

Quote[/b] ]

PS Time Commanders receive a fully new meaning after this…



LOL http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

As I've answered in another thread I think it's a bug.
I've not payed attention for those events in my games, since I rarely use mercs, but I've seen some high quality troops, in the Early period when nobody can produce them. So, it is just another of those irritating quircks of the game. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

[bighairyman]

in my latest gaem, all the comps were using gun units and artilley long before the discover of gunpower. weird http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

i'm using a mod but it havn't happened before.

[Voigtkampf]

Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ Dec. 27 2003,09:47)]As I've answered in another thread I think it's a bug.
I've not payed attention for those events in my games, since I rarely use mercs, but I've seen some high quality troops, in the Early period when nobody can produce them. So, it is just another of those irritating quircks of the game. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif
Obviously… But anyway, I snatch all those gunners I can find in the inns anyway

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]I snatch all those gunners I can find in the inns anyway
Every advantage has to be taken http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Nelson]

Quote[/b] (Quokka @ Dec. 24 2003,10:58)]There are also too many seige weapons in the Inns. The size of these things would kind of preclude them travelling around looking for work, I would think.
I don't think siege engines actually come with the machine. I see it as getting the engineers. When a machine is destroyed you get a new one after the battle so long as the crew survives. I also believe that engineers were among the most popular of mercs.

[Voigtkampf]

Quote[/b] (Nelson @ Dec. 29 2003,01:26)]
Quote[/b] (Quokka @ Dec. 24 2003,10:58)]There are also too many seige weapons in the Inns. The size of these things would kind of preclude them travelling around looking for work, I would think.
I don't think siege engines actually come with the machine. I see it as getting the engineers. When a machine is destroyed you get a new one after the battle so long as the crew survives. I also believe that engineers were among the most popular of mercs.
Yes, kind of hard imagining the scene of the catapult or even trebuchet crew sitting behind the tables and negotiating their costs, while there are catapults and trebuchets parked outside…

But then again, if we were to hire only crews, were do we get our own engines - especially if we don't have the facilities to produce them anywhere…

Ohhh, headache…

[Ranges]

Well, i think you should see those facilities as a place to TRAIN people who built them..

Ergo, you cant TRAIN the engineers who are supposed to walk out into the woods and build a catapult from logs and pieces of rope...

Of course, this might be stretching your sense of realism. But that's your choice http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[NewJeffCT]

It's never happened to me before, but I just saw the Pope re-spawn early in the HIGH era (prior to 1230, as the Mongols had not invaded yet...) and he came back with 2 demi-cannons, which are Muslim-specific cannons. Granted the area had been overrun by the Almos a few decades earlier, but I was shocked to see cannons.

And, I had seen a mortar in an Inn around 1200, so I immediately hired them on.

[theadept]

the doctor must have got his dates wrong in the new series
(dr who for any non brits)