Modding Editors???

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Well, what do you think?

Is CA going the next step?

Will their promisses come true?

Any comments would be much apreciated... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Ashen]

im thinking 3..but there is a slight chance it might hit 5-6. I remember an interview where something was asked about mod tools and the reply was basically "No, only ours do that and you aint gettin em"

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]im thinking 3..but there is a slight chance it might hit 5-6. I remember an interview where something was asked about mod tools and the reply was basically "No, only ours do that and you aint gettin em"
You're sure about that?

[Voigtkampf]

In an interview, the CA was asked "will you give us an idiot-proof tools to mod the game" and they've answered "no, we'll keep those for ourselves"…

Not exact quote, but it was a joke… They will go a much further than with M:TW, perhaps all the way except actually providing us with a 3D modeling program or the very source code…

[TosaInu]

Konnichiwa,

-STW alpha demo: mapediting tools (a bit 'difficult' to use at first), edit Tututial Battle text after a 3th party 'crack'.
-STW: txt editing for Tutorial Battles, Historical Battles and could use battlemaps made by the demo.
-STW WE/MI: text editing of Tutorial Battles, Historical Battles, Historical Campaigns (includes a basic scripting), Full Campaigns, Unitstats, Projectile stats and a easy to use mapeditor.

The Dungeon regulars will certainly know much more about MTW and VI.

-MTW: Everything STW WE/MI has and some more. BattleMap Textures are standard TGA files, much more extensive unitstats, much more extensive campaign txt files, option to edit the buildings.
-VI: Not really new, yet good improvements imho. Unitstat tied with era files thus easily allowing to play different games and even allowing to create extra add-ons (Barocca's mod is an example of that, sorry I'm rusty). Seperate MP parameters in the unitstat. MP can be a different ballgame, thus it needs different rules. Haven't played with it yet http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif but the scripting in Historical B/S seems to have improved a bit and looks very interesting.

Option 2 in the poll is actually option 3. Or do you mean a Historical Battle editor where you can position units?

Option 3 is the bare minimum if you just look at the level of 'service' we got used to. We get the same, but for a new engine.
Option 4 and 5 seem quite realistic.
Option 6, scripting is actually already part of TW since STW WE/MI, but much much more is possible. And, judging on some TC episodes, some of that seems to be part of RTW.
Unlike previous TW titles, good chance that users can edit it then.
Option7. This seems a very high expectation. A very powerful plugin editor is more likely.

I hope that things that can be edited by a WYSIWYG editor will also allow textediting. WYSIWYG editors make it easier and speed up the proces, but normal text editing adds power to get things done (think of a tiny 'bug' in a editor that prevents to do this and that while the game could execute both).

I think 6 will be close.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

voigtkampf:


Quote[/b] ]They will go a much further than with M:TW, perhaps all the way except actually providing us with a 3D modeling program or the very source code…
Let's hope so. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif



TosaInu-sama:


Quote[/b] ]-STW alpha demo: mapediting tools (a bit 'difficult' to use at first), edit Tututial Battle text after a 3th party 'crack'.
-STW: txt editing for Tutorial Battles, Historical Battles and could use battlemaps made by the demo.
-STW WE/MI: text editing of Tutorial Battles, Historical Battles, Historical Campaigns (includes a basic scripting), Full Campaigns, Unitstats, Projectile stats and a easy to use mapeditor.
I wasn't aware of basic scripting in Shogun http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif




Quote[/b] ]-MTW: Everything STW WE/MI has and some more. BattleMap Textures are standard TGA files, much more extensive unitstats, much more extensive campaign txt files, option to edit the buildings.
-VI: Not really new, yet good improvements imho. Unitstat tied with era files thus easily allowing to play different games and even allowing to create extra add-ons (Barocca's mod is an example of that, sorry I'm rusty). Seperate MP parameters in the unitstat. MP can be a different ballgame, thus it needs different rules. Haven't played with it yet but the scripting in Historical B/S seems to have improved a bit and looks very interesting.
And in VI, the empty slots for extra factions...




Quote[/b] ]Option 3 is the bare minimum if you just look at the level of 'service' we got used to. We get the same, but for a new engine.
True.




Quote[/b] ]Option 4 and 5 seem quite realistic.
Let's hope they pick 5. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif




Quote[/b] ]Option 6, scripting is actually already part of TW since STW WE/MI, but much much more is possible. And, judging on some TC episodes, some of that seems to be part of RTW.
Unlike previous TW titles, good chance that users can edit it then.
Once again sounding stupid, I wasn't aware of scripting habilities. Just txt alterations.
But if option 6 is the chosen one, it would be increadibly powerfull. It would allow some of the MOD PROs to make some FANTASTIC MODs... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif




Quote[/b] ]Option7. This seems a very high expectation. A very powerful plugin editor is more likely.
I was just joking. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
A commercial copyrighted game will never be released with Open code. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif




Quote[/b] ]I hope that things that can be edited by a WYSIWYG editor will also allow textediting. WYSIWYG editors make it easier and speed up the proces, but normal text editing adds power to get things done (think of a tiny 'bug' in a editor that prevents to do this and that while the game could execute both).
You're absolutelly right. That would be the most powerfull editing tool. I hope they will surprise us with it... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif




Quote[/b] ]I think 6 will be close.
Well, let's hope so. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


Thanks for the answers... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Voigtkampf]

Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ Dec. 28 2003,10:21)]
Quote[/b] ]Option 4 and 5 seem quite realistic.
Let's hope they pick 5. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
5 or above and they have 200% loyalty in my province for all times…

[TosaInu]

Scripting in STW WE was very basic, actually they were victory conditions that could be used to branch a scenario (.BDF files).

MTW introduced the timer for units to show up on the battlefield.

VI, but I only scanned through some documentation (MTW\Battle\batinitAISCRIPTINGINSTRUCTIONS.TXT) seems to offer even more switches for units (.ADF files).

This is a great thing, as the behavior of the AI can be extremely frustrating when designing/making a battle. Now, it's possible to force the AI to perform certain tasks.

The modding progress between STW and VI is huge and raise the expectations for RTW. On the other hand: STW and MTW have some similairities, while RTW will be quite different. So when resources are limited, they'll probably be invested in the 'basic' game. Even if that's the case, then basic 3th party or community made tools may be able to edit a thing or two (over 100 maps were made for STW before the mapeditor was released, some even included water, while STW didn't officially support that).

Yes, the extra slots. Very useful

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]Scripting in STW WE was very basic, actually they were victory conditions that could be used to branch a scenario (.BDF files).

MTW introduced the timer for units to show up on the battlefield.

VI, but I only scanned through some documentation (MTW\Battle\batinitAISCRIPTINGINSTRUCTIONS.TXT) seems to offer even more switches for units (.ADF files).

This is a great thing, as the behavior of the AI can be extremely frustrating when designing/making a battle. Now, it's possible to force the AI to perform certain tasks.

Thanks for the explanation, Tosa http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif




Quote[/b] ]The modding progress between STW and VI is huge and raise the expectations for RTW. On the other hand: STW and MTW have some similairities, while RTW will be quite different.
But the game might have been planed from scratch as highly "modable". It could work to our own advantage. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif




Quote[/b] ]So when resources are limited, they'll probably be invested in the 'basic' game. Even if that's the case, then basic 3th party or community made tools may be able to edit a thing or two (over 100 maps were made for STW before the mapeditor was released, some even included water, while STW didn't officially support that).
Even if the RTW release is "basic", the expansion might have some editors, although I must agree that there are lots of people able to work around limitations.
But not me. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Voigtkampf]

Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ Dec. 28 2003,17:35)]
Quote[/b] ]The modding progress between STW and VI is huge and raise the expectations for RTW. On the other hand: STW and MTW have some similairities, while RTW will be quite different.
But the game might have been planed from scratch as highly "modable". It could work to our own advantage. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
The way I got it from the interviews, the CA had the words "highly modding friendly" on the top of their drawing board, written in capitals. Rejoice

[TosaInu]

Indeed, the future looks very bright.

[dessa14]

Quote[/b] ]
Quote
Option7. This seems a very high expectation. A very powerful plugin editor is more likely.

I was just joking.
A commercial copyrighted game will never be released with Open code.

umm What about Half-life, Quake 3, Unreal Tournament? there are Released source codes out there.
how do you think so many very different half life mods developed.
thanks dessa

[Sir Moody]

I seem to remmeber in one of the interviews one of the team saying we would be getting the same tools they used to make the game - this sounds like an SDK....

[Ashen]

some interviews are oddly contradictory http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]umm What about Half-life, Quake 3, Unreal Tournament? there are Released source codes out there.
how do you think so many very different half life mods developed.
Let's hope CA follows their lead... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[TosaInu]

Konnichiwa,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but UT hasn't released the source code. It 'just' allows very powerful mods/plugins to be made.

I understood SDK to be something different from source code.

The audience for these games are a bit bigger. There will probably also be some 'creative' people (simply because the pool is larger) who can obtain a couple of things: parts of source code, 3th party editors to hexhack.

If my memory doesn't fail me too much: half-life made modding/total conversion popular, but that wasn't supported/'legal'/officially intended that way. Companies started to support it as the h-l case showed that you could make extra money if you did: mods require the original game to run. A win-win situation.

[Sir Moody]

Stand corrected - UT has released a SDK which basically allows a design team to create a completely new game using the Engine without having to "cheat" (side stepping constraints placed by the design team ie preSDK Halflife mods where every new feature was a battle)

BUT you are correct that an SDK is different from what you would get if you bought the engine - an SDK in theory is the same BUT comes with this nice stipulation that you cannot use the SDK to create games for profit where if you buy the engine you can sell the game you make - thus its a mod makers dream