Total War - Civil War

[kiwitt]

After playing MTW for more than a year, I have a strategy for avoiding rebellions that works.

1) Build the Capital Province up so that it can build Royal Knights. Do not build palaces in other provinces.
2) Keep all princes in the Capital Province
3) Build Royal Knights and place the Provincial titles on them and leave them in the Capital Province. Any new provinces simply build more Royal Knights and leave them also in the Capital Province.
4) Marry the princesses off to these Royal Knights.
5) Keep loyalty in the province at 200%

This strategy works because the Royal Knights have the highest loyalty.

I never get a Provincial Rebellion or a Civil War.

What do other people think of this strategy.

[TheSilverKnight]

First of all: Welcome http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

Second: I think that's a good strategy. But I have noticed that certain princes have lower loyalty (not enough attention from Daddy? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif ). But that's a good strategy, almost exactly like what I do. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Eastside Character]

Welcome to the Org. kiwitt http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

And about strategy avoiding civil wars, I say: don't let disloyal people have power. For me this works perfect.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/handball.gif

[kiwitt]

Thanks for the Welcome:)

What my concern is of this strategy, is that because the leader was not in the province, you may not get the benefit of his acumen and the increased revenue this brings.

As I prefer building a big navy and trading for high income, I thought this would make up for the provinces loss of his acumen.

[bighairyman]

My strategy is to have a couple spies in each province, and it kills two birds with one stone http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

the spies help stop rebellions and it warns u about disloyal generals and ringleaders. Anyone else use this strategy? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[kiwitt]

Spies in your own provinces. Didn't think of that, I thought they were only good at spying on the opposing factions. Now that is a strategy worth trying. Will give that one a go and leave the Royal Knight Provincial Leaders in their own province.

[ichi]

The strategy is certainly workable. This is a game of balance, and by focusing so intensely on loyalty you may be depriving your empire of other benefits.

I only make governors out of units with 4 or more acumen. Less acumen can really impact your cash flow. I make guvs out of the highest loyalty 4-acumen guys. Dread and V&Vs also play a role.

I like to fight with my heirs, it improves their command ranking and gives them good virtues. Generals must be a minimum of 4 loyalty, or it's back to the capitol to join the King's bodyguard, as you do.

Keeping a bunch of expensive Royal Knights back in Capitol City seems a little inefficient, especially with a large empire.

Palaces are necessary to train certain high quality units (like VG for the Byz) and as prerequisites for other important buildings. Restricting the construction of palaces may reduce your ability to produce good units in a pinch.

I used to think that it was important to keep Guvs in their provinces in order to avoid morale penalties or other vices, but the programmers corrected me in another thread. They removed the absentee penalty in order to simplify gameplay, so its not necessary to keep your Guvs at home.

I posted a list of ways to deal with happiness and reduce rebellions a short while back, in this thread:

ichi's bright ideas (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=15;t=13457) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

ichi

[kiwitt]

Thanks for that ichi. So with my other strategy of using Lancers(+4/+4) and use Kings and heirs as Warrior Generals leading them I would be unstoppable.

I also have read Frogeggbeast's unit guide, and learn't alot about how to use units better.

[bighairyman]

Quote[/b] (kiwitt @ Dec. 29 2003,15:08)]Spies in your own provinces. Didn't think of that, I thought they were only good at spying on the opposing factions. Now that is a strategy worth trying. Will give that one a go and leave the Royal Knight Provincial Leaders in their own province.
Also have some assissians(sp?) in some provinces to kill enemy agents and assianed (sp?)enemy commanders across the border http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[kiwitt]

I generally have 2 priests and one assassin in each province, didn't have a use for Spies.

Are Spies better than assassins in Provincial Management

[mercian billman]

Spies will keep your provinces loyal warn you of disloyal generals and, may warn you of an enemy attack. I keep at least 10 assasins in my provinces to eliminate any inquisators or other diplomatic agents.

I posted some tips for the use of diplomatic agents with the HRE and, it should work with every catholic faction as the HRE have to rely more on diplomacy than other factions.

http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin....t=13492 (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=7;t=13492)

[Sun Tzui]

I have been trying 1 Bishop+1 spy, and it's been working like a charm.

[Sun Tzui]

Sorry folks but i gave one incomplete answer:


Quote[/b] ] have been trying 1 Bishop+1 spy In each province (forgot this part)

But i find agent management too boring after a short while... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[kiwitt]

Find them as well. You first have to scroll through all your bishops, etc, it is alphabetical.

Assassin
Assassin..
...
...
Bishop
Bishop
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
Emmissary
Emmissary
...
...
...
...

etc.

Is there a faster way than this. If you forget where they are ?

[Sun Tzui]

Quote[/b] ]Is there a faster way than this. If you forget where they are ? Didn't mean it that way, I meant that the agent list seems to go on forever when one has many provinces...that's what bores me.

[katar]

if you want to make it easier to find agents on the map, just press c to remove castles from the screen and z to remove armies, just press the keys gain to return units to the map.

both come in very handy when you are trying to find spies, assasins, bishops and princesses that are too well hidden on the map, which can be very... very ANNOYING http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Doug-Thompson]

Quote[/b] (kiwitt @ Dec. 30 2003,15:54)]Is there a faster way than this. If you forget where they are ?
Open the agents menu. Click on the location category title. That will put your list into one sorted by province. Or you can click on valor and your most experienced agents of any type will rise to the top.

[Bezalel]

I always do the 200% thing, but it failed me recently w/ the Byzantines. I think the comp was just trying to keep me from winning though. All my provinces are revolting, all remaining factions are attacking me, and many are returning, but I haven't lost ground, so I think the comp is pissed.

[bighairyman]

Did u have like most of the map. it happens. in the end, they will be lots of factions coming back. i always leave every faction one province and then near the end, i attack them all at once. this usually helps. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[Revenant69]

Well, some of the things I am going to say have been said before, but sometines people dont grasp all ideas at once but grasp just a few. So I am going to put a helpful guide of sorts to help deal with rebellions and civil wars.

In my long time of playing MTW I have only had a civil war once. It was during Turkish PBM campaign which you can find here Rise of the Turkish Sultans (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=25;t=10690)

It is a fun read, I think http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

The only two reasons why I had that civil war was because:
1. I hired a ton of mercenaries to help me crush the Egyptians
2. turkish generals are notoriously disloyal (even princes rebel)

So if you want to know how to keep your kingdom happy and civil war free, and possibly even rebellion free, you could follow my tips:

Conquering provinces
When you plan to conquer a province, you have to pay heed to a few factors. Is the province the same religion as you are, is it rebellious like Portugal, Livonia etc, are there going to be repercussions if you invade it (like you being excommunicated)?

If you do not pay attention to these facts you may find yourself needing 2000 troops to garrison the province for a long long time, thus making it an inefficient conquest.

Before I even start playing the game I designate my home provicnes to specific tasks (1 for cavalry, 2 for infantry, etc). I always designate 1 province as a special agent province. This is where i produce most of my agents.

So before you decide to invade a faction or a province send out your bishops and/or other religious agents to start converting the population a few turns ahead of time (if they are different religion). This will help to lower the occupying garrison tremendously. Even if the province shares a religion with you still send out your bishops/imams to help keep it the same religion since other powers may want to convert it to Islam/Christianity etc.

Ok so we have established the first step.
Send out your religious agents in advance of your invasion

Secondly, once you conquer the province, these are the buildings that you should build (in that order):
Watch Tower
Border Fort
Fort (if there is no fortification)
Town Watch (and keep upgrading it)

These are happiness buildings (there are probably more but i do not recall them at the moment) and so should keep the population at least partially pacified. These buildings must be the first that you build in the newly conquered province.

So step two is,
Build happiness buildings in the annexed province

As soon as you conquered the province, send in a spy (more if you really want, but 1 spy will be enough) into it. Spies serve a dual purpose as they help keep the population in check and even report any secret plots against your mighty king. You can send spies just as you conquered the province, dont send them ahead of the invasion as they may get killed by enemy spies and/or border forts.

So step three is
Spies, do not ever forget about spies

Really these steps are just a rough framework of what should be done, they do not necessarily have to be done in this order however it keep my writing organised and structured, so there.

As far as the occupying garrison, it should consist of minimum 200 troops, less as the time goes on and the province becomes part of your heartland. You should probably have more troops if the province is really rebellious. 500 troops garrisoning Portugal is not an uncommon sight in my games. The type and quality of troops depends totally upon your preferences. Some people like to put peasants to save on upkeep, however, since I always swim in money in my games I usually put spearmen type units (at least if there is a rebellion they can hold out for reinforcements to get in).

Ok so another step is,
Do not forget to garrison the province

Last but definitely not least, and this is probably the most important step: When you first occupy the province, on that same turn set the taxes to Very Low Imagine yourself as a peasant in Medieval Europe, your province gets conquered, your farms/houses burnt, your wife raped and the next thing they do to you is impose crippling taxes. I would want to revolt, wouldnt you?

Once the population accepts your rule, you can start raising the taxes gradually.

So, Most importantly, lower the taxes to Very Low on the first turn of occupation

The same story and list of steps should be also applied to your original provinces.

Maintaining your provinces loyalty

So if you have followed all the steps that I had described above you should have a stable and happy populace. Make sure your provinces ratings are above 120 or hopefully above 140. There is a reason for that. What could happen is that your current king dies and gets replaced by a 6 toed lunatic of a son who has no clue how to run an empire. People are not going to like it. Sometimes in these situations general loyalty of a populace can dip by 40%. So if you had a province with 100 loyalty, it can suddenly rebel as its loyalty dips to 60%. However, if you had a loyalty base of 140 or more, you are assured a smooth transition from king to king.

This is one of the most dangerous periods for an empire, when the king dies and is replaced by a new king. It is pretty historically accurate I think.

Keep general loyalty of the populace above 140%

If you happen to control really rebellious provinces like Portugal, Scotland, Livonia etc make sure you give the governo title to a person with high dread rating. Each skull of dread adds 5% loyalty to the province. Dread is also easy to obtain by your generals when they slaughter massive numbers of prisoners. This is an additional thing that will help keep people in check.

For troublesome provinces, give titles to generals with high dread

Once your empire reaches a decent size and you start conquering islands, you should make sure that you have a sea link to the mainland for you islands. Otherwise they are cut off and the loyalty of the people there drops. this may happen when some factions start blockading your islands. This is another reason why you should keep your base loyalty above 140. for islands it may be agood idea to increase the garrison size and/or put in more spies.

Becuase of these reasons islands are notorious for rebelling.

Islands are important since they serve as stop offs for your navy thus reducing the upkeep of your fleet, plus they are damn hard to invade, this makes them a very good strategic target.

Take special care with islands

Another thing you should absolutely do is build build build. I even build up useless provinces like Cyrenacia, Arabia and such. Why? By building farms and buildings in these provinces the governor gets Steward and builder virtues which both add 10% happiness. The more happiness the merrier, right? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Once the governor gets that virtue you could stop building in these useless territories.

Build up every province no matter how useless it is

Well, it seems that this guide is getting to long for my liking so I will have to put the other stuf in the second post. If I forgot to mention something, then I shall add it in the appropriate place in this thread.

End of Part I

[Revenant69]

Things you absolutely MUST NOT DO

Sometimes even a smooth running empire can collapse because of a single mistake. Knowing these dangers and avoiding them, one can keep the empire going as it was. Here I shall list things you absolutely should not do. Ignore these advices at your own risk.

Never ever in the life of our universe send your king to attack an island province

Well, most of us made this mistake the first time we played MTW (at least I did). This is the most single horrifying thing you can do to your empire. By sending you king to attack an island province, even if the map shows that the island has a port will most assuredly get him cut off from the rest of your empire.

A king must be at the heart of your kingdom and direct the development of his empire. A king must not be left stranded on an island where his everyday thought becomes How do I get out of this stinking rock?.

As I was saying, even if the island had a port originally, it may get destroyed in the proces of invasion. even if it doesnt get destroyed, a storm may sink a vital link in your fleet thus stranding your king. A rival power may sink your ship to achieve similar results.

By having a king stranded on an island with no way out of there, local nobility may decide that this is the best opportunity (which it most likely is) to advance their own station and statusand become kings themselves.

Expect massive rebellions and/or civil war coming your way if you do this unspeakable thing.

This is just another case of showing why invading island provinces is a dangerous enterprise.

If you are catholic, avoid being excommunicated

Pope is one nasty mofo when it comes to religious figures. His power is limited yet impressive when wielded in its utmost potential and fury.

Excommunication will cause the loyalty of your subjects to drop quite a bit. However, being excommunicated can be avoided. It just requires a bit more patience and planning if you are a catholic.

When you invade a fellow catholic state, the Pope will give you a warning to back off in two years and stop hostilities for another ten years or risk being excommed. There are a couple of things you can do, one of them is to back off right away, the other is much more favorable. You have two years to attack, take and succesfully siege the provinces that you have invaded. This way you have taken some land from the enemy and you are still on a good side with the Pope.

There is a bug in the game, which allows you to exploit this warning that the pope gives and enables you to attack other Catholic nations with impunity of Gods wrath. however, since it is a bug I do not advise on using it as it is unsportsmanslike. I myself have never used it as it makes playing catholics a bit more challenging and fun.

After the two years of thrashing your catholic brothers, you have to observe the ten year period of nonhostilities, which is best used to prepare your armies for the next two year invasion http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif It makes conquering your catholic brethren a bit slow but steady process.

Another thing that could happen is that you are attacked by a rival catholic faction. In this case, as far as I know, you can retaliate with impunity (please correct me if i am wrong). So this way you could sucker catholic factions to attack you by keeping your border provinces lightly guarded.

Or you could just play defensively and wait for a faction to get excommunicated and pounce on it with all your might.

Make sure your crusades/jihads are successful

Nothing sucks more than sending one nice big fat crusade through thirty provinces and then watching it being beaten and drained of manpower and eventually crumble. Needless to say, people back home are not going to like their ruler if his crusades keep failing. This can cause major loyalty problems.

To avoid this, never send your crusades on long expeditions on foot. First you could send them at provinces only 2-5 years away. This will make sure that the crusade arrives with enough force to take the target province and boost your king's influence.

If you really want to send a crusade half way around the world then make sure that there is a sea link to the target provinc so that hopefully the crusade can arrive there in one turn.

Sometimes crusades can start out with pitiful ammount of troops, you eitehr have to let them sit and build up their retinue or send them marauding through neighbouring provinces that have high zeal to hopefully enlist more faithful ervants of God. However, if you are on a tight schedule or just impatient you can biulk up a crusade by your own troops thus increasing the chances of its succcess.

Do not let your king's influence dip below 4

When your king is an inempt amateur who speaks to invisible servants and marries his horse, the generals of the armies are not going to like that. It is a recipie for a civil war. This can happen if your king died and was replaced by a total fool with 2 or 3 influence.

This situation should be remedied immediately by conquest, crusades and massive building programs throughout your empire.

A good way to ensure that your sucesor is going to have a decent starting influence is for the current king to have maximum influence of 9, however, even then bad things could happen and you could end up with a loon of a successor.

There is another bug, the so-called roll-over bug with influence (i am not sure if it is still in VI 2.01) that if your king is too successful and has 9 influence and wins another war/crusade etc, hiw influence will rollover 10 and so become 1. It is unclear to me if it is only a problem of displaying the influence and if it affects the game in any way. It could be just a cosmetic bug. I would appreciate if someone lets me know about the details of this feature.

When you spies warn you of a revolt, DO something to prevent it

This happens when your spies (if you placed them in each of your provinces) warn you that there is a plot brewing against his Magesty the King. Once you get this warning, you should seek out generals who lead your big stack armies and check everyone's loyalty, you have to do this for every stack of troops. Even if your 8 star general commands an amry of 6 stacks and the generals loyalty is unquestionable, his subordinates may defect and lead some stacks in the revolt.

You should also check that every commander of a garrison is trustworthy. You could improve the loyalty of troublesome generals by marrying you princesses to them or giving them titles. You could also keep the really troublesome generals with your king. Or you could simply assassinate them. there are many soultions, but you MUST do something about it if you want to avoid a civil war.

Shufling your troops around and putting loyal generals (5 or more loyalty) in charge of stacks will certainly prevent the rebellion.

You can also start a massive building campaign by building lots of fast buildings (1- 2 turns) to get your king a Magnificent Builder virtue which adds 2 loyalty to ALL your generals. This one thing can stop a civil war dead in its tracks.

The problem can be compounded if you have hired a vast quantity of mercenaries (see below).

Hopefully by now i have convinced you to use spies as they are simply invaluable. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Avoid using vast quantities of mercenaries if you already have loyalty issues with your generals

Well as it says, you should avoid it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif Most mercenaries (if not all) come with really really low loyalty to their boss i.e. you. After all, they fight for money and not ideas. moreover, mercenaries cost twice as much to support as regular troops.

Use mercenaries only if absolutely necessary: if you need a quick force to defend your porvince from imminent invasion. You could also use them if you are lacking certain tactical edge on a battlefield (ie hiring spearmen type units if you are byzantines)
...................


Well, this is my brief (tust me it is) overview of loyalty, civl wars and rebellions for MTW: VI 2.01

Feel free to post your comments and criticism as it will help me modify my post and, who knows, maybe eventually this will make it into a guide. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I do apologise for the length, but really, it is just a compact version of what i was going to write http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Cheers and a Happy New Year http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/snowman.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/santa.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/handball.gif

Rev

[mercian billman]

The pope will excommunicate you if you attack another catholic faction which has half the number of factions you do. If the Germans have ten factions and the French have 5 factions the Germans would be warned of excommunication if they attacked the French. If France attacks the HRE and, seizes a German province, if the Germans counter attack to retake the province the pope will give the Germans a warning.

Basically the Pope wants to keep everything the same ensuring that no Catholic faction can dominate the others and make sure the catholic factions focus on eliminating Islam and, Orthadox factions instead of each other.