Diplomacy

[Demequis]

Hello all.
I've been having a really hard time using the diplomatic part of the game once my faction gets to reasonable size, not even dominant.
My problem is that I cannot really get the AI to accept any of my offers....ever. Now, I don't really start sending out emmissaries until I would like to end a war, or gain an alliance (after my faction is reasonably well established). But sometimes I have ridiculous results
For example:
I was playing english, I held Livonia because I wanted the juicy trading goods. The horde emerges, conquers...I fight off a few waves of them in Livonia, and they get the idea and go to easier opponents. I'd like to take my army out of Livonia, or at least reduce it but I have been unable to make peace with the horde Always denied, every time. I've gone through several kings, and several horde kings have died and been born as well....
I thought that if you are inactive in a war for a certain period of time, a ceasefire is called due to inactivity? This was not the case for me (I have not modded the game, and am running VI 2.01).

I have had similar experiences with the Sicilians, HRE, etc... Sometimes I will deal factions ridiculous blows both territorially and to their armed forces...request a ceasefire (denied), chill for 10 turns, request a ceasefire, denied... I've done this with low low influence kings, and ultra influence.

Can someone please explain to me a little better how diplomacy works (or point me to a guide that talks about it), or point me in the direction of a diplomacy mod?

I've not installed MedMod, but I am thinking about it as it looks very neat. Has the designer of medmod implemented any changes to diplomacy in his mod?

Thanks much

[Nikitas]

Higher star emissaries help.

Also, about the instant ceasefire, it is not based on inactivity so much as not haveing any contact. Meaning none of your provences, sea or land, should be boarding theirs for an instant ceasefire to occur.

[Phatose]

Here's what I know, which probably isn't much.

First off, if you control more then 40% of the map, expect the computer to be very unreasonable. If you control 60%, expect to never have any diplomatic success. If your income is really insanely high too (lots of trade), it gets angsty too. The AI likes to keep the status quo, and would rather be at war with a large empire then at peace. Makes sense, if you think about it. They know you can outproduce them, and as such waiting things out just means you'll crush them later.


Earlier on, remember the computer is an oppurtunist. If you're at war with 6 factions, you're an easy target. Which means to the AI that it's better off attacking you and taking your land then making peace. If it is at war with 6 factions though, then making peace is a -good- thing for it.


I've also noted that the AI tends to offer up princesses more willingly if they have a reason to, besides 'we've been allies for 150 years'. For example, playing as the Spanish, I had Ibera, Africa up to Egypt, France and england. I had a long, stupid cold war going with Germany over a crusade that insisted they needed to pass through my lands on their way to the middle east. I was allied to lots of people, and I needed a princess for my crown prince. Nobody wanted to make with the wedding bells though, and I was getting ticked.

Now, while this was going on Egypt was pretty much rampaging across the eastern map. They were at war with all my allies, and winning, too - but had no allies. So, I'm sitting here trying to find a princess and getting told off six times a turn, when who should appear in my royal palace but an Egyptian emmissary looking for an alliance. My chancellor causually gave me a list of six or seven factions who I'd no longer be allied with if I accepted. However, I was awfully ticked at them since they were so cheap with the princesses.

I accepted. Figured why not? My allies were useless non-princess providing cheapskates, these guys were doing well, and my North African border was more peaceful then my European one.


Three turns later, no less the three other factions showed up at my door, suddenly offering princesses. Seems all I needed to do was give them a reason.

[ichi]

Your plan is to dominate the entire map, and the computer knows it So, it tries to make it harder. IMHO diplomacy is the aspect of MTW most lacking, but diplomacy in MTW is better than it was in Shogun.

Phatose and Nik covered most of it: high influence king, high valor emissaries, don't expect too much when you are winning.

Then there's the "Mom, Spain is touching me" thing. As long as you and the enemy are in contact (land or sea) the war will continue - separate and its over.

Want a ceasefire with a certain faction? Remove all of your ships from the waters that the faction is in. Pull em back so they are not in contact with the enemy. If you have provinces that touch then do whateve you need to create rebellions along the border - sometimes I even let my own provinces rebel - until you are no longer in contact.

Mostly though I just plan on having lots of enemies - just like in real life http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/argue.gif

ichi

[Ja'chyra]

I too think that diplomacy is the most disappointing aspect of the game, apart from sea battles but that would just be frills.

I can understand why countries don't want to sign alliances with huge countries but do you really think a two province Hungary would declare war on a Byzantine empire spanning most of the known world. This is the thing I would love to see improved in RTW and going by the posts I've read I think most players agree.

The suggestions have already been listed before like:

1. Mutual protection pacts
2. Access through allies territory
3. Paying of tribute
4. Helping your allies either with cash or troops
5. Exchanging/demanding provinces.

To name a few.

Go on CA, you know you want to http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[Demequis]

Okay thanks guys It is kind of confusing, because when your king has really high influence it says that something about alliances, and how a nation would feel favored to be in your alliance (something along those lines), when in fact they just want to stab you in the back http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Ah and yes, my problem was the income then. I had few territories, but was taking advantage of the ridiculous trade.

[Eastside Character]

Playing this game you should have one thing in mind Demequis - this game is pretty much total war only, so all those diplomatic things are really not much than just distractors. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Btw , few times in game it happened to me that the AI was begging me for a ceasfire (yes - begging), obviously my kings were always too busy to see those ceasfire begging emissaries personally, the answer was always no tho. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/handball.gif

.EC.

[Voigtkampf]

Quote[/b] (Eastside Character @ Jan. 03 2004,11:14)]Playing this game you should have one thing in mind Demequis - this game is pretty much total war only, so all those diplomatic things are really not much than just distractors. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

.EC.
Though I'm not completely happy with this, it is certainly so. All your alliances don't mean squat if you are weak, and your best friends are on your back as soon you start showing weakness.

Therefore, the best diplomatic argument in M:TW is a sharp-edged sword.