Ground Scale for MTW VI

[anvil]

Does anyone know what the ground scale is in MTW VI? I have searched to no avail.. I mean what units when the txt files speak of ranges etc,,, ft,yds,meters,or just proportional to each other for the 'puter's benefit.

anvil

[Degtyarev14.5]

Hi anvil,

CA uses a system here whereby a unit of distance - say, in designating a weapon's range - is equal to 2cm. So, a range of 50 is equal to a metre, 5000 is equal to one hundred metres, and 6000 - the range of a longbow - is equal to one hundred and twenty metres.

However, it is well documented - and frequently cited - that a good longbowman could easily fire three hundred metres. This discrepancy between reality and game stats, I can not explain.

Hope that helps. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

A.

[Ludens]

Quote[/b] (ArseClown @ Jan. 10 2004,20:19)]However, it is well documented - and frequently cited - that a good longbowman could easily fire three hundred metres. This discrepancy between reality and game stats, I can not explain.
Simple: there is a difference between firing an arrow 300 metres and hitting a target a 300 metres.

Same for arquebusses: they could hit targets at a range of 300 yards, but that would be just luck. The thing was seldom used for ranges above 50 yards (except by snipers perhaps). Musket: 400 and 100 yards respectively.

My guess is that it would be a waste of ammo for your average archer to start firing at the maximal range of your bow. Only a good archer on a wind-free day could even hope to hit a large formation at that range, let alone a single man.

[CBR]

The smaller missile range is also meant to make the battle feel bigger.

Max effective range for an average longbow would be around 250 meters, sure you can shoot further than that but that will be with lighter flight arrows.


CBR

[Puzz3D]

Quote[/b] (ArseClown @ Jan. 10 2004,13:19)]Hi anvil,

CA uses a system here whereby a unit of distance - say, in designating a weapon's range - is equal to 2cm. So, a range of 50 is equal to a metre, 5000 is equal to one hundred metres, and 6000 - the range of a longbow - is equal to one hundred and twenty metres.
Yes, and 1 map tile = 2000 range = 40 meters. A unit speed of 6 = 1.68 meters per second. The map sizes are:

Small = 20 x 20 tiles
Medium = 26 x 26 tiles
Large = 31 x 31 tiles

This includes the 2 tile red zone around the edge.

[anvil]

Hey,, thanks for the quick response you guys Thats just what i needed to know.. and time is realtime,, correct?


BTW,, the English longbowman,, as i understand were dead on at 100 yds (250-300meters) but this was during practice.. I have read that they would get toghether for practice and diss oneanother for missing the bullseye by inches at that round,, and that was,, as i remember,, 6 or so rounds a minute... However, in a combat situation, this prolly wasn't very likely. so thats prolly the reason for the shortened range in the game.. makes sense to me...


anvil

[desdichado]

Quote[/b] (anvil @ Jan. 13 2004,14:10)]Hey,, thanks for the quick response you guys Thats just what i needed to know.. and time is realtime,, correct?


BTW,, the English longbowman,, as i understand were dead on at 100 yds (250-300meters) but this was during practice.. I have read that they would get toghether for practice and diss oneanother for missing the bullseye by inches at that round,, and that was,, as i remember,, 6 or so rounds a minute... However, in a combat situation, this prolly wasn't very likely. so thats prolly the reason for the shortened range in the game.. makes sense to me...


anvil
Anvil,

Maybe your american yards are longer than ours but 100 aussie yards is about 80 metres, not 250-300.

I would think a skilled archer or crossbowmen could hit a big formation of men at something like 300 yards relatively easy but armour penetration would be reduced and I think they also used lighter arrows for bigger distances.

However, I think the shortened distance is for gameplay purposes only otherwise arhcers could hit the enemy from 3/4 of the battle map away and thats just not cricket.

Perhaps RTW will have some more realistic missile ranges for the much larger maps.

[Puzz3D]

anvil,

I measured the distance in meters by using a stopwatch and the 1.68 meters per second given in the Strategy Guide. I'm not sure where ArseClown got his distance figure, but we both got the same number. So, yes it's real time.

desdichado,

There is a problem with the ballistics in this game because projectiles travel in a vacuum, i. e. there is no drag modelled. That means the projectile's trajectory is a perfect parabolic arc, and the speed and lethality (penetrating power) are constants. It's most noticable with flat trajectory projectiles which travel far beyond their open fire range and retain their full penetrating power for their entire pathlength. The consequence of this constant penetrating power is that you can't make projectiles as effective as they should be at close range because then they will be too effective at long range. The effect is most apparent with guns which only have about a 2x differential in kills/volley between very short range (20 meters) and maximum open fire range (100 meters). The differential in kills/volley is being determined entirely by the accuracy parameter which is a random error added to the initial trajectory. The chance of a hit would be proportional to the solid angle from the weapon to the target. That solid angle is fairly one dimentional for a flat trajectory projectile, and more two dimensional for a high trajectory projectile such as an arrow at max range. The point being that there is no way to properly model projectile effectiveness over varying distance in this game. So, I think the max open fire range and effectiveness at that range for a particular weapon is being chosen as a compromise between long range and short range effectiveness.

[Degtyarev14.5]

Hi Puzz3D,

I dug my distance figure straight out of the game files. I'm not on my own computer at the moment, so I can't check this right now, but look at a file named PROJECTILESTATS.TXT or something like that. It's there... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-yes.gif

WHO CHANGED THE SMILIES?? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-shocked.gif

A.

[Ludens]

Quote[/b] (ArseClown @ Jan. 14 2004,19:29)]WHO CHANGED THE SMILIES?? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-shocked.gif
TosaInu changed them. If you have any comments, or want other smilies, check the thread about this in the watchtower. You can still use the old smilies, just look in the Help Card Emoticons beneath the Enter your Post-field.