Troy

[caspian]

I just saw the trailer last night and it was damn good. City seige, impossibly massive fleets, open field conflict and best of all, total war. Sarissas (?), Cavalry without stirrups(?), Hoplites. I wonder if they can pull this off or like Braveheart or it would be like Joan of Arc, a epic history messed up by Hollywood.

[Revenant69]

I suspect Holywood will manage to find a way to screw this up somehow. Although I like the idea od Brad Pitt being Achilles (hes going to be Achilles right?) The fleet that they showed was a bit unrealistic. Did anyone actually count the number of ships in that scene? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

[Basileus]

Well lets hope it turns out good, the ship scene was quite unrealistic but hey wasnt the entire greek navy army heading towards troy..im preety sure they had a thousand trirems http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wacko.gif

[caspian]

If I recall, the close-up of the trireme carried less than a hundred men, maybe closer to fifty. It was no Man-O-War in Crowe's movie. So I would gather it was pretty accurate since Homer(?) said 'the face that launched a thousand ships'.

Wonder if the god's will be in the movie...

[rasoforos]

does it show more than about 1000 ships?

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]Although I like the idea od Brad Pitt being Achilles (hes going to be Achilles right?)
I DON'T http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-stunned.gif It's DUMB http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif

How about a swedish actor?? That's about as blond has it gets http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-grin2.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

[iostephanos]

Quote[/b] (caspian @ Jan. 13 2004,04:18)]I just saw the trailer last night and it was damn good. City seige, impossibly massive fleets, open field conflict and best of all, total war. Sarissas (?), Cavalry without stirrups(?), Hoplites. I wonder if they can pull this off or like Braveheart or it would be like Joan of Arc, a epic history messed up by Hollywood.
a sarissa? how long was the spear? a sarissa has to be at least two or three times as long as the carrier iirc, and wasn't used until phillip

the spear used until then was called a dory

(did they really try and copy mycenean armor or did the warriors look like the classical model?)

steph

[Count Alfred von Schlieffen]

Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ Jan. 13 2004,06:56)]
Quote[/b] ]Although I like the idea od Brad Pitt being Achilles (hes going to be Achilles right?)
I DON'T http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-stunned.gif It's DUMB http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif
Stop that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-veryangry.gif

Why is everybody always so negative about Brad Pitt because he is like, a sex symbol and stuff? Watch movies like 'Twelve Monkeys', 'Snatch' etc. and you'll see my point: Brad Pitt is a g-r-e-at actor. So stop this insane Pitt-bashing http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif

jerks.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-angry.gif

[Cebei]

Quote[/b] ]Although I like the idea od Brad Pitt being Achilles (hes going to be Achilles right?)

I DON'T It's DUMB

Well, its holywood; Will Smith could have been Achilles... Or Jay-Z.. I agree Schleiffen, for Pitt being a great actor and although I was http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-inquisitive.gif at the beginning, now I think it is nice. Though I havent seen Achilles in my real life, perhaps the history books are wrong, perhaps he really looked like Will Smith. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-party2.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wacko.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-curtain.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-clown.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ] Will Smith could have been Achilles... Or Jay-Z..
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif


NO WAY http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif

[Ludens]

Hoplites? Triremes? Why do people always confuse classical Greece with the period of the Ilias? The sack of Troy was around 1200 B.C.
Only a few people had armor and swords back then because these tended to break a lot. Wars were a mere contest of stone-throwing. Those heroes were just the guys who could afford the expensive bronze weapons, and a set of spares if one would break.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]Stop that

Why is everybody always so negative about Brad Pitt because he is like, a sex symbol and stuff? Watch movies like 'Twelve Monkeys', 'Snatch' etc. and you'll see my point: Brad Pitt is a g-r-e-at actor. So stop this insane Pitt-bashing

jerks....
Back to top

Do I denote a weird agressiveness on your part? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-shocked.gif

I wasn't bashing Brad Pitt. For a guy who is considered a sex-symbol, he happens to be a great actor. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-yes.gif

My problem with the cast is not because of acting habilities. It is because we're talking about a Greek mith.
The cast should consist of actors with the ethnic similarity to the Greeks of 1250BC. Not the ethnicity of Anglo-Saxons...

I think you should be more polite with people, before you start making stupid assumptions. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-angry.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]Hoplites? Triremes? Why do people always confuse classical Greece with the period of the Ilias? The sack of Troy was around 1200 B.C.
Only a few people had armor and swords back then because these tended to break a lot. Wars were a mere contest of stone-throwing. Those heroes were just the guys who could afford the expensive bronze weapons, and a set of spares if one would break.
You are sooooo right, Lord Ludens

The trireme was inventend around 800BC, and these guys have 1000 in 1250BC http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-shocked.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-rolleyes.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

The helmets on 1250BC weren't nothing like those depicted in the movie They weren't integral They should ware Mycenean armour, not Classical Period http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-sad2.gif

Even more ridiculous, the look of weapons and armour: it's the Bronze Age, my friends, not the Iron Age http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-cry.gif

Stupid Hollywood http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif

[Basileus]

stop it guys you are all wrong hollywood makes very accurate war movies thats a fact http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

im preety curious to why they left the tank out which hector was supposed to drive down and charge the greeks with..that would be so kool muaahha

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]stop it guys you are all wrong hollywood makes very accurate war movies thats a fact http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif
ROTFL http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif




Quote[/b] ]im preety curious to why they left the tank out which hector was supposed to drive down and charge the greeks with..that would be so kool muaahha
They would probably use an M1 Abrahams... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wink2.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

[Revenant69]

I totally agree about the mycenean armor and stuff - that was the culture back then and so it should be represented int he movie.

Unfortunately I think if they have done the correct representation, then average people would go: Who the hell are these guys, arent they supposed to be Greeks?

Because the average Joe doesnt know what a Mycenean armor or shield looks like.

Oh and Brad Pitt, I think he is a great actor (just watch Snatch, Fight Club etc) and so is probably a good choice based on his acting skills when compared to Legolas who always looks like this http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-stunned.gif

PS Argggh, If I only had a scanner then I could post the pics of what Mycenean equipment should look like. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-disappointed.gif

[Ashen]

Surely the greeks had triremes? Im pretty sure the Minoans over on Crete had Triremes and they dissapeared as a civilzation around 1200BC anyways; It would seem possible?

[Demequis]

Hey don't knock legolas man. He made the trilogy.

[Revenant69]

Quote[/b] (Demequis @ Jan. 13 2004,15:17)]Hey don't knock legolas man. He made the trilogy.
LOL I know, but you have to admit that he did look like that for the majority of the trilogy.

[altti]

Quote[/b] ]Quote (Demequis @ Jan. 13 2004,15:17)
Hey don't knock legolas man. He made the trilogy.

LOL I know, but you have to admit that he did look like that for the majority of the trilogy.


Casting for films isn't too much different from the assembling of a boy-band: you always have to have that cutie for the screaming little girls. In that particular case possible singing/acting skills are considered just a harmless side affect. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wink2.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Orlando Bloom is not Legolas.

Orlando Bloom: http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-stunned.gif

Legolas: ...for Legolas was fair of face beyond the measure of Men, and he sang an elven-song in a clear voice as he walked in the morning; J.R.R Tolkien, The Return of the King - The Lord of the Rings

[Suppiluliumas]

The movie needn't be historically accurate to the 12 century BC, because Homer's Iliad was not either (ie. 1000 ship fleet, fighting from chariots, etc.) However, it should at least be faithfull to Homer's story. It suspect though that it will deviate greatly from the Iliad and throroughly infuriate me. Why they feel the need to rewrite every story they make a movie about is beyond me, but I'm really getting tired of it.

[Ludens]

What amazes me is that no one has opened the debate about how accurate the Illiad is. I mean: yes, we know there was a city called Troy or Illium, but was really a great city or just a pirate hole? There is a very heated archeological debate going on about this.

[Ikken Hisatsu]

I cant believe you guys are arguing about historical accuracy in a HOLLYWOOD FILM based on a STORY about invincible people and gods written by a storyteller who was BLIND.

FOR GODS SAKE.

[Pindar]

Quote[/b] ]The cast should consist of actors with the ethnic similarity to the Greeks of 1250BC. Not the ethnicity of Anglo-Saxons...



What would that ethnic similarity be pray tell?

[Athénian]

Quote ]The movie needn't be historically accurate to the 12 century BC, because Homer's Iliad was not either (ie. 1000 ship fleet, fighting from chariots, etc.) However, it should at least be faithfull to Homer's story. It suspect though that it will deviate greatly from the Iliad and throroughly infuriate me. Why they feel the need to rewrite every story they make a movie about is beyond me, but I'm really getting tired of it. [/b]

Right...
i would prefer any deviation on arms/armour/ships/walls/chariots etc,over any deviation on the text.

After all,i suppose that everybody would prefer the heroes wearing 4th century breastplates and Corinthian helmets,rather than a regiment of Elves led by Haldir and bearing Galadriel's banner arriving just in time to save the doomed city...
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-no.gif


I,too,have watched a trailer of the movie,but i saw no gods...won't there be any gods in the film?

[Revenant69]

Quote[/b] (Ikken Hisatsu @ Jan. 13 2004,16:35)]I cant believe you guys are arguing about historical accuracy in a HOLLYWOOD FILM based on a STORY about invincible people and gods written by a storyteller who was BLIND.

FOR GODS SAKE.
Homer being blind has nothing to do with his credibility. A friend of my family is a blind computer programmer of exceptional talent and skill. Do you want to continue this argument or have I proved my point?

[Ikken Hisatsu]

where did I say I give a toss about your friend? Im just trying to point out how ridiculous it is to argue about something so ultimately pointless.

anyway- Saw the trailer the other day, looks like it could be the bomb. on another total war note, has anyone seen last of the samurai? im going to see it tomorrow. after watching the preview for it all that was going through my mind was that these people had obviously never played shogun- charging your heavy cav into muskets? using your muskets as a frontline vs heavy cav in a forest? man, theyd get pwned even on easy playing shogun http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-rolleyes.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]What would that ethnic similarity be pray tell?

Dorians, Jonians, Ilyrians, etc...

It is quite well known they didn't had BLONDE hair and BLUE EYES http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-huh2.gif

[Revenant69]

About Homer, my point was to show that being blind does not necessarily have a detrimental effect on ones life and abilites. So thats that.

I went to see The Last Samurai to, well, see the Samurai http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wink2.gif Yes besides silly tactics used throughout the movie, the only thing i enjoyed were the samurai slashing everything to bits. Oh and theose dark skinned dudes were pretty cool too http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wink2.gif Everything else was just Holywood at its best ...err...worst.

[Pindar]

Quote[/b] ]Quote
What would that ethnic similarity be pray tell?


Dorians, Jonians, Ilyrians, etc...

It is quite well known they didn't had BLONDE hair and BLUE EYES

According to Selucus, Alexander the Great had Blond hair and one grey eye and one brown.

What is the basis for this common knowledge claim that the indigenous peoples of the Balkans prior to the Dorian invasions (or even afterwards) were all dark haired?

[Dillinger]

Indeed, I highly doubt that it matters at all to moviegoers what color of hair the hero has, and so it matters very little to movie companies was color of hair the hero has. Indeed, there is also a little thing called hair dye and colored contacts.

[caspian]

Hollywood is known for taking the 'artistic license' way too far. Even Lord of the Rings suffered quite a few changes by the writers/producers so that the film would be more marketable(in their opinion). So we should expect a few historical inaccuracies in Troy. We can only hope that the movie would have the same essence or spirit that made the Iliad immortal, but I think that's asking for too much.

But all im waiting for is when they would storm the walls of Troy. I dont want to watch a siege in parts while I have to endure watching two weeping Hobbits and a shrunken, big-eyed freak play at being heroes in between scenes.

And, of course, Achilles' and Hector's duel. I cant recall if Ulysses/Odysseus would make an appearance, it was he that came up with the wooden horse idea was it not?

[Pindar]

Quote[/b] ]I cant recall if Ulysses/Odysseus would make an appearance, it was he that came up with the wooden horse idea was it not?

That's correct. The Horse isn't actually in the Iliad thought not doubt the fall of the city will appear in the film.

[Papewaio]

LOTR was produced in NZ by a NZ director with an international cast. If anything it is one of the more faithful reproductions of a book that I have seen.

I think a director such as Peter Weir or Ridley Scott could make very credible movies within the Hollywood machine.

Remember though the Illiad is about as historical as LOTR, so don't get to caught up in dropping of 'facts' for movie flow.

[Maedhros]

In defense of Peter Jackson, and in defiance of my own cynicm, I tend to think changes to the text were done for production reasons.

There was so much history implied by the book, I think it is hard to do that in a movie.

I also thought Orlando Bloom did a fantastic job as Legolas.

[katar]

Quote[/b] ]That's correct. The Horse isn't actually in the Iliad thought not doubt the fall of the city will appear in the film.



saw the trailer, i could have sworn that the horse was in it.

any chance of getting tho old smilies back, these ones really do suck. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-blank2.gif

[rasoforos]

Quote[/b] (Pindar @ Jan. 13 2004,20:07)]
Quote[/b] ]Quote
What would that ethnic similarity be pray tell?


Dorians, Jonians, Ilyrians, etc...

It is quite well known they didn't had BLONDE hair and BLUE EYES

According to Selucus, Alexander the Great had Blond hair and one grey eye and one brown.

What is the basis for this common knowledge claim that the indigenous peoples of the Balkans prior to the Dorian invasions (or even afterwards) were all dark haired?
Ok some of us greeks have blonde hair and blue eyes ( for some reason i haid blond hair until 4 yrs old which turned into black later...go figure). This though does not mean that a blond blue eyed greek looks like an anglo saxon. From all the people i ve seen in this movie it looks liek they are acting in a Scandinavian epic or something. Its totally ridiculous. They should use people who look more closely to the greek morphology.

Concerning Iliad accuracy ,it was mentioned that 1000 ships are inacurate and also chariots are innacurate. Well guys, these ships were small , small enough to be able to be drawn into the shore by the use of hand power only. Concerning that soldiers and support troops from all of greece was dispatched and that many of these ships were carrying supplies , weapons ,etc i do not consider the number unrealistic. If they were triremes i would.
Concerning Chariots, well of coursethey were using chariots , its been depicted in pottery paintings from that time. Chariot use was not used as a seperate weapon though , usually only the royals were using them to move fast from one place of the battle to another and pursue enemies.

[Brutal DLX]

Of course a movie for the broader audience will have to deviate from the original story a bit. But I think the director has shown before that he is able to keep the basic things in the film and try to be true to the story.
However, that would include divine encounters and interventions on both sides, and I really think the horse will be in it, just for the dramatic and visual effect, and, let's face it, the city must fall after all.

[Count Alfred von Schlieffen]

Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ Jan. 13 2004,12:42)][quote]Stop that

Do I denote a weird agressiveness on your part? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-shocked.gif

I wasn't bashing Brad Pitt. For a guy who is considered a sex-symbol, he happens to be a great actor. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-yes.gif

My problem with the cast is not because of acting habilities. It is because we're talking about a Greek mith.
The cast should consist of actors with the ethnic similarity to the Greeks of 1250BC. Not the ethnicity of Anglo-Saxons...

I think you should be more polite with people, before you start making stupid assumptions. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-angry.gif
Herr Aymanr de Bois Mauri

I have humbly accepted your explanation, although have not detected any apologies for not phrasing your comments in the right way, therefore tempting me to lose my temper. But not to despair, I, Count von Schlieffen, will forgive you and not send the Prussian hordes after you.

It is, therefore, in turn, that I offer my apologies, as is expected of a warrior whose ancestors showed their cunning at such occurences such as Rossbach and Torgau. For I have misunderstood your comments, and did not show the ability of deducting that was expected of me.

Therefore my humble apologies, and I'll offer you a ceasefire and an alliance, so we'll be able to tackle our enemies together.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-yes.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-blush.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-balloon.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-beam.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

To Pindar:


Quote[/b] ]According to Selucus, Alexander the Great had Blond hair and one grey eye and one brown.

What is the basis for this common knowledge claim that the indigenous peoples of the Balkans prior to the Dorian invasions (or even afterwards) were all dark haired?
But Selucus was a macedonian, he wasn't familiar with blond hair. If he saw a Scandinavian, he would probably say he had white hair. For the Period, in Grece, a light brown hair was blonde. Most historians agree on this...

Blue eyed? ROTFL http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif



Caspian wrote:


Quote[/b] ]Hollywood is known for taking the 'artistic license' way too far. Even Lord of the Rings suffered quite a few changes by the writers/producers so that the film would be more marketable(in their opinion).
Very true words. Most of what they changed spoiled the film. It didn't improve it... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-cry.gif



To Papewaio:


Quote[/b] ]Remember though the Illiad is about as historical as LOTR, so don't get to caught up in dropping of 'facts' for movie flow.
What matters is the respect for the original work, that's what I was expecting in LOTR, respect for Tolkien. Not that stupid mindless mushiness... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-angry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-veryangry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif



To Katar:


Quote[/b] ]any chance of getting tho old smilies back, these ones really do suck. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-blank2.gif
The old smiles are still available. Just press Help Cards: Emoticons, under the reply screen... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif




To Count Alfred von Schlieffen


Quote[/b] ]Herr Aymanr de Bois Mauri

I have humbly accepted your explanation, although have not detected any apologies for not phrasing your comments in the right way, therefore tempting me to lose my temper. But not to despair, I, Count von Schlieffen, will forgive you and not send the Prussian hordes after you.

It is, therefore, in turn, that I offer my apologies, as is expected of a warrior whose ancestors showed their cunning at such occurences such as Rossbach and Torgau. For I have misunderstood your comments, and did not show the ability of deducting that was expected of me.

Therefore my humble apologies, and I'll offer you a ceasefire and an alliance, so we'll be able to tackle our enemies together.
Respected Count Alfred von Schlieffen

I wasn't aware that my comment wasn't clear for everyone. My apologies for not beeing explicit enough. But I thought everyone would understand the joke. In future, I will act more prudently.

Ceasefire accepted. Alliance accepted.

BTW, your Prussians wouldn't dent my defenses... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wink2.gif

[the Black Prince]

as tooddyseus and the horse being in it, well yes, oddyseus is there played by orlando bloom, andifyou check out the photo's section of www.troymovie.com it could be a large frog, but i'm fairly sure its meant to be a horse

[Dhepee]

Quote[/b] (the Black Prince @ Jan. 14 2004,10:06)]as tooddyseus and the horse being in it, well yes, oddyseus is there played by orlando bloom, andifyou check out the photo's section of www.troymovie.com it could be a large frog, but i'm fairly sure its meant to be a horse
Sean Bean is Oddyseus and Orlando Bloom is Paris.
Orlando Bloom is a little too boy-band to play Oddyseus, but he'll make a great Paris. As I recall Paris was good looking but relatively worthless - and didn't he start the whole mess in the first place by kidnapping Helen.

PS: This post gave me a post count of 666, I feel like playing some Devil rock. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-devil.gif

[Red Peasant]

Lol The Great Hair Debate

My tuppenny-worth: Homer said Menelaus had red hair

It's difficult for us to know what the 'average' Greek of the c. 1200BC period looked like. Modern Greeks are descended from many different peoples who came to speak Greek and absorb Hellenic culture, so it's almost impossible to offer a valid comparison after more than three millenia.

[Red Peasant]

As for being faithful to the sources, well this film is called 'Troy', not 'The Iliad', and the writers could take inspiration from the ancient Greeks. Those inventive chaps often had dozens of variants of all the tales surrounding the Trojan War (Herodotus relates a few) usually in total disagreement with Homer and each other.

The screenwriters can take their pick. I just hope it's a decent film but it won't be 'The Iliad' by a long way...... *dreams* ....maybe one day.

[katar]

accuracy..... in the movies. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-rolleyes.gif

only selecting actors based upon certain physical characteristics is silly, if that was the case then the hobbits in lotr would have been played only by very short people with exceptionally large hairy feet

i`ll just wait and see the movie. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wink2.gif

[Ludens]

Quote[/b] (Ikken Hisatsu @ Jan. 13 2004,23:36)]Has anyone seen last of the samurai?
There is a discussion about it going on the monastry, and perhaps in the tavern. That are the places were you usually find information about movies.

[Pindar]

Quote[/b] ]But Selucus was a macedonian, he wasn't familiar with blond hair. If he saw a Scandinavian, he would probably say he had white hair. For the Period, in Grece, a light brown hair was blonde. Most historians agree on this...


So, Macedonians had no idea what blond hair was? This is an interesting statement. I am sure you believe this, but perhaps you should reconsider the merits of this view.

You did not answer my earlier question about the basis for the 'common knowledge' notion that the peoples of the Balkans 3000 years ago never had blond hair.

[rasoforos]

Quote[/b] (Red Peasant @ Jan. 14 2004,09:50)]Lol The Great Hair Debate

My tuppenny-worth: Homer said Menelaus had red hair

It's difficult for us to know what the 'average' Greek of the c. 1200BC period looked like. Modern Greeks are descended from many different peoples who came to speak Greek and absorb Hellenic culture, so it's almost impossible to offer a valid comparison after more than three millenia.
I like to see people with so correct and verified ideas http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-rolleyes.gif
People have been trying to discredit hellenic coninuity for decades now. too bad it always backfires...

The Hellenes are a people who can still understand their language of 2000-2500 years ago. They still dance the dances Homer describes in the Iliad. They keep the customs. Perhaps you could learn a bit more about Greece.
Considering genetic purity. I (and most greeks abroad) can see someone i ve never met in the road and i can tell if he is Greek or not. Which other european nation can claim to achieve that?

To all: To believe that there were no greeks with blond hair and blue eyes 3000 years ago is really naive. I sometimes think some people think we are africans or something. Come and pay a visit to Greece and you will see blonde people , the difference is that they do not look Slavic blond or Skandinavian , Anglosaxon blonde , usually the skin complexion is a lot different. The problem with the movie is that these people look northern european and not greek.

[makkyo]

I would like to know if the gods duke it out as said in the Iliad. Imagine a bunch of mortals trying to take down a god. Reminds me of The Lord of the Rings when the aliance of men and elves tried to fight Sauron. I'm imagining something like that if the gods of Greece fight eachother and man, none able to die.

[Red Peasant]

Quote[/b] (rasoforos @ Jan. 14 2004,20:01)]
Quote[/b] (Red Peasant @ Jan. 14 2004,09:50)]Lol The Great Hair Debate

My tuppenny-worth: Homer said Menelaus had red hair

It's difficult for us to know what the 'average' Greek of the c. 1200BC period looked like. Modern Greeks are descended from many different peoples who came to speak Greek and absorb Hellenic culture, so it's almost impossible to offer a valid comparison after more than three millenia.
I like to see people with so correct and verified ideas http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-rolleyes.gif
People have been trying to discredit hellenic coninuity for decades now. too bad it always backfires...

The Hellenes are a people who can still understand their language of 2000-2500 years ago. They still dance the dances Homer describes in the Iliad. They keep the customs. Perhaps you could learn a bit more about Greece.
Considering genetic purity. I (and most greeks abroad) can see someone i ve never met in the road and i can tell if he is Greek or not. Which other european nation can claim to achieve that?

To all: To believe that there were no greeks with blond hair and blue eyes 3000 years ago is really naive. I sometimes think some people think we are africans or something. Come and pay a visit to Greece and you will see blonde people , the difference is that they do not look Slavic blond or Skandinavian , Anglosaxon blonde , usually the skin complexion is a lot different. The problem with the movie is that these people look northern european and not greek.
I suggest you are being overly, though maybe understandably, touchy dear sir. I merely surmised the difficulty of knowing much of the physical attributes of the 'average' (whatever that means) Greek of over three millennia ago. A not unreasonable thing to say, surely. I do not wish to be dragged into a fruitless and discordant discussion on 'race' and injured national sensibility.

Pax. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-thumbsup.gif

PS Apologies for any offence caused, it was certainly unintended. In fact, I took the whole 'hair' thing as a bit of joke. I mean, if Menelaus 'did' have red hair, it doesn't mean he was Scottish, does it? All a bit surreal really

edit for addendum.

[LadyAnn]

The one with a face that launch a thousand ships, was kidnapped by the Trojans, leading to the 10 year siege of Troy. So there must be a thousand ship in that scene or I'll ask for my money back :)

Annie

[Aleksandr Nevsky]

Quote[/b] ]I would like to know if the gods duke it out as said in the Iliad. Imagine a bunch of mortals trying to take down a god. Reminds me of The Lord of the Rings when the aliance of men and elves tried to fight Sauron. I'm imagining something like that if the gods of Greece fight eachother and man, none able to die.

Jeez, they better be...I mean the whole war...the heroes...everything has to do with the Gods I mean the war is Zeus' way of punishing Paris' Troy for breaking the rules of marriage and hospitality by taking Helen. And the whole idea of the Iliad is that Zeus decides to take Achillies plead to punish Agamemnon and therefore makes the Greeks suffer too.

The gods do so much as triggers in the story line...and they just wonderful characters themselves.

That is if the film is based on the Iliad or just on the story of Troy itself...that is the caveat...if it is based on just the story of the Trojan War then they could do away with the gods...still it would be far less a story without out them.

[Aleksandr Nevsky]

Is there a way for me to edit my post if I am a junior patron?

Anyway...I just wanted to add that it is Wolfgang Petersen who is directing. He made Das Boot The best and most historically accurate WWII movie ever. I know he is hollywood now but hopefully his pedigree will carry over.

[Pindar]

Quote[/b] ]I suggest you are being overly, though maybe understandably, touchy dear sir. I merely surmised the difficulty of knowing much of the physical attributes of the 'average' (whatever that means) Greek of over three millennia ago. A not unreasonable thing to say, surely. I do not wish to be dragged into a fruitless and discordant discussion on 'race' and injured national sensibility.

Pax.

PS Apologies for any offence caused, it was certainly unintended. In fact, I took the whole 'hair' thing as a bit of joke. I mean, if Menelaus 'did' have red hair, it doesn't mean he was Scottish, does it? All a bit surreal really


Well said.

[Revenant69]

Quote[/b] (Aleksandr Nevsky @ Jan. 14 2004,20:40)]Is there a way for me to edit my post if I am a junior patron?

Anyway...I just wanted to add that it is Wolfgang Petersen who is directing. He made Das Boot The best and most historically accurate WWII movie ever. I know he is hollywood now but hopefully his pedigree will carry over.
You have to wait till you are promoted to Senior Patron and above in order to be able to edit your posts - do not despair, someone will notice you and give you a promotion.

I agree Das Boot was a wicked movie, so I guess the fact that Troy will be made by the same director is a big bonus.

Time will tell.

Rev

[Ikken Hisatsu]

to be honest i think adding in gods will make it a bit cheesy.

[Count Alfred von Schlieffen]

Will Kevin Zorbo be in the movie? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-gossip.gif

[Court Jester]

I'm really looking forward to this film as I love this period. Artistic licenses and all.

The producer's casting notwithstanding, I recall that Alexander the Great established many Alexandrias on his march across the Persian empire. A historian, Michael Wood, had a series on the BBC a few years ago where he tracked Alexander's route. In Afghanistan, there is a tribe (was it the Hazaras?) that claims direct lineage from Alexander's settlers. The interesting thing is, many of them have blue eyes, not a common eye colour in Central Asia. If true, there must have been some blueys in or around Macedonia, either that or they were an early Varangian Guard


http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

[.:vVv:.Monkey]

awww u guys are gossiping worse than old ladies http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-gossip.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-clown.gif

It's a movie not a documentary on PBS/History channel. Chicks are gonna watch it for Brad Pitt and other muscular dudes while the guys are gonna watch it for the battle scenes and special effects....It's allll good http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-party2.gif

[Athénian]

The tribe at Afghanistan who claims lineage from Alexander's Greeks is called Kalas.

...And there HAVE to be the gods in the movie... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-sunny.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Welcome to the ORG, Athénian http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif



Quote[/b] ]It's a movie not a documentary on PBS/History channel.
That's precisely our point. We don't want to be entertained, we want to feel fulfield when seeing a movie. For that to happen, they have to take into consideration ALL of what we've talked about.

[Brutal DLX]

I'm with Monkey on this one.
The movie should try to be accurate and leave in as much of the story as possible, but some dramatic adaptions and cuts necessarily have to be made. The choice the scriptors and the director finally made will be open to discussion, of course.
True exactness should be reserved for documentaries only.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]The movie should try to be accurate and leave in as much of the story as possible, but some dramatic adaptions and cuts necessarily have to be made. The choice the scriptors and the director finally made will be open to discussion, of course.
But quite a few films, claiming to be faithfull to the original books, have contradicting dialogs. PJ's LOTR saga for instance.

Do you agree that it was a necessary move?

I dont... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-no.gif