Hospitaliers?

[PrinceBrobex]

Hi y'all,
I notice that when playing the Sicilians that I keep getting Templars when I crusade, despite the fact that Malta is suppossedly reknowned for their Knights of the Hospital of St. John. Anyone else having this happen or is it just the luck of the draw. Thanking you in advance, I have the pleasure to remain, etc, etc

[Phatose]

All that phrase means is that any hospitallers built in Malta will have +1 valour. It has no effect on the actual building of them. I don't have VI, so I can't 100% confirm, but it sounds like the Sicilian use Templars as their crusader units, which means you can't get hospitallers in a crusade. To make use of that bonus, you'd probably have to be the italians, who do get hospitallers in their crusades.

[PrinceBrobex]

Thanks. Don't know why I want them but I do.

[iostephanos]

Quote[/b] (PrinceBrobex @ Jan. 13 2004,23:06)]Hi y'all,
I notice that when playing the Sicilians that I keep getting Templars when I crusade, despite the fact that Malta is suppossedly reknowned for their Knights of the Hospital of St. John. Anyone else having this happen or is it just the luck of the draw. Thanking you in advance, I have the pleasure to remain, etc, etc
strictly though, the knights hospitaller don't show up in malta until the turks take rhodes...

maybe the factions able to train the hospitallers at least needs to be modded? (not sure about templars or santiago)

the knights had tongues like english, french, etc, and this is how the brethren were divided, so maybe everyone that had a tongue should be able to train them (though the majority were french)...

otoh, after acre fell, they went to cyprus (1291), and rhodes (1310), so maybe they should only be trained there...

i don't know, just thinking out loud

steph

[Bezalel]

Didn't the knights Hospitaller get Malta after rhodes, like steph said? I think it was in like 1510 or sometime around there, so that isn't really in the scope of the game.

[Plantagenet]

The Italo-Normans who conquered Sicily also conquered Malta (1090) and installed a Count there. Possession of Malta led to the Norman occupation of Tunisia in the mid-1100s.

The Hospitallers took Rhodes in 1309 and lost it in 1523. They then got Malta from Spain in 1530, in return they had to help protect Tunisia.

Generally speaking, the Hospitallers were predominant in Italy, Sicily, & Apulia-Calabria, as well as in Toulouse & Provence (Southern France), while the Templars were more powerful in Northern France, England, etc. The original Hospital was founded by sailors/merchants from Amalfi in Southern Italy; the Templars were founded by knights from Champagne. Also, the senior leadership of the Hospital were commonly Italian/Provencal, whereas that of the Templars were usually (Northern) French.

So if the King of Sicily can only have one Order in MTW, it should be the Hospitallers, not the Templars. Also, since the Kings of Sicily used Malta as a launcing pad into Tunisia, it fits well with the fact that the Hospitallers got Malta in return for helping hold Tunisia. Not exactly historically accurate, but certainly fits alot better than Templars on Malta or in Tunisia. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-grin2.gif

[Plantagenet]

Quote[/b] (PrinceBrobex @ Jan. 13 2004,22:06)]Hi y'all,
I notice that when playing the Sicilians that I keep getting Templars when I crusade, despite the fact that Malta is suppossedly reknowned for their Knights of the Hospital of St. John. Anyone else having this happen or is it just the luck of the draw. Thanking you in advance, I have the pleasure to remain, etc, etc
You could just use GnomeEditor to change which Order you get. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wink2.gif

[Kulgan]

Quote[/b] ]You could just use GnomeEditor to change which Order you get.

And ' hand ' yourself the right crusaders offcourse, I would do this if I were sicily

[Bezalel]

Din't a grandmaster (Raymond du puy or something) send the hospitaller order towards military rather than just helping others like gerard wanted?

[Plantagenet]

Quote[/b] (Bezalel @ Jan. 14 2004,14:14)]Din't a grandmaster (Raymond du puy or something) send the hospitaller order towards military rather than just helping others like gerard wanted?
Yes. The Templars were founded from the start as a military order, but the Hospitallers weren't. Raymond de Puy, the 2nd GM (1120-), replaced the Augustinian rule with the Benedictine, and followed the Templar example by making it a military order.

[PrinceBrobex]

Didn't they actually run a hospital in Jerusalem for ailing crusaders? Didn't know that they switched their monastic rule. Amazing defence against the Turks in the 16th century: 300 knights versus, I think, 20,000 Turks.

[Plantagenet]

Quote[/b] (PrinceBrobex @ Jan. 14 2004,17:24)]Didn't they actually run a hospital in Jerusalem for ailing crusaders? Didn't know that they switched their monastic rule. Amazing defence against the Turks in the 16th century: 300 knights versus, I think, 20,000 Turks.
The original Hospital of St. John was founded near the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, mainly to care for the pilgrims that Italian merchants were bringing to Jerusalem. By the time Gerard died, they were operating a chain of hospices & hospitals in the Holy Land. Under the next GM, Raymond, all major ports of embarkation to Outremer had hospitals, so now they took up the military role, ostensibly to protect pilgrims on their journey, to defend their hospitals, and to guard the Holy Sepulcher itself.