Worst Vice?

[ichi]

Which type of vice makes you want to assassinate, try for treason, disband, drop an inquisitor, or send the guy alone against thousands of angry enemy soldiers?

Mine is Outlaw, Brigand & Thief, Smuggler types. Off with their heads.

ichi

[Obex]

Cowards. The quickest way to find your men transfered to a new general, then to be disbanded.

[Math Mathonwy]

Cowards Incest and pervesion, gah i dont want my gens being Micheal Jacksons, it really makes me mad when its my king too. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif

[pdoan8]

Actually, the alcoholic one is not that bad. It's bad at the start. However, when the general becomes dead drunk, he only loses 20 health. He will get all of his command and accumen back.

Good runner is bad for the AI. Human player can avoid getting that vice.

The corruption, gambling and such negative income modifier vices are the worst. Hard to avoid in the richer provinces.

[Brutal DLX]

Acumen lowering ones are nasty, but usually I can replace them when it gets very bad. The worst for me is to get good runner and its advanced levels on a decent general or even your king. It's hard to keep your troops on the field, yet you have to go with him anyway if good generals are scarce.

The descriptions of the alcoholic ones are fun, especially on the final level..From time to time they put him on his horse to move around a bit... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Basileus]

Well you forgot to add Inbred which i sthe worst i think..so i think i´ll vote for Gah ichi Gah heh http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-tongue2.gif

[Lord Wolfric]

I wanted to say perversion, just because, but I'm going to have to go with coward. A cowardly commander is utterly useless on the battlefield no matter how many stars he has, because he drains the morale of your entire army, causing your mightiest forces to fold like card tables and flee the field like scampering pansies. I either disband them or give him a desk far from the battlefield.

[Hetman_Koronny]

*bows*

Coward vice, definitely. Even a high star general of mine will always get assassinated, burned or send for a suicide attack mission as I detest cowards http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-veryangry.gif. The problem becomes more complicated when you king/heir gets the vice though.

My second choice would be thief and the related vices, which really drive me crazy later in any game.

*bows*

[HawaiianHobbit]

I voted GAH because I don't remember ever having at least half of those vices.

[Ludens]

Quote[/b] (Basileus @ Jan. 16 2004,10:59)]Well you forgot to add Inbred which i sthe worst
Crack Brained, Strange, Odd Number of Toes

The sure signs of a genetic degenerate http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wink2.gif

[ichi]

Quote[/b] (Basileus @ Jan. 16 2004,02:59)]Well you forgot to add Inbred which i sthe worst i think..so i think i´ll vote for Gah ichi Gah heh http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-tongue2.gif
Whenever I think of inbred, I always think about the Odd Number of Toes vice.

Darlene: Cletus, why'd we have to park so close to your parents?

Cletus: Now Darlene, they's your parents too

ichi

[DeadRunner]

weak principles

is bad to see a army be bride by the enemy

[vlad_demstra]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif cowards... i empire is full of them right now cuz of a german/french assult.. i had to run like little girls.... bleh... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-sad2.gif

[.:vVv:.Monkey]

Yeah the cowardly generals are the worst No matter how many stars he has, once he has that -6 good runner morale penalty, it becomes hard to control your troops when the Royal Knights are charging at your lines.

Sooo, that brings up the question..How do you get rid of a general like that? Is is better to frame him with a spy or DISBAND his unit? I guess when u disband there's a chance he may be hired my the enemy but does that really happen when u're playing the AI?

Thx
-monkey

[Finn]

Quote[/b] (.:vVv:.Monkey @ Jan. 16 2004,17:31)]Yeah the cowardly generals are the worst No matter how many stars he has, once he has that -6 good runner morale penalty, it becomes hard to control your troops when the Royal Knights are charging at your lines.

Sooo, that brings up the question..How do you get rid of a general like that? Is is better to frame him with a spy or DISBAND his unit? I guess when u disband there's a chance he may be hired my the enemy but does that really happen when u're playing the AI?

Thx
-monkey
with that heavy of a morale penalty, i think i'd WANT the AI to use him ;)

[Gregoshi]

I'll agree with the coward V&Vs mainly because they are so easy to come by - one mistake can erase years of stunning victories by a general. Kinda like a reputation: it is a lot of work to build up a good one and oh so easy to destroy.

[vlad_demstra]

very much so finn :) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-thumbsup.gif

[DeadRunner]

once i had a general with good atack and eager to run
=P

[Duerfian]

I dislike unhinged loon. That is like a recipe for rebellion at some point.

Good runner is annoying but makes it fun. Having an ûber-general with no risk no matter what you do would be no fun.

[ChaosLord]

I'd have to say it was the inbred vices. Chinless Wonder/Odd Number of Toes. Not so much because of the - stats, but because it comes at random. I can have a guy for 20 years then boom, suddenly hes a chinless wonder. I mean, he woke up one morning and was inbred? Pride/Alcoholic/etc... I can understand, but that one always bugs me.

[bighairyman]

i also have to go with the coward vices. either they die or get sent somewhere far from my empire.




Quote[/b] ]Sooo, that brings up the question..How do you get rid of a general like that? Is is better to frame him with a spy or DISBAND his unit? I guess when u disband there's a chance he may be hired my the enemy but does that really happen when u're playing the AI?

don't disband, if it' s good unit, ie- royal knights ect. just drop assains, spies, and inquiziters on it at the same turn. one of them is bound to get him http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

[Aleksandr Nevsky]

Perversion, it always seems that my princes are perverted, and even though it isn't all that bad stat wise, it is just kind of a strange vice to have.

[Morcini]

Hehe...my favorite is the Almohad one...I havn't played in awhile...but they believe they got pregnant by an elephant http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif

[Gregoshi]

Hello Morcini.

FYI, you will have to trim your sig picture. Forum guidelines restrict sig pictures to 500 wide by 150 high and 10kb file size max. We must have compassion for those Org patrons who are stuck with dialup connections.

Thank you.

[Voigtkampf]

Quote[/b] (Gregoshi @ Jan. 16 2004,12:31)]I'll agree with the coward V&Vs mainly because they are so easy to come by - one mistake can erase years of stunning victories by a general. Kinda like a reputation: it is a lot of work to build up a good one and oh so easy to destroy.
Oh so very true…

But, as in real life, your reputation will often suffer even though one may be not responsible for anything inappropriate that has been done or said.

I still can't make my peace with the fact that so many V&V are random; you are an extremely pious man yet you endorse yourself in feasts and women, and you are so fat you can't get up on your horse without help. Huh?

[Icerian Rex]

The two annoyances I have are A) The fact that once your general is a coward he can't win back any of his honor... As a result, I'll normally keep my generals as far from the action as possible, leaving them only to chase down routing units, and even then I'm wary of the enemy.... All it takes is one time, surrounded by two spear units, and BOOM You've got a coward. At least let the poor dude redeem himself

Second annoyance are my generals that are both unbribable and of dubious principles. One way or the other, if you please.

[ichi]

Quote[/b] (Icerian Rex @ Jan. 17 2004,06:03)]The two annoyances I have are A) The fact that once your general is a coward he can't win back any of his honor... As a result, I'll normally keep my generals as far from the action as possible, leaving them only to chase down routing units, and even then I'm wary of the enemy.... All it takes is one time, surrounded by two spear units, and BOOM You've got a coward. At least let the poor dude redeem himself

Second annoyance are my generals that are both unbribable and of dubious principles. One way or the other, if you please.
I must agree. The inability to redeem oneself should be made possible. Contrary attributes should cancel one another. Right now in a Hungarian Campaign I have a guy who is a Man of Principle AND Weak Principles, another who is a Steward and Lazy.

Gah

The early voting seems to indicate that cowardice is most despised, along with the those vices that come from having a family shrub instead of a family tree. I knew there would be some dislike of the perverts, which has little effect on the game, so it must be a true dislike.

ichi

[Lord Wolfric]

Quote[/b] (voigtkampf @ Jan. 17 2004,00:44)][quote=Gregoshi,Jan. 16 2004,12:31]I still can't make my peace with the fact that so many V&V are random; you are an extremely pious man yet you endorse yourself in feasts and women, and you are so fat you can't get up on your horse without help. Huh?
I'm sure many of us have seen examples of this in real life; i.e., a deeply religious man who visits strip clubs or has a drinking problem. Or a man of strict moral standards who has a very violent temper. These contrasting contradictions are what give characters depth and texture.

I've seen Popes with the Perversion vice; in fact, during that campaign it seemed every general in the Italian Penninsula was a Pervert. I've also had generals with maximum ratings in both Piety and Dread. Other interesting combos are Killer Instinct/Approachable Manner, Chinless Wonder/Philosphically Inclined http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-clown.gif , and Blackmailer/Irredeemably Witty.

[Somebody Else]

The vice that annoys me the most has got to be Doubtful Courage - I don't like having to risk my general in battle at all, yet I'm forced to otherwise a great big morale dampener comes in. Not good if for some reason my general unit is something crappy like FMAA (like the early English high command generals seem to be Strongbow FitzGilbert etc.) as they cannot hold up in a fight later on, and can't really make it up by chasing down routers.
The same happens in Napoleonic mod, where the general units are so ridiculously small and chances of getting shot are quite high, so one is forced to keep the general back... Wellesley with doubtful courage

[PseRamesses]

Through history all great men had their vices which is ok but cowards I usually execute. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif

[Finn]

I started a new early campaign with the english yesterday and early on before i'd even fought single battle or anything, one of my generals gained a captured v&v ? anyone seen this before? i thought they were only got by the general actually being caputured by the enemy in a lost battle?

[Gregoshi]

Maybe a princess http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-gorgeous.gif captured his heart http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-heart.gif....

[HawaiianHobbit]

Quote[/b] (Finn @ Jan. 18 2004,07:19)]I started a new early campaign with the english yesterday and early on before i'd even fought single battle or anything, one of my generals gained a captured v&v ? anyone seen this before? i thought they were only got by the general actually being caputured by the enemy in a lost battle?
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-yes.gif I've seen that happen many times to my Prince's who have only come off age and never even been in a battle.

[Aleksandr Nevsky]

Well my dislike for perversion is just that...It certainly is a historical thing so there I have no problem with it in the game, it just makes me wonder about the strength of my Royal Line when all my heirs exhibit it.

Stat wise, cowardice is the worst to have. Eager to Retreat kinda made me angry. One of my best Generals, 8 valor, held Cenriu (sp?) the southwest most province on the British Isle map in VI. His force was very small and depleted, a relief army was on its way, but the Irish attacked before it could arrive. I had to retreat from two provinces before my reinforcements could arrive. He gained the Eager to Retereat vice which puts a penalty to morale (-2 I think). Of course his high valor and some of his other virtues sort of cancel that vice out...it still kinda sucked. He is still an awesome general though. The funny thing is he gained Famous Last Stand or something like that about 3 turns earlier when I actually fought with his little army against a huge Irish force, and kicked their butt. So my general is eager to retreat, and also known for his greatly outnumbered last stands...strange. Still gaining that vice is a better outcome than any of the cowardice vices I may have gotten if I had actually fought and he was routed.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]Maybe a princess http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-gorgeous.gif captured his heart http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-heart.gif....
ROTFL http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

Good one, Gregoshi http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-thumbsup.gif

[The_678]

I'll have to agree with most here about the cowards part...but I voted for Perversion just because it's sooo wrong and seems that sometimes half of your generals are perverts.

p.s. I like all the new smilies. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[Mummer]

Argh Perversion, my heirs ALWAYS seem to be unhinged loons and have perversions, what is wrong with my blood line? I can't tell you how many times I have sent my heir on suicide attacks, because he had no accumen, no loyalty, and no command, and had the afore-mentioned vices. AHHHH Sometimes I wish I could name one of my generals as heir.

[Lo Rez]

i'll go with the inbred Crack Brained, Strange, Odd Number of Toes ones, can make for some hard years if your royal family is a little 'close'

i always make a concerted effort to seek out allies princesses to keep the royal line.. 'fresh'
also has the added bonus of having princes in waiting when they take the throne http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-yes.gif

some times tho the ai's pretty damn keen to hang on to their ladies.. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-computer.gif

[Myrano]

I dislike the alcoholic ones, mainly because I watch my generals get worse and worse... -1 command, -1 command -1 acumen, -2 command -2 acument.... argh

The funniest one is Inbred (I think that's the title) just cause I like the description: Most men manage to have eight great-grandparents, but this man has been badly short-changed...

[DeadRunner]

2 vices that are always to me are drunk(to minimal and to the maximum )and adultery.

i hope that the women that he eat was nice

[Doug-Thompson]

Where's total loon, which is my most disliked?

I guess it fits in with crack-brained and so forth.

[insolent1]

Captured is an earned vice that is recieved when the general is captured by the enemy & then ransomed back it goes on to tortured after he has been captured twice or more. I think there are one or 2 historical generals who get the captured vice.

[insolent1]

My most hated v&v is either hedoinist which goes on to gluttony or the random odd number of toes that a general picks up when he has spent 20 years not been inbred http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif
The drinker vice is not to bad once you let the vice continue onto severe alcholic as they get all their command back but are -20 health so be careful how you use him in battle.

[Monk]

Doubtful courage, it comes from keeping your general behind the lines during a battle and not sending him into the thick of it all. In it's second stage i beleive this vice is really bad, second only to the good runner series. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-no.gif

[insolent1]

Quote[/b] (Monk @ Jan. 20 2004,12:41)]Doubtful courage, it comes from keeping your general behind the lines during a battle and not sending him into the thick of it all. In it's second stage i beleive this vice is really bad, second only to the good runner series. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-no.gif
I think your thinking of not so brave where the general rarely sees combat but is in battles. Doubtful courage is part of the good runner vice.

[Monk]

Quote[/b] (insolent1 @ Jan. 20 2004,13:56)]
Quote[/b] (Monk @ Jan. 20 2004,12:41)]Doubtful courage, it comes from keeping your general behind the lines during a battle and not sending him into the thick of it all. In it's second stage i beleive this vice is really bad, second only to the good runner series. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-no.gif
I think your thinking of not so brave where the general rarely sees combat but is in battles. Doubtful courage is part of the good runner vice.
Hah your right, simple mistake there. thanks for noticing http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Ashen]

one of my kings was once a pervert and incestuous. Mistake merrying off a princess and not looking lol. he later became a king, and reigned for 20 years married to his sister. Odd things can happen in spain.

[Lord Rom]

The perversion of prefering young boys to women. ugh If that general has a lot of stars he gets volunteered to lead the next crusade if not he gets sent to some worse fate.
Rom

[Count Fudgula]

I had a good general who ended up with some kind of valour reducing vice (maybe cowardice, but I think it was something that he developed rather than earned, I can't quite remember).

This had the combined effect of him arriving on the battlefield with a valour of -1. He still had good command stats so I figured I'd try and whip up some mighty deed for him to perform to make his valour more useable.

Battle commenced and everything was going along nicely. My general (in a unit of High Royal Knights) was sweeping around the central melee with the rest of the cavalry to try to cause some havok. Normally I'd be tentative to send my general in first, but I knew I'd have to generate some valour for him. So I sent him in at the head of a wedge formation to try to improve his own personal stats, while the rest of the mounted troops held off a little. He tore through the enemy lines like a great big giant shreddy thing. The opposition started falling apart and the general started to mop up. His valour hit +2 after carving through everyone.

Unfortunately, at this point I decided to be greedy and let the general take on all the fleeing opposition on his own (while still in wedge formation). A unit of arbalesters paused in their flight, spun around, and loosed off one volley before the knights hit. They killed one guy only before disintegrating, my general. Bah

So it seems it's easy to get the vices, but don't overdo trying to get rid of them

[insolent1]

Quote[/b] (Count Fudgula @ Jan. 22 2004,05:37)]I had a good general who ended up with some kind of valour reducing vice (maybe cowardice, but I think it was something that he developed rather than earned, I can't quite remember).

This had the combined effect of him arriving on the battlefield with a valour of -1. He still had good command stats so I figured I'd try and whip up some mighty deed for him to perform to make his valour more useable.

Battle commenced and everything was going along nicely. My general (in a unit of High Royal Knights) was sweeping around the central melee with the rest of the cavalry to try to cause some havok. Normally I'd be tentative to send my general in first, but I knew I'd have to generate some valour for him. So I sent him in at the head of a wedge formation to try to improve his own personal stats, while the rest of the mounted troops held off a little. He tore through the enemy lines like a great big giant shreddy thing. The opposition started falling apart and the general started to mop up. His valour hit +2 after carving through everyone.

Unfortunately, at this point I decided to be greedy and let the general take on all the fleeing opposition on his own (while still in wedge formation). A unit of arbalesters paused in their flight, spun around, and loosed off one volley before the knights hit. They killed one guy only before disintegrating, my general. Bah

So it seems it's easy to get the vices, but don't overdo trying to get rid of them

It was the hedonist vice & had probably gone onto gluttony -4 valour & -10 happiness.
Never use your general in a wedge charge as he will be the first one to engage & his chances of falling in combat are very high in the wedge formation he is also the primary target is he is under missile fire.

[Count Fudgula]

Yep, those vices sound familiar, they must be the ones.

Normally, I wouldn't have tried anything so risky, but I was feeling a bit overconfident, and it was (kinda) working up until the point it all went horribly wrong

So, in summary, I don't like the gluttony vice (a lot).

[Teutonic Knight]

perversion for me, I don't want persons who might choose an alternative lifestyle which I must respect runnin' my army

[Lord Wolfric]

Ho boy. Here we go... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-builder.gif

[Teutonic Knight]

fine. I'll edit it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif